Doctor Who [12]
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Re: Doctor Who [12]
by Pettytyrant101 Sat Nov 21, 2015 9:33 pm
I really enjoyed it.
- Spoiler:
- Imaginative, scary at the right turns, the perfect send off for Clara and her character arc. More amazing performances from the two leads, Capaldi standing out as usual. Good score from Murray Gold too I thought, especially in the death scene. And nice to see Rigsby back. Also liked the psychic woman with the two faces, and all the hinted at and well built up through little subtleties or the odd line world of the refugee street. I thought Sarah Dollard made a pretty good debut here on the writing front. Especially given the responsibility.
And the Doctors threat to Ashildir, with the sole exception of 11's moment with Colonel Runaway,which was only a brief moment and a look, thats the first time in NUWHo I've really felt like we are dealing with a being that if his rage ever was unleashed, it really could burn planets.
8 out of 9 from me.might go up depending on what happens next- but that's as I suspect its just part 1 of a 3 part finale.
Next week nothing but the Doctor!
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Re: Doctor Who [12]
by malickfan Sat Nov 21, 2015 9:36 pm
azriel wrote:IL watch next week but, it had better be worth it
Next week's episode apparently features Capaldi more or less entirely on his own, and has been described as a bit of a cerebral mysterious episode, the rumours/synopsis for the finale suggest episode 12 might be the really exciting one...
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Re: Doctor Who [12]
by malickfan Sat Nov 21, 2015 9:40 pm
Pettytyrant101 wrote:I really enjoyed it.
- Spoiler:
And the Doctors threat to Ashildir, with the sole exception of 11's moment with Colonel Runaway,which was only a brief moment and a look, thats the first time in NUWHo I've really felt like we are dealing with a being that if his rage ever was unleashed, it really could burn planets.
8 out of 9 from me.might go up depending on what happens next- but that's as I suspect its just part 1 of a 3 part finale.
Next week nothing but the Doctor!
I thought the pacing was a bit off, and Rigsy kinda dissapeared into the background at the end (hoping he's the next companion...)
Capaldi was brilliant tonight...next week's episode next week's episode apparently features something called
- Spoiler:
- The Veil...The Valeyard maybe?
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The Thorin: An Unexpected Rewrite December 2012 (I was on the money apparently)
The Tauriel: Desolation of Canon December 2013 (Accurate again!)
The Sod-it! : Battling my Indifference December 2014 (You know what they say, third time's the charm)
Well, that was worth the wait wasn't it
I think what comes out of a pig's rear end is more akin to what Peejers has given us-Azriel 20/9/2014
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Re: Doctor Who [12]
by malickfan Sat Nov 21, 2015 9:43 pm
Was it just me or were there
- Spoiler:
- 'round things' aka tardis interior panels
- Spoiler:
- Ashildr's
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The Tauriel: Desolation of Canon December 2013 (Accurate again!)
The Sod-it! : Battling my Indifference December 2014 (You know what they say, third time's the charm)
Well, that was worth the wait wasn't it
I think what comes out of a pig's rear end is more akin to what Peejers has given us-Azriel 20/9/2014
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Re: Doctor Who [12]
by Mrs Figg Sat Nov 21, 2015 10:25 pm
- Spoiler:
- I was quite enjoying it until the moment they got stuck to the floor and Maisie Williams turned up. First off the Ashildr character is really dull, secondly Rigsy was criminally underused with nothing to say or do but be wallpaper plot device, if you hadn't seen Flatline you would never know anything about his character. The whole story was used to big up Clarexit, it all revolved round Clara, and the whole build up was to her death rather than the Trip Street story, which was very interesting in itself. It was one big Clara story wrapped up in a more interesting story Moffat had cannibalised from a more imaginative writer. and the Ashildr story was just a plot device to get the Doctor from A to B or wherever he is taken , and its probably Gallifrey. I also didn't like the stereotypical young teenage urban dad thing.
