UK in/out referendum on the EU (Brexit vs Bremain)

Yeah, I fet it well represented my outlook on life

azriel wrote:My gawd, if there were the Klu Klux Klan in that auditorium he would have been Kentucky fried Chicken by now !!! 

Azzy, the ones who cheered and stood up and applauded Farage were members of the British Ku Klux Klan.

the people who cheered Farage were Marie Le Penn = KKK French style.

Someone sent me this and I thought it was funny.

http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/news/a46301/boris-johnson-pornhub-brexit/

{{{Meltdown in Labour continues and it looks like it will go to a leadership contest- which in my view Corbyn is likely to win again if they cant come up with a way to keep him off the ballot. 200 Scottish Labour MP's councillors and party activists also wrote an open letter urging Corbyn to leave, and in typical schizophrenic Scottish Labour style 80 of them also wrote to the now ex-Shadow Scottish Secretary berating him for resigning form Corbyn's cabinet.- You couldn't make this up.

And whilst the Westminster Parties traded insults and demanded each other quit their jobs Surgeon was in Europe talking to European Commission president Jean-Claude Juncker, EU Parliament president Martin Schulz, as well as Gianni Pitella, the leader of the Progressive Alliance of Socialists and Democrats in the European Parliament.

The result of most talks is 'sympathetic' but they view resolving the issue as an internal UK matter. No surprises there.

She has also exposed where the real difficulties will be- Spain- again no surprise they have an eye on Catolinia- are protesting Sturgeon is being given an audience at all - "Spain opposes any negotiation by anyone other than the government of United Kingdom. I am extremely against it, the treaties are extremely against it and I believe everyone is extremely against it. If the United Kingdom leaves... Scotland leaves."

No surprise but still disappointing- much, much more disappointing was France- "The negotiations will be conducted with the United Kingdom, not with a part of the United Kingdom". They also insisted there should be no advance deal with Scotland.

So much for the Auld Alliance! }}}

Petty - do you think that Scots would still be in favour of independence if indyref2 if the EU were to stick it's fingers up at the UK by sticking it's fingers up at Scotland at the same time and suggest it would be a slow, painful process without much if the benefits the UK currently enjoys after 40 years?

I could see the next decade as a EU attempt to quash the resistance and try and tie the politics up even more closely if they can avoid any other exits.

{{{Good question Lance- not one I think there is an answer to yet. It all depends on so many outside factors. How is the Eu going to react to Brexit, what sort of trade deal will the UK government get, will the economy do better or worse in the longer term as a reuslt of being out of the EU.

But as I said before Sturgeon is canny- yesterday she got the Scottish parliament to officially back this little fact finding trip to the EU, and she got the whole Chamber to back her bar the tories (because Ruth Davidson is smarter than most). As contained in the motion was a bit about how independence is on the table as a last resort option and as a bargaining chip- the Tories tried to get that bit of wording changed but failed, so they abstained on the vote.

What Davidsons saw the others didnt is that a part of what Sturgeon is doing on this jaunt for is to sound out if an independent Scotland would get a warmer welcome from the EU than they implied we would last time out. She doesnt want to run a second campaign without having the Eu issue sorted at least behind the scenes, before she starts.
She still plans to try to find a third way- but she knows perfectly well the odds of that are long but thats ok as no politician ever looked bad trying to do the right thing and failing beuase of outside influences. And more importantly for the SNP by the time she is finished al these talks and negotiations (and we are just at the start) she will have a very good idea of where the EU would stand if she does call a 2nd referendum.
But in my judgement no EU deal no 2nd referendum, or at east no chance of a win- as it would mean leaving another trading partner, RUK, without the certainty of going straight into anohter with the Eu. Sturgeo knows this and its most likely the real impetus behind her current flurry of activity- she only has a window of opportunity before someone at Westminster gets back in control and stops her doing a run-around of the FO.}}

http://www.mediaite.com/online/people-are-clinging-onto-this-insane-theory-about-david-cameron-and-the-eu-brexit-vote/

Boris Jonson and The Poisoned Chalice. The Guardian.

''If Boris Johnson looked downbeat yesterday, that is because he realises that he has lost.

Perhaps many Brexiters do not realise it yet, but they have actually lost, and it is all down to one man: David Cameron.

With one fell swoop yesterday at 9:15 am, Cameron effectively annulled the referendum result, and simultaneously destroyed the political careers of Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and leading Brexiters who cost him so much anguish, not to mention his premiership.

How?

Throughout the campaign, Cameron had repeatedly said that a vote for leave would lead to triggering Article 50 straight away. Whether implicitly or explicitly, the image was clear: he would be giving that notice under Article 50 the morning after a vote to leave. Whether that was scaremongering or not is a bit moot now but, in the midst of the sentimental nautical references of his speech yesterday, he quietly abandoned that position and handed the responsibility over to his successor.

And as the day wore on, the enormity of that step started to sink in: the markets, Sterling, Scotland, the Irish border, the Gibraltar border, the frontier at Calais, the need to continue compliance with all EU regulations for a free market, re-issuing passports, Brits abroad, EU citizens in Britain, the mountain of legislation to be torn up and rewritten … the list grew and grew.

