Doctor Who [8]
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Doctor Who [8]
by Pettytyrant101 Wed Dec 25, 2013 9:38 pm
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Re: Doctor Who [8]
by malickfan Wed Dec 25, 2013 9:55 pm
Figgs that is exactly what I'm talking about! Everyone hates the new Doctor, the hates his replacement even more. I loathed Matt Smith in his short appearance in End of Time, but I've come to really like the guy-everyone hated Doctor Who TV film, but everyone went nuts over Mcgann's return.
Moffat, Capaldi and Coleman have all indicated than a ten second cameo shot months before Capaldi really started work on the series is nothing to go on, 12 is basically caught in flux from his regeneration his prior mannerisms and mood are still carrying over.
-Did you judge Tennant based soley on 'New Teeth!, that's weird!'?
Personally I think I love 12 already.
Moffat, Capaldi and Coleman have all indicated than a ten second cameo shot months before Capaldi really started work on the series is nothing to go on, 12 is basically caught in flux from his regeneration his prior mannerisms and mood are still carrying over.
-Did you judge Tennant based soley on 'New Teeth!, that's weird!'?
Personally I think I love 12 already.
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Re: Doctor Who [8]
by Mrs Figg Wed Dec 25, 2013 10:10 pm
Figgs that is exactly what I'm talking about! Everyone hates the new Doctor, the hates his replacement even more. Malick
Well I didnt hate Eccleston and I didnt hate Tennant so your theory doesnt fit my experience of new Doctors. I adored both of them from the moment I saw them. I dont have some inbuilt hatred of new Doctors at all and I find it odd to even think like that. I didnt like Matt Smiths Doctor because I didnt like the persona much, it was a bit lightweight to begin with but he grew on me towards the Clara episodes. As far as Capaldi goes, what I saw I didnt like, gut instinct, it looked wrong, but it may change as we get to know his character
Well I didnt hate Eccleston and I didnt hate Tennant so your theory doesnt fit my experience of new Doctors. I adored both of them from the moment I saw them. I dont have some inbuilt hatred of new Doctors at all and I find it odd to even think like that. I didnt like Matt Smiths Doctor because I didnt like the persona much, it was a bit lightweight to begin with but he grew on me towards the Clara episodes. As far as Capaldi goes, what I saw I didnt like, gut instinct, it looked wrong, but it may change as we get to know his character
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Re: Doctor Who [8]
by Tinuviel Thu Dec 26, 2013 4:48 am
I wasn't a fan of the episode. I felt like moffat tried to cram too much into one episode and pull emotional stakes out of thin air. It should have been him and Clara, not all the other stuff. I genuinely miss RTD's stories and writing. This doesn't hold a candle to end of time, IMO.
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Re: Doctor Who [8]
by Pettytyrant101 Thu Dec 26, 2013 4:55 am
Funny how differently people see things- I really dont like End of Time. It has a terrible plot, and I would much rather rewatch last night ep that have to sit through End of Time again, by the time Tennant finally regens I was sick to death of RTD dragging it out for so long and milking all the emotion clean out of it.
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Re: Doctor Who [8]
by Pettytyrant101 Thu Dec 26, 2013 7:27 am
My spoiler filled review of Time of the Doctor-
- Spoiler:
- Time of the Doctor opens with a narration setting the scene, and in a sense the biggest problem with this episode revolves around narration. There is quite a lot of it throughout, necessary to convey the large period of time over which this episode is set (several hundred years) and narration never has been the best way to create tension in a visual medium. But I will come back to this.
So we begin with a planet from which a universal, throughout time, signal is being received that no one can understand. But everyone has turned up to find out about.
The Doctor is trying to investigate with the aid of a cyberman head he has nicknamed Handles. But unfortunately every time the Doctor boards a ship to find out why they have all come he gets shot at (and it was lovely for me to hear the old Dalek heart beat pulse again in their ship- well ok not nice as it unnerves me something rotten, but I was glad it was back.)
Meanwhile back on earth its xmas and Clara is cooking xmas dinner and having some turkey based problems. She has also told her family she has a boyfriend and needs the Doctor to turn up and pretend to be him.
Clara- I may have, accidentally invented a boyfriend.
Doctor- Yeah, I did that once, and there's no easy way to get rid of an android.
So the Doctor turns up on earth, naked (he was on his way to Church which apparently in the far future you attend naked as a sign of respect) wearing holographic clothes and is introduced to Clara's family round the kitchen table, only for him to then reveal to Clara that only she can see the clothes and as far as her family are concerned he just walked in without a stitch on (a scene worth rewatching when you know this for enjoying the looks on their faces at his arrival!).