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Re: Doctor Who [12]
by malickfan Sat Nov 21, 2015 10:33 pm
Mrs Figg wrote:
- Spoiler:
- Spoiler:
- I like Ashildr, but of all the complaints you could have is dull really fair? She's done a pretty good job at selling a 800 year old with the body of a teenager, you can argue the character's storyline is badly executed or annoying I suppose, but the moral questions raised by her and the doctors actions towards each other could prove to be very interesting in future storylines i.m.o
I agree about the side street storyline being very interesting, but companion exits in New Who are always over the top dramatic and it was basically written as a lead in for the final I think, this could have been a 2 parter easily...
Rigsy was underused yes, but at least he's a charismatic plot device, maybe he'll bump into the Doctor again when Capaldi goes back for the Tardis...
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Well, that was worth the wait wasn't it
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Re: Doctor Who [12]
by Pettytyrant101 Sat Nov 21, 2015 10:45 pm
I don't think you are being fair Figg.
- Spoiler:
- Its a companion departure story, done differently in that its the first part of an at least two part story given it had a 'to be continued' at the end.
Also compare it to Rose's departure. The entire part of the story revolving around the creation of the two Doctors, one of them handily human, is an entire plot contrivance just so Rose has her Doctor to walk off into the sunset with.
Even her first departure, the entire events of the plot, the sphere thing, the make up on the spot stuff about dimensions closing and Time Lords used ot keep them open (did they?!) is all just their to get to the set up for Rose getting trapped in the alternate dimension.
Regards Rigsy the writer says she went to the production team and said she needed a character that the Doctor and Clara would know and trust and that they would not have to spend time on set up for. They suggested Rigsy and she immediately thought he was the perfect choice. That's why he is in it. Also she knew it was going to be the companion departure story because after she had pitched the idea Moffat came back to her and said they really liked it and wanted to use it as Clara's departure story, she was flattered and went and wrote it with that brief. No doubt Moffat added advice, maybe even some lines, but she wrote it. Moffat didn't hijack anything, she wrote according to his brief, which is his job after all.
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Re: Doctor Who [12]
by Mrs Figg Sat Nov 21, 2015 10:45 pm
- Spoiler:
- I just find Ashildr totally unconvincing. The ending was a bit blah, so sick of the whole spiel about the Doctor being a doctor not a warrior blah blah.
- Spoiler:
- The difference for me is the departure of Rose and the Doctor was one of my favourite moments on tv ever in terms of natural and real feeling drama. I felt nothing for Clara and the Doctor and I didn't feel real emotions from him. He just stood there looking a bit smiley faced and a bit peeved. It was weird. Basically all she said was 'you are going to miss me lots and you are going to be sad but get over it, and him saying 'already have, bye bye' even in the face of extermination she had a lot of presumption. I have never been convinced by his caring for Clara anyway.
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Re: Doctor Who [12]
by malickfan Sat Nov 21, 2015 11:17 pm
Mrs Figg wrote:Malick
- Spoiler:
- Spoiler:
Personally I grew very bored by Tennant's endlessly cheery and cheeky doctors zipping around with little consequences, I greatly appreciate the added darkness and moral subtexts they are injecting into Capaldi's storylines (you wouldn't cast an actor of his experience and age and expect him to play a similar doctor)...even if the final results have been very hit and missPetty
- Spoiler:
- Spoiler:
- You are going to hate me...but I didn't find Rose's departure heart wrenching in the slightest, it felt very signposted (not that Clara's didn't-her death wasn't very surprising either), over the top and cliched, as it it was screaming 'LOOK drama!' the whole time, I found it very drawn out, and bringing Rose back for a happy ending in Series 4 was i.m.o detrimental to the character, and a waste of a regeneration for the doctor soley to boost the ratings.
I liked Capaldi's reaction to Clara's departure, he couldn't do anything to stop her death and played the moment very subtly, going through a huge variety of emotions in the space of a few minutes, his doctor is very reserved and quiet with his emotions in comparison to his predecessor , and his reaction was perfectly in keeping with his doctor, his quiet rage and sadness was a great deal more effective than running around screaming and crying like some of the other doctors would be i.m.o.
