Petty's Purist LotR Edits [3]

What the holy heck is THAT ?! might look ok for "star Wars" ? but Elrond ?

Norc wrote:things i am glad didn't make the final cut:

  bugger me thats a girlie hairdo

I just watched the Hobbit edit tonight. Some quick thoughts while it's fresh in my mind:

I liked the muted colours with the lower red/blue, mostly... It gave everything a more mythical look and made the CGI less glaring. However it gave an unhealthy green to certain plants which was occasionally jarring to my farmer's eye, particularly in the shire and particularly while my eyes were adjusting to it. Might it be possible to phase it in gradually?

I LOVED the darker goblin tunnels! Aside from being truer to the book, it eliminated a thousand distractions (like the insane engineering) and replaced it with a spooky atmosphere which put the focus back on the main characters where it belongs.

For the most part the story flowed very well.  The number of PJ fabrications you were able to remove and still keep the smooth flow is amazing. No need to name them all.

As much as I like the dragon scene from the intro, I don't think it belongs where you put it. It breaks the flow. It's awkward. If it belongs anywhere, it belongs with the Misty Mountains Cold scene when they're reminiscing. Ideally it would have a voice-over like the death of Azog (I love saying that! DEATH OF AZOG! DEATH OF AZOG! DEATH OF AZOG! DEATH OF AZOG! DEATH OF AZOG! DEATH OF AZOG! DEATH OF AZOG! ) or perhaps faded into a dream between the fire and the embers out the chimney. But that's such a nice scene anyway one hates to muck it up.

The travel to Rivendell seems better paced than last time I saw it. Did you add some extra scenery bits? I still wish there were teasing, playful elves as they entered the valley rather than this warlike bunch, but that can't be helped I guess.

 I liked the inclusion of Christopher and Kate as just cameos to suggest a meeting without explicitly showing it. It's much more evocative and true to the spirit of the book, if not the letter. I'm OK with the inclusion of the "He gives me hope" scene, but I wonder why in your judgement it made the cut.  The scene will stand as it is, but the story continuity is still a little rough here. It would be nice if Bilbo or the dwarves could at least be made to acknowledge that Gandalf is up to something, even obliquely, just to tie it together a little more solidly.

I know there's more, but it's late and I've got another long day ahead of me. Harvest in a little over a week.

[edit- by the way, I seem to have figured out how to open multiple files in VLG so they flow together. At least it worked once on the 3rd try, so htere's hope!  ]

Glad you got to see it David.

"Might it be possible to phase it in gradually?"

Probably. I will take another look at it- its a 'rough edit' in that the final one will be edited from the Extended edition when its out so most of the colour changes in this are a bit rough in that I didnt spend too much time on them knowing I was going to be doing it all again anyway.

"The number of PJ fabrications you were able to remove and still keep the smooth flow is amazing."

I have to admit even I was surprised at how it was possible to largely just take PJ's additions straight back out with no harm to anything, indeed the opposite, it left the story of Bilbo behind which all it should be.

"I like the dragon scene from the intro, I don't think it belongs where you put it. It breaks the flow. It's awkward."

I agree and have been relooking at it- my first very rough cut I left it out altogether and that is still my preference, visually Id rather the viewer does not see anything of the Erebor region until the story gets there (the same thinking I used for LotR's edit), it was put back into this edit as it was the most common bit of feedback I got regards things that people wanted back in- but I rather feel I was right the first time and it doesn't belong.

"it belongs with the Misty Mountains Cold scene when they're reminiscing."

I believe it was Mrs Figg suggested that before, but for some technical and some artistic reasons I could not get it to work without loosing what it is about that scene in the film that makes it one of the best bits.

"I love saying that! DEATH OF AZOG! "

Does feel good doesnt it!  

"Did you add some extra scenery bits?"

Yes, I used some of the long shots from the warg chase and put the 'travelling' music over it from post Rivendell to give the impression of more of a journey.

"I'm OK with the inclusion of the "He gives me hope" scene, but I wonder why in your judgement it made the cut."

Not for any merits it has but purely in the name of cinematic flow- without there is no explanation at all for why the dwarves leave without him- its there purely to show that Gandalf has remained behind in Rivendell to talk to the Council, the actual content of what is said is irrelevant for that purpose, and whilst I dont like it is not as bad as any single piece of dialogue from the WC meting which was the only other choice of footage.

