Re: More Hobbit pictures [2] SPOILER THREAD

[chris63]

Whi is there a 'g' rune on Bilbos door? Gandalf left the mark for 'burglar seeking employment' didnt he?

Could be wood worm

[Pettytyrant101]

Yeah in PJ's head eating his brains!

[chris63]

[Eldorion]

Concept art for the Elven-king's hall.

[Pettytyrant101]

Bit hard to tell- the general vibe feels ok to me- although from this pic I am not really getting the cavern feel.

[azriel]

Ive just been on The Hobbit forum & was reading about Trolls, whether they should talk or not ? Are they dressed or not ? I remember In LOTRs that when they saw "Mr Bilbo's Trolls" (as said by Sam) the trolls were niki-naki-nude. In the Hobbit book they are clothed. Also when,(in The Hobbit) Gandalf,Bilbo,Thorin & co. reach the stone door of a cave, they use the key that "William" (troll) had dropped. Inside they found lots of clothes,but,(as said in the book) "too small for Trolls, I am afraid they belonged to victims". That suggests to me the trolls were clothed, or why say to SMALL for trolls if trolls didnt give a hoot about size,seeing if they didnt need them ? Also I hope PJ doesnt make the Trolls purse/wallet look anything like this ?

[Pettytyrant101]

This makes me want to scream with crabbit rage!



Bilbo defending a fallen Thorin- in film 1, with Sting? Oh PJ- you arse!

[Mrs Figg]

whens this supposed to happen? and do we know its Thorin?

[Pettytyrant101]

Speculation is its towards end of film 1- possibly the warg attack.
Typical PJ- the hero always has to be proactive in every scene- was same in LotR's- even something as simple as two orc battalions getting tangled up over a bridge crossing allowing a chance for escape he altered so they escaped because of Frodo's brilliant fight plan- you know, the one where they call each other names and sound just like hobbits and draw every orcs attention to themselves.

[Mrs Figg]

nope.

[Pettytyrant101]

The scene where Frodo and Sam, disguised as orcs are mistaken as deserters and end up getting taken along with the orc battalion.
PJ changes the clash between the two orc groups into an 'inspection' for some reason (like halfway through a march across Mordor orcs are going to stop to make sure everyones buttons are shiny ) and instead of them escaping in the moment of chaos whilst the two orc groups fight over who gets to cross first he has Frodo tell Sam to 'start a fight'- Sam then starts to call Frodo names (in a Shire accent and sounding nothing like an orc) -they start to fight drawing everyone around thems attention to them and then the 'Inspector' comes towards them but is interuptted by the orc with the whip and then they escape.
Remember it now? You may have difficulty due to its stupidity and awfulness, I know I do.

[CC12 35]

Pretty certain that's what happens in the book lol

[David H]

Even when I read LotR the first time as a kid I thought that the orcs-through-Mordor part of the story felt really contrived. I just couldn't imagine that two little hobbits could put on armour and pass for orcs without detection.

That was one of a handful of scenes that I often skipped when rereading the books because for me it broke the magical spell of belief.

I'm not saying PJ's is any more plausible, but I don't think it's much less.

[Pettytyrant101]

Fair enough Dave, but putting aside the merits of the scene for the moment- the point I was making was in the book its a chance event allows them to escape, in the film they have to be proactive in bringing about their escape. Which is a pity as Tolkien probably speaks from some experience on the battlefield of the role chance plays in who lives and who dies- life is like that.

Carly heres what happens in the book-

'Despretely Sam tried to help him (Frodo) and hold him up, though he felt himself he could hardly stay the pace much longer. At any moment now he knew that the end would come.....then just as he was putting his hand to the hilt of his sword, there came an unexpected relief....some way in front, before the gate at the bridge-end, the road from west converged with others coming from the south, and from Barad-dur. Along all the roads troops were moving....so it chanced that several companies came together at the road meeting...At once there was great jostling and cursing as each troop tried to get to the gate and the ending of their march. Though the drivers yelled and plied their whips, scuffles broke out and some blades were drawn. A troop of heavy armed uruks from Barad-Dur charged into the Durthang line and threw them into confusion.
Dazed as he was with pain and weariness, Sam woke up, grasped quickly at this chance, and threw himself to the ground, dragging Frodo down woith him. Orcs fell over them snarling and cursing. Slowly on hand and knee the hobbits crawled away out of the turmoil, until at last unnoticed they dropped over the further edge of the road......Sam felt that they ought at least to get further away from the highways and out of range of torchlight.
'Come on, Mr Frodo!' he whispered. 'One more crawl, and then you can lie still.'
With a last despairing effort Frodo raised himself on his hands, and struggled on for maybe twentyyards. Then he pitched down into a shallow pit that opened unexpectedly before them, and there he lay like a dead thing.'