I wasn't overly fond of Clara though, and I'm glad to see her leave.
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The Tauriel: Desolation of Canon December 2013 (Accurate again!)
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Well, that was worth the wait wasn't it
I think what comes out of a pig's rear end is more akin to what Peejers has given us-Azriel 20/9/2014
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Re: Doctor Who [12]
by Pettytyrant101 Sat Nov 21, 2015 11:52 pm
- Spoiler:
- I wasn't overly fond of Clara though, and I'm glad to see her leave.
- Spoiler:
I agree entirely with everything you say regards how the Doctor reacts, I thought it was pitched perfectly and typically nuanced.
But with Clara I have a hard time deciding where I rate her. If she had first appeared as 12's companion, and all I knew of her was series 8 to now I think I would rate quite highly. I like her character development, I like her story arc ion each series and how one has had ultimate consequences into the next, and I think she and Capaldi work very well together and had a good chemistry and dynamic.
The slower pacing and the greater emphasis on character and dialogue that has followed the regen has given Coleman a lot of good material to work with, and I thought she has had some outstanding moments- her face off with the half-face man, the confrontation with the Doctor at the end of Kill the Moon, with Danny in the graveyard, confronting Missy in the plaza, the volcano scene and many others.
And I thought exploring the consequences of what happens when a companion loses everything but the Doctor's lifestyle they have become addicted to living was an interesting thing to do.
That her last episode should involve Rigsy is suitable as it was Flatline where she first fully took on the mantle of the Doctor.
Its her time with 11 where the problems really lie. Not that she is bad there, but she is more plot device than character for much of it, and her character traits explored in series 8 and 9 of being bossy, controlling and compartmentalizing of her life, being able to talk her way out of situations were only sketched in like placeholders. And as an actor she doesn't really get to stretch herself until 12 arrives.
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Re: Doctor Who [12]
by Forest Shepherd Sun Nov 22, 2015 12:51 am
So many spoilers!! 
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Re: Doctor Who [12]
by Pettytyrant101 Sun Nov 22, 2015 12:50 pm
Doctor Who- traumatizing childhood since 1963 
(spoilers)
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Re: Doctor Who [12]
by Pettytyrant101 Sun Nov 22, 2015 2:08 pm
Press Round up-
- Spoiler:
- Telegraph - 'The exit of Jenna Coleman's beloved character was the most dramatic for over 30 years...The final farewell between the Doctor and Clara may have teetered onto the wrong side of overwrought, but the story was beautifully played out with yet another stand-out performance from Capaldi.'
The Independent - 'While writer Sarah Dollard’s influences are clearly on show, this feels like an episode of television you could only ever see on Doctor Who. A heady mixture of science fiction, Gothic whodunnit and emotional rollercoaster, it doesn’t just leave you breathless – it leaves you wanting more...In a very interesting season already, Doctor Who just got even more interesting.'
The Guardian - 'Once more, Peter Capaldi ticks off pages of emotive dialogue within one facial expression....It was a canny move to bring back Rigsy for her exit; remember that the cheeky graffiti artist served as her proxy-companion when she turned proxy-Doctor in last year’s Flatline. In taking on his quantum shade, it was the combination of schoolteachery pastoral instinct and reckless abandon that finally did for her.'
Digital Spy - ' It not only nails its original conceit, but has much to offer beyond the initial spectacle.... The execution is fast-paced and energetic without losing any coherence. The dialogue is sparkling and Justin Molotnikov directs with a great deal of verve, drawing animated and emotional performances from the entire cast...Her status as 'wannabe Doctor' has been a bone of contention for some unhappy fans, but this evolution plays into her exit in superbly cruel fashion....In one of the finest episode climaxes that Doctor Who has delivered in 10 years, Clara meets her surprisingly bleak end... Imaginative, colourful and above all emotional, 'Face the Raven' is a standout episode on every level.'