In an attempt to save Clara's turkey the Doctor bungs it into the TARDIS where exposed to the Time Winds it will either 'come up or a treat, or lay some eggs.'
Handles, the cyberman head has been analysing the mystery universe wide signal, and has worked out it comes from Gallifrey. Even though the planet everyone is orbiting looks nothing like Gallifrey.
The Doctor cant go down to the planet, no one can, as its been shielded by the Church, who are present in a massive flying Church- the Papal Mainframe which keeps the peace through offering security, the future Church being heavily militarised as we saw in a Good man Goes to War.
Clara- A Security Church?
Doctor- Yup, keeping you safe in this life, and the next.
The Head of the Church, its Mother Superiorous Tasha Lem is an old friend of the Doctor (and quite saucy with it for the head of the church) and the one responsible for the force field preventing anyone including the Doctor from going down to the surface.
Whilst the Doctor chats Clara has an encounter with the Silence, who we have always known were connected to the Church somehow and there are a fair few onboard.
Cutting a deal with Tasha the Doctor is granted one hour on the planet to find out what the signal is and where it is coming from. So the Doctor and Clara find themselves just outside a small human colony called Christmas on the planet where there is only an hours daylight.
And the first thing they find is one of the creepiest uses of the Angels since Blink, as Clara first notices an apparent arm sticking out the snow and we get a rather disturbing scene in which Weeping Angels clamber out of the snow all around them as they try to keep them all in sight.
Up till now the episode has generally had a pretty light and fun tone with holographic clothes and underdone turkeys but this scene is the first hint of the much darker tones its begins to take on.
Making use of Matt Smith's shaved head for a film, the Doctor whips his hair off to reveal a hidden TARDIS key and summons her to the planet surface allowing their escape from the Angels.
This again is more back to the light xmassy mode of the episodes opening, and the shifts that go on throughout this episode between the usual xmassy feel and the much darker more serious tones of this story jar a little side by side like this, the shift in tone at times is quite drastic.
Having tracked the mystery signal down to a bell tower in town they set off to investigate, the Doctor comes up with a cover story to tell the locals, but upon encountering some locals he blurts out exactly who he is and why he is there- turns out the bell tower is also emitting a truth field- no on can lie within it, explaining why at the end of series 6 Dorian said no one can fail to tell the truth when the question is asked.
“I'm the Doctor, I'm a Time Lord from the planet Gallifrey, I stole a Time Machine and ran away and I've been flouting the principle law of my people every since.... That wasn’t quite what I meant to say!”
Inside the bell tower they discover a crack in time- or to be more precise the same crack in time that started 11's time in the TARDIS, the crack from Amy's bedroom wall.
This is where this episode hit a problem in terms of being the xmas episode.
For those of us who have been diligently following 11's time knowing we will get answers to a lot of plot points left hanging from the entire 11 era is pretty exciting stuff- for the casual viewer tuning because it the xmas episode unresolved plot points from several years ago are more likely to confuse. For Moffat it a no win scenario- fail to explain the stuff left hanging still and the long term fans will be in uproar- answer all the questions and casual viewers will be left out.
The episode never quite manages to find the balance between the two I feel.
The signal they are tracing is coming through the crack- someone or something outside our universe is trying to get back through to it.
Using the seal of Rassilon which the Doctor stole from the Master during the events of the Five Doctors in classic Who the Doctor translates the message with the aid of Handles- the message is a question- the oldest question in the universe- Doctor Who?
And now its translated everyone can hear the question.
A question only the Doctor can answer, and a truth field to make sure he doesn’t lie.
All the Doctor has to do is give his name and the Time Lords know they have found the right place to return and Galllifrey can come back.
The snag being all the other races around the planet who will restart the Time War and attack as soon as it happens. Or even better from their point of view- blow the place to bits so the Time Lords cant get back.
The Doctor sends Clara on an errand back to the TARDIS whilst the Papal Mainframe summons the Doctor. Where he discovers the planet he is on is Trenzalore. The place of his death amidst battle.
Clara in the meantime has been tricked as the TARDIS takes her back home and then leaves her there.
Back on Trenzalore the Doctor faces a dilemma- if he leaves the bad guys will wipe out the planet- if he stays he can protect them. And the bad guys cant risk wiping him out as chances are he will get enough time to say his name and release the Time Lords. So stalemate ensues. For centuries of failed siege after failed siege.
