Re: The Bigger, Badder, Even More Serious Thread [2]

[Eldorion]

Some people are living on a different planet, that's for sure.

http://gawker.com/5885705/the-top-1-must-stop-insisting-theyre-not-rich-right-this-instant

It's truly mind-boggling how insular people with that amount of money are able to become. It's as if they either forgot or never knew that owning a pool, having a cleaning lady, taking regular overseas vacations, sending your kids to expensive private schools, and buying luxury cars are not actually elements of ordinary life. Hell, most people are happy if they're simply able to own their own house.

[halfwise]

Two of my favorites:

first, to justify the amount of money they have to spend each month: " ...there's the stuff that fills our houses-the calibre of which is the subject of intense, unspoken competition among my peers and neighbors."

Then one item of MONTHLY expenses jumped out at me: 'Clothes at Harry Rosen and shoes from online collectible sneaker stores: $1,000'

[CC12 35]

a rich man ain't nothing but a poor man with money..and by that i mean they sit in traffic like the rest of us

Unless they fly

Which thinking about it they probably do

[halfwise]

The really rich people use hovercrafts and go right over the traffic. Or they would if they had any brains.

[CC12 35]

The Walking Rich

[CC12 35]

The Hovercrafting rich

[Eldorion]

They have chauffeurs and personal shoppers. Obviously.

[Eldorion]

I was just reading about how David Cameron is saying that the government will offer a vote on leaving the EU, but only if the Tories win the next election.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-21148282

I'm not really up to date on all the latest developments in the Euro debate, but what jumps out to me is that this seems like a really naked, calculated, and (dare I say) desperate attempt to win votes in the next election. Is there something I'm missing here? Like, does it really take 3-4 years to organize a referendum? Or is this actually just as crass and obvious as it comes across as. Given Cameron's handling of the upcoming Scottish independence referendum I'm not inclined to give him the benefit of a doubt.

[Pettytyrant101]

No you arent missing anything Eldo- its a big carrot to a (mainly English) eurosceptic electorate.

Its full of 'if's' however- the referendum only happens 'if' the Tories win an outright majority -not something the bookies are offering great odds on- 'if' Cameron can renegotiate with the rest of europe a treaty to put before the people- most European countries consider most of the matters Cameron wants to drag up as long done and dusted and are in no rush to revisit them with more pressing concerns for euro member states to worry about than the Brits having a hissy fit off the coast.

You will know I have said for a long time Cameron is a poor politician, never mind my feelings for Tories- I hated Thatcher but at her height she was a clever and shrewd politician- Cameron isnt.
This speech on europe has now led the opposition to lay charges at his door that putting it off till 2015 means a period of uncertainty, bad for business, bad for investment, bad for confidence ect.
Sound familiar? Yup those are the charges the Unionist campaign has been making of the SNP and their referendum- attacks which have come strongly from the Scottish wing of the Tory party too.
Now Cameron will have to defend his own policy against the same charges and will be unable to put those attacks against the SNP.

On top of that one of the biggest things the Unionists had going for them was the uncertainty over Scotlands place in the EU.
Cameron has just turned the Scottish referendum from stay in Britain to a choice between the UK or Europe- a huge tactical misstep in my view as Scotland is not as euro-hostile as England by a long way.

[Eldorion]

Is Cameron some sort of Labour plant to undermine the credibility of the Conservative Party? I don't see how someone who blunders around as much as he does could ever have become the leader of a major political party. Then again, my country elected George W. Bush twice, so who am I to talk?

This move just reeks of desperation though. Do the Eurosceptics actually fall for this stuff? "Ooh, vote for me and I'll give you everything you want as soon as I'm safely in power for another five years. Don't worry, I'll give you all the details once the votes have been counted." What a wanker.

[Pettytyrant101]

Cameron and the Tories are facing a growing threat from an electrate whom cameron has made promises on europe to before and not delivered- the upshot of this is the increasing popularity of a not entirely pleasant party called UKIP- UK Independence Party- whose public face is one of openness but a Britain free from Europe governing its own affairs without interference- at grass roots level its more about immigrants, racism and they have a strong line in homophobia as well.