"It would be nice if Bilbo or the dwarves could at least be made to acknowledge that Gandalf is up to something, even obliquely, just to tie it together a little more solidly."

That would be nice but without reshooting the film Im not sure there is much I can do.

"Harvest in a little over a week."

Best get watching some Who first then!  

Best get watching some Who first then!

I know! Would it be bad to go straight to Dinosaurs? 

I would say yes it would be bad, not because there is anything directly spoilery in it, but because how the story plays out from the Doctor's perspective is part of an ongoing thing that follows through thematically from previous eps and into the one immediately afterwards.

I suggested putting the dragon scenes where Thorin is standing on the Cliff looking broody while Balin does his voice over thing, only you swop Azog stupidity for Smaug blowing up Erebor. Bilbo and the Young Dwarves getting to hear the history of the destruction of Dale and Erebor instead of the gung-ho battle of Azkabanthingie, you substitute Balin talking about Azog and put in the Erebor voice over about Schmaug

I like that idea Figg- but who does the voice over for that bit? I cant remember? Is there even one?
Unless its Balin might not make sense is what I am thinking.

Pretty sure the prologue is narrated by old!Bilbo.

Edit:

Spoiler:

That definitely wouldnt work then as obviously young Bilbo wont know about all that before he has even got there.

Yeah. Is it possible to take out the narration somehow? Or maybe edit around it? I don't remember how many of the dragon scenes have words over them as opposed to just sound effects.

It can be possible sometimes Eldo- the problem then is what good is the footage? There is no other narration to take to replace Bilbos with, and without it, its just a series of images with no explanation of why they are being shown.

I see what you mean.  It's a shame, though maybe there will be some dragon flashback footage in DOS that actually shows more of Smaug than just his tail.

Im still not convinced its needed at all.
The start of the book, although they mention Smaug is at least, if not more focused, on their treasure.
Im quite happy for Smaug just to get his mention at the table causing Bilbo to faint without having to show a flashback to his attacking the mountain.
Smaug will come back into the story more as it focuses in on the quest (or it would do if PJ werent making it)

Fair points. I can't really disagree with that. I'd rather see a Smaug flashback than an Azanulbizar(?) one, but no flashback works just as well I suppose.

One think I'm almost certain you will get eventually is a shot of Azog's head rolling when the 3rd film comes to climax, probably by the sword of Thorin. Granted it will be old Thorin, but I have faith in your editing skills to give that scene the final closure it deserves!

Can't believe I just got rick rolled for the first time in years I just realised I've missed it

Me too, Ringo. Me too.

Well I just finished watching The Hobbit edit. I took notes as I was watching so I have some suggestions. (Pardon the lack of capitalization/100 percent proper grammar as I was typing as I watched. Hopefully I will be able to keep these thoughts organized.)

These are suggestions of things that could be cut even further:

1. cut directly from "home is now behind you" to arrival at trollshaws/ruined farm. removes azog and radagast entirely.

2. cut from "i must speak with lord elrond" to "it was kind of you to invite us to dinner" take out the bombastic/militaristic entrance entirely (this also removes the mention of the orcs).

3. cut from either end of "moon runes" or dwarf antics to next morning when they leave (I don't feel the saruman/galadriel cameos are necessary if the white council isn't going to be shown at all. I'm sure rivendell can be extended with the bilbo/elrond moments once the EE is released

4. cut from end of walking montage (start of storm, "we must find shelter" can be included) to entering the cave "looks safe enough" cut out the stone giants entirely

5. we can't have bilbo say "thorin said i should have never come" we don't hear or see a situation where thorn might have said this. either find a way to cut the line or cut bilbo's attempt to leave the company entirely.

I really liked smooth, very subtle edits.

For example (these are the one's that I noticed, any others I didn't notice, and it just goes to show that they were, arguably, unnecessary in the first place):

1. cutting out "axe or sword" banter between bilbo and thorin

2. cutting out extraneous troll antics: "that's my grog" , "'who's that?' 'no idea.'" "burt look what's come out of me 'ooter."

3. cutting right after goblin king's "bring up the bone-breaker" to take out the azog stuff, back to bilbo, but how did bilbo get down to gollum's cave? I liked that you cut out bilbo's confrontation with the goblin, but that scene shows us how he got down to the cavern.

Some things were rough around the edges, but with those moments there's really no way of smoothing them out.