There is an irony in the 11th being the Doctor who could never sit still being the Doctor who gives up travel to stay in one place and to protect the innocents of a town from war.
In the intervening time the Doctor has got older, greying hair and wrinkling skin and walking with a cane. The youngest actor to play the Doctor who has always played an old man in a young body finally gets to have a body that matches the age of the soul inside it.
The narration problem arises again here- with so much time having passed the story is taken up again in narration. In an episode of this length its easy to see why, but its still not a hugely effective way of creating the emotion just telling you about it.
The TARDIS turns back up- 300 years late having been slowed down by the need to not kill Clara who was clinging to the outside trying to get back in.
Clara- You tricked me.
Doctor – I saved you!
Clara- You didn’t even say goodbye.
On the bell tower the Doctor and Clara sit and wait for the few moments of daylight and poor old Handles who is now ancient develops a fault and 'dies' just as dawn breaks.
Its another lovely little scene but its another gear shift in tone again too.
And it leads into Moffat answering another of those big Who questions- this question has been hanging about since the 1970's- and its absolutely necessary it be addressed, but the need to again halts the story whilst we get an explanation for those who don't know the issue- and the issue is one of the limits on regeneration. Including the War Doctor, and 10's regen that he poured into his spare hand the Doctor has run out of regens- this is his last body and he is going to get old in it, and die.
Summoned back to the Papal Mainframe we find out the Silence are genetically created Confessional Priests- you forget what you confessed once you've confessed it, and they are apparently very popular.
But unknown to the Doctor the Mainframe has been Daleked and all the people are robomen (or Dalek-units as they seem to be called now)- Daleks inside humans.
Doctor- Why didn't you call for help?
Tasha- I did. I died in this room, screaming your name.
We also learn that Madame Kovarian was part of a break away Church sect who decided to travel back and try to prevent the Doctor every reaching Trenzalore in the first place- and in doing to they blew up his TARDIS and caused the very cracks in time that in the future cause the problem in the first place (this is why time travel should not be attempted by amateurs!)
Escaping the Mainframe the Doctor and Clara head off in the TARDIS and the turkey is ready!
Clara makes the Doctor promise not to send her away again but when she goes outside with the turkey to meet him she is back on earth and the TARDIS leaves without her and the Doctor goes back to face his end on Trenzalore.
And then we go back to the narration to tell us that the siege has turned to war, with only the Doctor and the Church with the Silence on his side standing against the Daleks.
Back on earth Clara is having Xmas lunch with her family when the TARDIS arrives again, but its not the Doctor its the Church come to get her so that the Doctor does not die alone.
By this time the Doctor is an old man, and with 11's trademark quiff having receded and gone white he looks remarkable reminiscent of the 1st Doctor.
The Dalek finally win their siege and turn up in their ship demanding the Doctor. He leaves Clara to go face the Daleks one last time whilst Clara begs with the Time Lords through the crack in time to save him.
Doctor- “You've been trying to kill me for centuries, and here I am, dying of old age. If you want something done properly do it yourself.”
The crack opens the sky and a lot of chronon particles come from it and into the Doctor- a whole new regen cycle courtesy of the Time Lords.
Doctor- “Did you mention the rules? Daleks, no one ever, tells me the rules.”
Matt gets to have some real fun here as the Doctor, full of regen energy has a cane waving prance about the tower “here comes number thirteen boys!”
Blasting every Dalek in sight with regen energy “with love from Gallifrey!” the Doctor changes his own future and saves Trenzalore.
In the aftermath Clara returns to the TARDIS in search of the Doctor and finds 11 seemingly looking fine and young again in the console room.
But the regen has started.
11's final speech is beautiful delivered by Matt. His speech about the different faces we all wear in life and as we age is poignant and meaningful.
And as 11 goes out he hallucinates, seeing the TRADIS covered in Amelias childhood drawings of her Raggedy Man, and Amelia herself running around the console room laughing, and then at the very last minute he sees Amy saying goodbye to him.
Then removing his signature bow tie he lets it fall to the floor a Clara begs him not to change.
The regen itself when it comes is sudden and without all the usual flare, one minute he is 11 next its 12 standing there.
12th Doctor- New kidneys. I have new kidneys! I don't like the colour.
Clara- Of your kidneys? What's happening?
Doctor- We're crashing.
Clara- Into what?
Doctor- Stay calm. I only have one question. Do you happen to know how to fly this thing?
And so 11 is gone and 12 is here.
Overall I enjoyed this episode and where it does have problems its more down to the fact its a xmas episode and the need to tick a few boxes from across the 11 era and answer some questions.
