Re: The Bigger, Badder, Even More Serious Thread [2]

[halfwise]

Trying to outrun a storm only using sail - that can't have been a good feeling. Glad at least most were rescued.

[David H]

I've done it quite a few times in bigger weather than they saw, and so had Robin, but the pumps are crucial. You just can't keep water from coming on board.

There's a free surface correction to center of gravity that gives you a much higher virtual CG due to the "slosh" factor of unbaffled fluids. It can be deadly if you can't dewater.

By the accounts I'm seeing, it sounds like she capsized while they were still boarding the rafts. And of course the captain remained on board till the last....

[David H]

[Pettytyrant101]

Bollocks. Grim news.

[Mrs Figg]

I am so sorry to hear that Dave. Its a very sad tragedy. I have been thinking about them and the poor ship a lot since I heard the news.

[Pettytyrant101]

Every so often I read a news story that makes me sick to my stomach at humans and makes me think that not only is there no hope for the pathetic, unpleasant human animal, but they we dont deserve any either:

"A couple arrested in Pakistan on suspicion of killing their 15-year-old daughter with acid say they carried out the attack because she looked at a boy.
The girl, known only as Anusha, was found to have burns over 60% of her body. Her father Muhammad Zafar told the BBC what happened:
"There was a boy who came by on a motorcycle. She (Anusha) turned to look at him twice. I told her before not to do that, it's wrong. People talk about us because our older daughter was the same way," he said.

Her mother Zaheen described the aftermath: "She said 'I didn't do it on purpose. I won't look again.' By then I had already thrown the acid. It was her destiny to die this way."

Anusha's father is reported to have taken his daughter inside, beaten her and then acid was poured over her with the help of his wife."- BBC

'Her destiny to die this way?'
Destiny? NO! it wasnt f***ing destiny- it was you beating the crap out of her before pinning her down and murdering her with acid- you'r own daughter! And you burnt her to death in the most horrifying painful way imaginable.
Really, I despair at our race - our annihilation would probably only increase the universal harmony quota. We must be the stupidiest creature to have ever evolved anywhere.

[azriel]

These stories are happening to often,not only in Uk but around the world,& its the most sickening,disgusting,stomach churning thing someone can do to another person. But when you do that,to YOUR OWN CHILD, Im lost for words ! Well, in my book,heres a good case for "an eye for an eye", no dispute,God said so, Ive noticed these stories are more prevalent with Asian societies.They are so vehement about Honour & respect,yet they do the most awful things to admonish it. I cannot forsee ever being devoid of emotion towards my own kids,yet these people do this in a blink of an eye!, its almost as tho they are a totally different species of animal.

[Mrs Figg]

Thats sick and twisted. If thats what 'honour' is, they dont know the meaning of the word. Honour does not include murdering an innocent child for looking at another human being. I am appalled and disgusted by these cretins. What a shit culture they have. shit. a pile of steaming shit.

[azriel]

At least "shit" can be used as fertiliser, Mrs figg, what can these mentally ignorant individuals be used for ? Ah,I know...Animal Testing ! then poor little fluffy-wuffys can be left alone ! (that goes for BIG fluffy-wuffys to !)

[David H]

These stories are happening to often,not only in Uk but around the world,

Sadly true, Azriel. It's not isolated to any race or continent. It's part of the culture of poverty, and especially rural poverty, where there's no wealth other than food and labor, and starvation is real. In such cultures a family's wealth is in it's sons whose lives are not much different than slaves, exactly the way their fathers were raised. Wives are machines for making sons. Daughters are more mouths to feed. When human life is cheap theirs are valued the least.

I was sickened by the story too ( I walked away from the computer before finishing), especially the mother's comments about destiny. It suggests to me that the girl wasn't killed because of her behavior, but because the family couldn't afford to support her and couldn't afford a dowry to get her a husband. They were looking for an excuse to get rid of her, and the boy just happened to be there as an excuse.

If I'm right, the only solution is education, especially for women to give them more perceived value, and fighting poverty around the world. Punishing the father and mother is probably necessary but won't change a thing.

[Mrs Figg]

Part of it is poverty, but honour killings still happen today in the Italian society, and these are relatively modest but certainly not poor people. There are many such stories that I hear of in the news. Mainly in the south of Italy. These people have all recieved an education, they have jobs and cars and all the trappings of civilized society. The only problem is they have medieval views towards women. In 2012. Many young girls and women end up murdered for questions of honour. So its not all about poverty. Its about control and power.

[halfwise]

I read that story the day before Petty, and was so upset by it I felt it was better not even to post: if I had the power my first raging retaliation would be just short of genocide. I really don't think I can formulate a coherent response.

[David H]

I'm sure you're right, Mrs Figg. Power seems to give some people the idea that rules don't apply to them, and I'm sure that's amplified in a culture that puts "honor" before law.