The referendum result is not binding. It is advisory. Parliament is not bound to commit itself in that same direction.

The Conservative party election that Cameron triggered will now have one question looming over it: will you, if elected as party leader, trigger the notice under Article 50?

Who will want to have the responsibility of all those ramifications and consequences on his/her head and shoulders?

Boris Johnson knew this yesterday, when he emerged subdued from his home and was even more subdued at the press conference. He has been out-manoeuvred and check-mated.

If he runs for leadership of the party, and then fails to follow through on triggering Article 50, then he is finished. If he does not run and effectively abandons the field, then he is finished. If he runs, wins and pulls the UK out of the EU, then it will all be over – Scotland will break away, there will be upheaval in Ireland, a recession … broken trade agreements. Then he is also finished. Boris Johnson knows all of this. When he acts like the dumb blond it is just that: an act.

The Brexit leaders now have a result that they cannot use. For them, leadership of the Tory party has become a poison chalice.

When Boris Johnson said there was no need to trigger Article 50 straight away, what he really meant to say was “never”. When Michael Gove went on and on about “informal negotiations” … why? why not the formal ones straight away? … he also meant not triggering the formal departure. They both know what a formal demarche would mean: an irreversible step that neither of them is prepared to take.

All that remains is for someone to have the guts to stand up and say that Brexit is unachievable in reality without an enormous amount of pain and destruction, that cannot be borne. And David Cameron has put the onus of making that statement on the heads of the people who led the Brexit campaign.''

petition is now

4,070,000

{{{{There is some merit in that argument. My only proviso on it really is that Cameron has never shown himself to be that politically astute so far.
But they are absolutely right that the Brexit side, Farage excepted, are trying very hard not to trigger Article 50 }}}

yep. I think that article has hit the nail on the head.

What a fucking mess.

Just like the remainers claimed, the leavers don't have a Plan. What an enormous wank this All is.

And Farage. What a fucking grinning dangerous wanker he is!

Shame, Britain - shame!

And Scotland, I feel for you. Yet again the English have fucked you up the arse.

Political pundit made an interesting observation on one of our to shows on public tv.

She stated that the Brexit vote was the best thing to happen (generally speaking, 'for democracy') because two thirds of under 25's didn't turn up. So, basically leaving it to all the "coffin dodgers" to vote out of Brexit. The younger generation will experience the biggest negative impact of Brexit. So, yes, my generation sold them out due to our xenophobic fifties mentality, but the youngsters, by not taking responsibility, shot themselves, and their kids down the track, in the foot. Yes, we've heard versions of this, but the clarity and annoyance and her optimism about getting youth back inside the political system, coming out of this pundit's mouth, struck home with me.

What can you do ? You give people a vote, you allow them to pick someone, you give them a date to decide by & call it democracy. When it all goes tits up then you moan your balls off, so whats the answer ? People cant be trusted, too dam fickle, like spoilt brats at Christmas in a toy department only this toy department isnt full of teddy bears & dolls. Its full of twists & traps & penalties & suffering. Its our right to be British, our constant moaning & flicking from one side to the other. I think most people are sheep like & follow the bigger herd, afraid of being the Loser. Being in with winners puffs your chest up & you feel good tho gawd knows why, ask them & see what answer you get ! Havent a fooking clue ! just like being on a winning side, whatever it is. We are fond of taking items back to shops & asking for a refund as we've decided blue isnt our colour anymore, well, cant go back to EU now asking to be allowed to play cuz Fritz & Ivan arent coming out !!

Oh I say sweety darling is that for me ?

Boris not running! I told you, all care no responsibility! Gutless about leading Britain into his brave new world. Why? Because he didn't actually have any plans for a brave new world, did he! Because he was grandstanding but never guessed the Brexit vote would win. He guessed wrong like Cameron did. Like most 'sensible' folk did. Yep, we weren't sensible were we.

Orwell, what are we to do in this God awful calamity ! Will this affect her Maj's Royal Tours ? At least we can brew our own Champagne these days, no need for that fancy overpriced French stuff. Boris is a bit of a plonker isnt he

Will Boris now be a wrecker? Sorry - he had already become one... At least, one populist has gone bottom up. Next, let's hope Trump goes the same way...

azriel wrote:Orwell, what are we to do in this God awful calamity ! Will this affect her Maj's Royal Tours ? At least we can brew our own Champagne these days, no need for that fancy overpriced French stuff. Boris is a bit of a plonker isnt he

All I know is, we have an election Downunder on Saturday. I have an emergency suitcase packed and an airplane ticket to Britain (just in case the wrong mob win here!), but now I'll have to think up somewhere else to flee to... America's out of the question...

Champagne? A lot of it? In your boudoir Azzy... ?

But will I be safe in the UK when food runs out and you start eating each other... Look I know you'd never eat me (like a female Black Widow spider) unless you were really desperate... but I expect starvation...

And I don't want to exaggerate or sound hysterical, but Odo Banks predicts, as British society descends into hungry chaos, there will undoubtedly be  an invasion of zombies or enraged Scots, or both, if they're not actually the same thing...