This move of Camerons is a way to steady his own backbenches and to try to stop a leech of votes from disgruntled Torie voters to UKIP ones.

But its tactically inept on a number of levels and in the big game of politics blocks him from making moves in other directions.

[Pettytyrant101]

A lib-dem MP has been reprimanded by his party for comments he has made on the subject of Holocaust memorial Day.

Thing is not only do I think he should not have got a reprimand, I agree with him.

'The Liberal Democrats have "condemned" their MP David Ward for his "use of language" in a statement about Israel's treatment of Palestinians, issued ahead of Holocaust Memorial Day.
He accused "the Jews" in Israel of "inflicting atrocities on Palestinians... on a daily basis".
Mr Ward has been summoned to a meeting with party whips next week.
Mr Ward, who has represented Bradford East since 2010, described Auschwitz as "the Nazi concentration and extermination camp which is the site of the largest mass murder in history"
But it also included a statement from Mr Ward: "Having visited Auschwitz twice - once with my family and once with local schools - I am saddened that the Jews, who suffered unbelievable levels of persecution during the Holocaust, could within a few years of liberation from the death camps be inflicting atrocities on Palestinians in the new State of Israel and continue to do so on a daily basis in the West Bank and Gaza."
Karen Pollock, chief executive of the Holocaust Educational Trust, said she was "deeply saddened" that the MP had "deliberately abused the memory of the Holocaust".
She added: "These comments are sickening and unacceptable and have no place in British politics."
A Lib Dem spokesman said: "This is a matter we take extremely seriously. The Liberal Democrats deeply regret and condemn the statement issued by David Ward and his use of language which is unacceptable."
Jon Benjamin, chief executive of the Board of Deputies of British Jews, said: "We are outraged and shocked at these offensive comments about Jewish victims of the Holocaust and the suggestion that Jews should have learned a lesson from the experience.
"For an MP to have made such comments on the eve of Holocaust Memorial Day is even more distasteful, and we welcome the fact that the Liberal Democrats have sought to disassociate the party from David Ward's comments."
But Mr Ward told the BBC: "I've spoken to the chief whip, and he's got his views. I don't feel bad about it in any way. They consider my comments regrettable; I consider their reprimand regrettable."- BBC

Personally I think the words 'sickening, unacceptable, distasteful, outrageous, shocking- better suited to Israels treatment of Palestinians not this MP's words.

[David H]

The the problem I have with the statement is that he seems to casually lump all Jews together in the guilt.

If he'd said "Likud" or "Zionists" I wouldn't argue, but to tar all Jews with the same brush, when I know for a fact that many Israeli and American Jews are opposed to what's going on for the very reason he states, seems very wrong.

It's like blaming all Americans for Bush, or all Brits for Thatcher. Worse actually because he didn't restrict his remarks to Israelis. It's more like blaming all Muslims for the actions of Iran.

This kind of name-calling is what inflames the extremists and marginalizes the moderate voices on both sides. And it makes peace just a little more difficult.

[Eldorion]

I understand your point David, but to be fair, it's hardly uncommon to ascribe responsibility to an entire nation for the actions of its government or a segment of its people. To use an example relevant to this discussion, think of all the times you've heard people say that "the Germans" were responsible for the Holocaust, despite the fact that there were some Germans who opposed it and even those who risked their lives to help save Jews and other persecuted groups. I think most people understand what is meant by such language, though it does facilitate dangerously simplistic thinking, to be sure.

I agree that saying "the Jews" instead of "Israelis" is problematic, though. Unfortunately it seems to be common -- I've probably done so myself in conversation -- but I think it's a distinction worth working to keep in mind.

[Pettytyrant101]

Whilst I agree using the broad term is not entirely helpful I honestly dont think it would have mattered one bit had he said Israelis instead of jews- he would still have got reprimanded and he would still have had the jewish groups going after him and he'd still be right.

[the truth]

I have to agree with you Petty . The Middle east has a very complicated history and alot of people dont know and understand this history .Mr Ward made a very good point, but I feel for him for the backlash he might recieve . Its sort of like dog Poo , it doesnt smell nearly as bad til you step on it .

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