Radio Times - 'what befalls Clara in Face the Raven is unmomentous, unspectacular; the stakes are small. Couldn’t she have died saving the universe?...But with all this going on – even the turning-point ending that Dollard has been gifted – Face the Raven is, at best, pedestrian. It’s mostly dull and uninvolving'
IGN 8.4 - '“Face the Raven” certainly makes it seem as though she’s getting a far less happy ending than Rose or Amy or Donna or Sarah Jane or…I wasn’t quite as moved by the events of this episode as I was when, say, the Eleventh Doctor regenerated, or when Rose left. It was effective, sure, but maybe my reaction is simply the result of kind of sensing this was coming for the past two and a half months. I mean, she has had something of a death wish, hasn’t she?..It’s those last few minutes between Peter Capaldi and Jenna Coleman, not surprisingly, that make this episode sing. Capaldi has truly worked his way towards a level of greatness this season in terms of Doctor portrayals, and the rapport between the two characters (and actors) is as strong in their goodbye scene as it’s ever been.'
Den of Geek - 'Face The Raven doesn’t half give her a fitting farewell. I found Donna Noble’s departure close to heartbreaking, but what was particularly of note here, appreciating how few companions have been killed in the line of time-travelling duty, was that Clara ultimately knew it was coming....Several times throughout this particular series run, I’ve made note of Doctor Who’s confidence in putting away an action sequence in favour of people having a chat. I think it’s an important, intelligent feature of the show, and where it works particularly well is in the third act of a story....In the midst of a 45 minute episode, debut Who writer Sarah Dollard found space – without making it feel squeezed – for a slow, emotional, beautifully pitched farewell, whilst also not making that the exclusive focus of her story....as the episode clocked past the 35 minute mark, both Jenna Coleman and Peter Capaldi earnt every penny of their fee...Just go back and rewatch it. Look how they act this sequence out, with Capaldi’s eyes instantly filled with sorrow as he sees what Clara's done, and Coleman’s gradually changing as the realisation hits her. Never mind the excellent dialogue for a second: just watch them...Sarah Dollard, take a bow....Applaud drama like this, folks. Applaud the production values. Applaud the writing, the direction, the performances. And applaud the fact that Doctor Who series 9 has bristled with a confidence and a determination to show people just what family drama can do...Even if you didn’t warm to Face The Raven...you can’t doubt that we got 45 minutes where ideas and ambition were all left on the screen.'
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Re: Doctor Who [12]
by Mrs Figg Sun Nov 22, 2015 3:53 pm
- Spoiler:
- FTR was derivative at best, it took huge chunks out of Neverwhere and HPotter. it was based on the slenderist of slender storylines. talk about Emperors Clothes
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Re: Doctor Who [12]
by Pettytyrant101 Sun Nov 22, 2015 4:41 pm
Who has always taken inspiration from elsewhere then given it a Who spin.
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Re: Doctor Who [12]
by azriel Sun Nov 22, 2015 5:35 pm
Praps to divert money to other areas its not a bad idea to pinch sets from other films/progs ? This latest episode looked like Diagon alley ? 
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Re: Doctor Who [12]
by Mrs Figg Sun Nov 22, 2015 5:36 pm
- Spoiler:
- they just blagged Diagon Alley straight from the book. I thought the idea of a trap street was good however I would have like it to have been developed past simplistic copying. it could have been made really memorable and magical. I would have had a layering of various periods in time and avoided the dumb Cyberman as loving husband fuckery.
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Re: Doctor Who [12]
by Pettytyrant101 Sun Nov 22, 2015 5:48 pm
- Spoiler:
- Did Daigon alley also function as a refugee camp? I know nothing HP related. But I dont see it is any more a steal from there than from say Gaimans Neverwhere or the Doom Patrol comics of many years ago. Its not the idea that matters, it snot new, few are, its what you do with it- I liked the refugee camp aspect, that it had to run on absolute rules given who was there, I liked seeing other cybermen who like Danny had broken their programming (only weren't dead like he was) out of love, and how that lasted until his last moment, despite being a cyberman. It opens up the cyberman possibilities. I liked how it tied to Ishildir's promise in the previous episode. There was a nice little world in that street solidly built up without a lot of fuss, just good economical writing I thought.