I'm still hanging on to my belief that poverty is at least partly at the root of "honor" killings, even if only historically though. It gives me a logical explanation and a possible path forward, as opposed to simply believing that humans don't require a cause for psychopathic behavior, that it may be a part of all of us....

[Orwell]

I remember someone saying to me many years ago that everyone is corrupt but the more powerful one is the bigger the corruption. I might borrow a pen from work, a millionaire might steal millions from me in bank charges for services that cost him nothing. Maybe I should be saying 'capacity' rather than 'corruption', but I guess my point is the same in the end.

[azriel]

https://youtu.be/wmNID1xaoy8

[halfwise]

I'm sure you're right, Mrs Figg. Power seems to give some people the idea that rules don't apply to them, and I'm sure that's amplified in a culture that puts "honor" before law.

I'm still hanging on to my belief that poverty is at least partly at the root of "honor" killings, even if only historically though. It gives me a logical explanation and a possible path forward, as opposed to simply believing that humans don't require a cause for psychopathic behavior, that it may be a part of all of us....

I wouldn't think poverty is at the root of honor killings, but having a higher standard of living gives one a feeling of having options. Poverty perhaps allows it to happen (in part), doesn't cause it to happen.

[Orwell]

https://youtu.be/wmNID1xaoy8

Are you involved Azriel? I'd like to know more.

[azriel]

ORWELL: I originally saw this Ad on TV & it saddened me, to think LITTLE girls are no more than slaves or property, to be used as any man sees fit is disgusting,IMO. They should be doing what all little girls are doing.. playing with dolls & having fun, NOT being a full grown woman,doing acts that a woman is expected to do. Im lucky, I dont bow down to any man,at least I have the choice,they do not. I looked on their site,(plan-uk.org) & have signed a petition. Ive got a beautiful grand-daughter,her father is Iranian,I know he loves her!,(even tho my daughter & he are divorced) He would NOT subject her to what these girls go thru. Yet,in the 20th century,this is seen as accepted, & an every day thing in some cultures.

[Orwell]

I personally believe the emancipation of all females is the most important cause worldwide. I don't know if you've noticed, but the more freedom women have in a country the (generally) more humane a country is. Shows that a 'fair go' (or 'feminism', if you like) is an enormous power for good.

I personally believe too that too many males - even in Western societies - still view women as chattels. It may be more subtle in Western countries, but I work in the area of family violence (generally speaking 'violence against women', and violence includes physical and sexual abuse, controlling behaviour, financial oppression etcetera) and so see it very often.

Btw Malala Yousafzai is an inspiration and I was pleased to see her Dad standing up for her. I suspect most women (and many men) in countries like Afghanistan want genuine democracy and that a smaller number use violence to crush their hopes. It's the reason I still support Western involvement in places like Afghanistan.

[azriel]

I like listening to the "warmer,softer" side of you, ORWELL, I can tell you mean what you say. But I also like the "sarky" side !, most amusing !!

[Orwell]

Nothing warm or soft about me, Azriel. I'm hard as nails when it comes to standing up for what I call a 'fair go'... I not only like and respect women, I loooove women, 'cause, you see, I'm a Real Man... (not one of those Petty types who don't know how to properly pleeeeease a woman! )

I'm dead straight when I say Female Emancipation is the most important cause facing humanity. Full fleged democracies (fully 'inclusive' democracies) are less likely to want to invade other fully fledged democracies in my opinion.

Also, if you want to progress your country, why cut out half the population from which pool you may actually find plenty of talent. Female emancipation is pure common sense.

(And girls and boys should play with each other 'equally'- if you know what I mean, and I'm sure you do! )

[halfwise]

(And girls and boys should play with each other 'equally'- if you know what I mean, and I'm sure you do! )

if you mean little girls should finally be the ones to show up with a box of chocolates on the first date, I'm all for it!

[Orwell]

I'm traditional in some ways. My Missus likes me buying her flowers. I like it when she smiles (it beats a frown every time! ) Also, little thoughtfulnesses like that make her feel a bit better about herself, and usually enhance my chances of getting a bit you know what --- umm... I mean, getting a bit of 'intimacy' - it's not the actual sex that matters .. not really... sometimes maybe.... not that I'm calling my Missus a prostitute... nor expect her to play dress ups... though if she wants to... well, she is emancipated and can make her own choices... sometimes a box of chocolates doesn't go astray either...

[Eldorion]

Go on...

[halfwise]

I believe the traditional roles do pluck some deep string that each of the sexes responds to, but a whole lot of very equal intellect has been plopped on top of the deeper nurturer/protector roles. I prefer that the roles be played as a mutual game with the understanding that we don't see them as 'real', just something we both go through to pluck those deep strings. Normally the gender roles should be ignored, only trotted out to help get in the primordial mood as needed.