Clearly in the book it is chance (Tolkien uses the word twice) not a silly plan to start a fight which helps them here- and clearly they are in no physical condition to even do so anyway. In fact nowhere in the Frodo/Sam mordor section in PJ's films to I get anything like the sense of how bad it is for them as conveyed here and elswhere in the text. Its one of the most disappointing sections of the film for me.
PJ's Mordor looks like quite a nice place for a day out. Blue skies, a distinct lack of poisonious fumes, ash and slag heaps- which is odd as not only is that how the book describes it- a veritiable living hell- but its how Boromir describes it in PJ's version at the Council of Elrond- maybe PJ had forgotten by the time he got to Rotk?

[Eldorion]

PJ's Mordor looks like quite a nice place for a day out. Blue skies, a distinct lack of poisonious fumes, ash and slag heaps- which is odd as not only is that how the book describes it- a veritiable living hell- but its how Boromir describes it in PJ's version at the Council of Elrond- maybe PJ had forgotten by the time he got to Rotk?

Lolwut.

http://framecaplib.com/lotrlib/html/episodes/images/rotk/rotk2007.htm
http://framecaplib.com/lotrlib/html/episodes/images/rotk/rotk2008.htm
http://framecaplib.com/lotrlib/html/episodes/images/rotk/rotk2032.htm

[RA]

Uh, I don't know. I think Frodo and Sam looked almost done for in Mordor.
They were really thirsty and tired. Mordor looked hot and barren. It seemed horrible. I thought RoTK conveyed the feel of Mordor well enough.

[RA]

Uh, I don't know. I think Frodo and Sam looked almost done for in Mordor.
They were really thirsty and tired. Mordor looked hot and barren. It seemed horrible. I thought RoTK conveyed the feel of Mordor well enough.

[Pettytyrant101]

I thought Elijah was terrible as 'weak/thirsty' Frodo, all he does it look a bit tired and fall over a lot. I dont get any of the sense of despair imposed from the environment as I do in the book.

Eldo Ive got more cloudy stormy skies outside my window right now- and this is just a normal morning and I dont have a volcano out back spewing smoke and fumes!
I mean look at not only how light the sky is (why do the orcs even have torches?) but the air is completely crisp and clear- a lovely day for a nice stroll to my eyes.

[Pettytyrant101]

Just for the sake of comparison some shots from my own edit of Mordor- not perfect by far but then I shouldnt have needed to do anything to do it in the first place if PJ hadnt make look so bright and unforboding!










Comparing them like this its obvious just how bright, sharp and clear everything in PJ's Mordor is.

[halfwise]

Never realized Scotland was such a hellish place.

[Norc]

Never realized Scotland was such a hellish place.

I like pi's take, I can actually see what's going on. I hate when videos are so dark I can hardly see anything.

[Eldorion]

Yeah, I have to agree with Norc. I have a lot of respect for your edits, Petty, but I can barely see anything in your Mordor shots. I'm willing to make the trade-off of lighting in favor of visual clarity. Same thing with Moria, which is way brighter than it "should" be.

[Pettytyrant101]

Depends on your TV settings - not to dark on mine. Perhaps adjust a little- my brigthness is at 75 and contrast at 60 (out of 100) and its certainly not to dark to see whats going on.
Plus modern film makers seem afraid of darkness (except Lynch and whoever made Seven) when older films were not.
Plus stills are tricker than moving images where the eye is drawn to focus on movement.
PJ's just looks like a brightly lit, slightly overcast day to me- not the hell Boromir or the book describe- it just doesnt look that bad a place.

ps have you given the edits a go yet Eldo?- if not perhaps you should give them a go then decide when they are 'in motion' if its too dark for you- you may find when you see it in action its not as difficult to discern as in stills and that it hads a lot of atmosphere.

[Eldorion]

I haven't downloaded them, but I did watch some of the samples you put on YouTube. I really liked your darkening of the Dead Marshes and I agree that that scene was greatly improved by it even though I'd never really thought about the lighting before you brought it up. However, while PJ's Mordor is more brightly lit than I had imagined from reading the book, I think it is still suitably hellish.

[Pettytyrant101]

Give em a go Eldo- you know you want to- and really, not just being defensive (well a bit) but stills and watching the scenes in context is quite different on the eye.
Plus the youtube uploads were a different version with completely different filters and in low quality not HD.