I liked that you put the flashback Smaug stuff in during the dinner scene (which is where it should have been in the first place). Not every film needs a prologue, and (for me personally) it's starting to evolve into a cliche. I was thinking maybe overlay the attack on Erebor with the dwarves singing? (the Misty Mountains song, not the plates song  ) This could work (although it might be a cliche in itself).

When you fade to white is there a way to make the fade only occur within the frame, so the fade doesn't overtake the black bars? I find it really jarring when I have a set aspect ratio and then it suddenly changes.

I was surprised how much you were able to salvage of the warg attack.  Although I did see Ass-hog (my new nickname for Azog  ) in one of the shots.

For a final note, while Riddles in the Dark is supposed to be literally in the dark I found it difficult to watch in the edit because of the tinting or shading or whatever was used. Some shots were half faces and were difficult for me to focus on. But that's just me.

Overall. Wow! Great work on this, it moves by fairly quickly (as it should) and gets to the Carrock in about 90 minutes. That cuts out a good 70 minutes (not counting credits) from the original.

I look forward to viewing the LOTR edits in the following weeks. (Although I may be a little more harsh with them as I actually kind of like those films!  )

Watched your book 1 edit again tonight, and a couple of questions came to mind.

Spoiler:

Other than that, I enjoyed this a lot as always, and I'll move on to book 2 tomorrow perhaps

Woop, simultaneous posting! I put in a spoiler in my post since you're going to watch these edits too, bungo. Seems like this is the right time for me to rewatch them, always more fun to have them fresh in mind for discussions with others who watch them

Thanks for watching and taking the time to make notes and comment Bungo.

I will take each point in turn.

1. I hadnt thought of that. I had been thinking it gave some sense of traveling a distance, however when I most recently watched it I was thinking it might be better to get to the trolls more quickly.
So I will try this, I think it would work. (Obviously the storm , losing the horses and food and being wet, hungry, miserable and spotting the trolls fire in the woods would have been ideal but sadly PJ forgot to read that bit or something)

2. Would that not leave Elrond and a bunch of elves popping out of nowhere immediately following dialogue saying he is not there?

3. I left it in purely for narrative reasons within the film itself. People should be able to watch the film still without any book knowledge, and I felt a nonbook viewer would be puzzled by the dwarves and Bilbo leaving with no Gandalf or mention of him until they reach the cave. I dont like it, but it seemed the lesser of two evils.

4. I did try that and there are major sound problems regards it- the opening bit on the mountain is very loud, effects and music wise, and the scene immediately outside the cave entrance the opposite, the two next to each other jar terribly and pull you out the scene.
I originally had the stone giants scene even briefer but it had the same jarring problem which is why I extended it again to include the final hit of the giants punch up to form a narrative backdrop to them reaching the cave.

5. I may well lose this scene when it comes to the final edit. Its mainly there now because there is so little focus on Bilbo during these sections. It was as much to give him a scene as anything else.
Although its not as bad as many as it least does have some semblance of a theme from the book, home, even if it has been over emphasised and hijacked.

Thanks again for commenting and I look forward to hearing your thoughts on LotR's.


Ringdrotten- if memory serves the line is under the 'The Fellowship of the Ring' title visual.
I had to lose the title so also the sound under it sadly.

Re-Arwen at the Ford- I loathe the dialogue they gave her to say, simple as that (and the delivery too in fact) every time I hear her say it I both gringe and want to punch her in the face. Which isnt the mood I want that scene to generate in me, so Id rather no dialogue at all.
Alsso by altering the elvish earlier the reason for the Flood is explained, so I didnt need her pseudo prayer either.

The flashback did work very well where it was, but I wanted it where the book has it, as I feel you should now about Gollums history at that point.
I also feel the viewer comprehending Smeagol to Gollum gives added emotional weight to Frodo desperately trying to give the Ring to Gandalf immediately afterwards and to his decision to take it himself.
But it is too long and needs edited down still.

"I had to lose the title so also the sound under it sadly"

You mean the "The Fellowship of the Ring" thing had to go? Why is that (out of curiosity)?

Well otherwise Id have the Two Towers title at the start of Book 4 (the middle of the Two Towers!) and Id have the Return of the King titles over the approach to Isengard before Two Towers has even finished.
So for consistency sake I removed the Fellowship of the Ring title too.

Ah, of course, I didn't think about that. Good thinking, then