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Re: Doctor Who [12]
by azriel Sun Nov 22, 2015 5:51 pm
- Spoiler:
- I havent read the Harry Potter books but, I have seen some of the films, & I thought JK Rowling was bad at nicking stuff !
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If you always do what you have always done, you will always get what you always got
azriel- Grumpy cat, rub my tummy, hear me purr
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Re: Doctor Who [12]
by Pettytyrant101 Sun Nov 22, 2015 5:53 pm
I used to have a quote in my sig from a classic Who showrunner who basically was saying Who writers dont get inspiration from other sources, they nick it wholesale from the back of a lorry, no questions asked.
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A Green And Pleasant Land
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Warning may contain Wholesome Tales[/b]
A Green And Pleasant Land
Compiled and annotated by Eldy.
- get your copy here for a limited period- free*
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yjYiz8nuL3LqJ-yP9crpDKu_BH-1LwJU/view
*Pure Publications reserves the right to track your usage of this publication, snoop on your home address, go through your bins and sell personal information on to the highest bidder.
Warning may contain Wholesome Tales[/b]
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Re: Doctor Who [12]
by azriel Sun Nov 22, 2015 5:54 pm
Sounds very 'Pratchetty'
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"All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. It's the job that's never started as takes longest to finish.”
"There are far, far, better things ahead than any we can leave behind"
If you always do what you have always done, you will always get what you always got
azriel- Grumpy cat, rub my tummy, hear me purr
- Posts : 15702
Join date : 2012-10-07
Age : 64
Location : in a galaxy, far,far away, deep in my own imagination.
Re: Doctor Who [12]
by Pettytyrant101 Sun Nov 22, 2015 6:41 pm
If you are avoiding spoilers on this series avoid the Daily Mail webpage or newspaper for today! Just had a mate who was waiting till the end of the series to boxset binge them all, had last nights episode ruined by a huge story in the DM (currently also the main story on their website front page)- typically in true Mail style they are trying to stir up some controversy by claiming
- Spoiler:
- that Clara's death was 'too emotional' for children and should not have been shown pre-watershed!
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Pure Publications, The Tower of Lore and the Former Admin's Office are Reasonably Proud to Present-
A Green And Pleasant Land
Compiled and annotated by Eldy.
- get your copy here for a limited period- free*
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yjYiz8nuL3LqJ-yP9crpDKu_BH-1LwJU/view
*Pure Publications reserves the right to track your usage of this publication, snoop on your home address, go through your bins and sell personal information on to the highest bidder.
Warning may contain Wholesome Tales[/b]
A Green And Pleasant Land
Compiled and annotated by Eldy.
- get your copy here for a limited period- free*
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yjYiz8nuL3LqJ-yP9crpDKu_BH-1LwJU/view
*Pure Publications reserves the right to track your usage of this publication, snoop on your home address, go through your bins and sell personal information on to the highest bidder.
Warning may contain Wholesome Tales[/b]
the crabbit will suffer neither sleight of hand nor half-truths. - Forest
Pettytyrant101- Crabbitmeister
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Re: Doctor Who [12]
by Mrs Figg Sun Nov 22, 2015 9:03 pm
- Spoiler:
- yes I can imagine being incredibly bored is very distressing poor loves
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Re: Doctor Who [12]
by malickfan Mon Nov 23, 2015 8:16 pm
http://www.digitalspy.com/tv/doctor-who/feature/a774897/in-defence-of-doctor-who-in-the-1980s/
http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2015-11-23/steven-moffat-finally-reveals-why-john-hurt-replaced-christopher-eccleston-in-the-doctor-who-50th-anniversary-special
I still think one (or all of them) should have been cast as the Moment's interface, although Billie Piper was great there were very few concessions to the classic series, and the 10th Doctor already has a major supporting role, then again there was alot to pack in 75 minutes.
Although RTD wrote Eccleston as the man who ended (and mostly likely fought) the time war I can't really see how DOTD would have worked with Eccleston's Doctor personally (the whole self loathing thing 10 and 11 had, and saving gallifrey would have undermined his character arc i.m.o), I wonder how similar Eccleston's version was...
Call me old fashioned but would it make more sense to sign your leading men up before you start writing the script?
, all the Classic Doctors wanted to do it anyway...
Part of me wants to see what the Jenna Coleman version would be like...
I do vaguely recall reading Hurt was shortlisted for the planned American Reboot in the 1990s, but I don't think he was ever approached for the role when it was reworked into the 1996 TV Movie, I'm glad he didn't get the role and that Eccleston turned the 50th, McGann and Hurt are both great doctors, the latter was the best thing about DOTD i.m.o and I'm following news of his audio adventures with great interest...
http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2015-11-23/steven-moffat-finally-reveals-why-john-hurt-replaced-christopher-eccleston-in-the-doctor-who-50th-anniversary-special
I know I’m a b*****d but hey, I think Peter [Davison], Colin [Baker] and Sylvester [McCoy] were better deployed in The Five-ish Doctors [a spoof short film] than they could ever be elsewhere.
I still think one (or all of them) should have been cast as the Moment's interface, although Billie Piper was great there were very few concessions to the classic series, and the 10th Doctor already has a major supporting role, then again there was alot to pack in 75 minutes.
But I knew that Chris was almost certainly going to say no. I met him a couple of times and he was absolutely lovely. He met with me because he didn’t want to say no through his agent or a phone call or email. He wanted to do it personally. And I three-quarters talked him into it.
Although RTD wrote Eccleston as the man who ended (and mostly likely fought) the time war I can't really see how DOTD would have worked with Eccleston's Doctor personally (the whole self loathing thing 10 and 11 had, and saving gallifrey would have undermined his character arc i.m.o), I wonder how similar Eccleston's version was...
What was the deal with John Hurt coming in at the last minute?
We had to work out what else to do. At that point neither David nor Matt were under contract either. I had Jenna [Coleman]. And I did come up with a plotline that was just Jenna. It was a nightmare. We’re weeks from filming. A production team is assembled, people are doing storyboards and I don’t even know if anyone who has ever played the Doctor is going to be in it.
Call me old fashioned but would it make more sense to sign your leading men up before you start writing the script?
, all the Classic Doctors wanted to do it anyway...Part of me wants to see what the Jenna Coleman version would be like...
Specifically someone who might have been cast as the Doctor during the long hiatus.
I do vaguely recall reading Hurt was shortlisted for the planned American Reboot in the 1990s, but I don't think he was ever approached for the role when it was reworked into the 1996 TV Movie, I'm glad he didn't get the role and that Eccleston turned the 50th, McGann and Hurt are both great doctors, the latter was the best thing about DOTD i.m.o and I'm following news of his audio adventures with great interest...
He totally gets it. And he was lovely about being in it. I wasn’t there on his last day, but he gave a little speech and said something like: “I don’t want anyone to think I took this lightly or thought I was slumming it. This really meant something to me, to be the Doctor.” He was quite insistent, saying to me and to others: “So I am properly Doctor Who now. I am a Doctor Who. I can say it?” He loves the fact that he’s Doctor Who. Only having to stay in Cardiff for three weeks, he gets to be Doctor Who.
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The Thorin: An Unexpected Rewrite December 2012 (I was on the money apparently)
The Tauriel: Desolation of Canon December 2013 (Accurate again!)
The Sod-it! : Battling my Indifference December 2014 (You know what they say, third time's the charm)
Well, that was worth the wait wasn't it
I think what comes out of a pig's rear end is more akin to what Peejers has given us-Azriel 20/9/2014
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