From a fanboy perspective all those parts complete a lot of unanswered questions, but from the perspective of just this episode they get in the way.
The other main problem is the need to try to balance what is really a story arc intense story with a typical xmas episode and the light and the dark never quite gel.
Matt is outstanding as the ageing Doctor and anyone not moved by his final speech and seeing his past before his eyes is probably dead or Mrs Figg ( mind you I almost wished I had been in the room with her when Amy made her brief appearance!) and Capaldi made an instant impression on me that was all positive. I cant wait to see what he does with the role.
So not the greatest episode of Who ever made, but not a bad one either. And taken as the final part in a trilogy that started with Name of the Doctor its a fine conclusion to that story as well as tying up all those loose ends from series 5 and 6.
And in a year which has seen us get a new series, a 50h special, an excellent docudrama about the shows origins and lots of beautiful extras like Night of the Doctor with 8 I have to say Moffat has certainly spoiled us in the anniversary year. It would be churlish to say otherwise, he has pulled out all the stops the BBC will let him for the show this year and this old Whovian for one is very grateful to him for doing so.
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Re: Doctor Who [8]
by azriel Thu Dec 26, 2013 10:31 am
I watched "WHO" last night & even though I didnt want Matt smith to go, there was nothing else left for him. To see him aging was sad, his loyalty to the people of "Christmas" was touching, Clara popping in & out of his life kept him going I think. But that last spurt when the Daleks were right on top of him reminded why I liked Matt so much as this Dr, & why I still dont want him to go. But, Fiction reflects life, & now we have Capaldi. My first thought was the look on Clara's face, she LOOKED like she was thinking "wow, old guy". It has been a good year for Who lovers, I caught up with "Who at the Proms" which I missed earlier, & felt all emotional, I wish I'd been there ! Like this old 2013 year,we gotta let go of the old & try to welcome the new. I hope Capaldi gets me over the loss of Smith reasonably quickly & injects something original & "of his own" into the show.
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Re: Doctor Who [8]
by Mrs Figg Thu Dec 26, 2013 10:38 am
My review
- Spoiler:
- Is time for Moffat to go, this episode was like watching him sweep all the past plot devices and characters and make mincemeat of them, stuff them all in and take his cash. He got paid for this rubbish. Clara was made out to be a horrible, shallow, lying, airhead. WHO Leaves their invited relatives at a Christmas dinner, at least TWICE, to go prancing after the Doctor? This makes her look like a complete jerk. We first see her running around like a headless chicken, demanding the Doctor drop everything even though she knows he probably has better things to be doing, like saving the Universe and small dogs. But no, she demands his presence to baste the Turkey that symbolizes this episode. and she has weak mindedly lied to her parents and grandmother. nice touch. She then proceeds to bob up and down as she hears the Doctor come and go, at least Three times during the meal. But Clara doesnt care about her parents and gran, well her mum is just a weak copy of Donna's anyway, so who cares. Then theres gran, she tells Clara a tear jerker, and what does Clara do? She starts crying, not in sympathy with her gran but because she is self pityingly thinking of the Doctor the Whole time. She is not crying FOR her gran but for HERSELF. nice. Then she Leaves everyone on Christmas day because obviously the Doctor is far more important than family. Then at the very end of the episode we see her going into Santas grotto (crack) and asking for a new toy because this one is broken. wow whattagal. Then the story itself, crammed for of derivative tosh, the Doctor getting all sentimental and weepy over a Cyborg ala Tom Hanks in Castaway.' ooh Handles me old mate dont die' *sob* ITS a CYBORG, you know your enemy, but in this episode the Cyborg has turned into a cuddly toy, a wittle fwend, how sweet. Then theres the endless stream of past glories, for about 5 minutes each, a bit like the Ghost of Christmas Past lining up for a 'wwwhhhhhooooooo *spooky cackle* its behind you'. yeah seen the Stone Angels a million times and they aint scary any more. As to the rest we get a female 'pope who wants to shag the Doctor on a velvet altar-bed, you know, the most powerful woman in the Universe and all she wants to do is lick his face. good grief this gets tired quickly. Then theres the underwhelming Capaldi, gimlet eyed and inefectual. There is no excuse for this tired rehash, Moffat needs to go.
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Re: Doctor Who [8]
by azriel Thu Dec 26, 2013 10:52 am
Fair points on all of that Figgy ! I remember seeing a scoop where Matt & Co said it was going to be (this episode) spectacular etc, So thats what I was expecting. It wasnt spectacular to me, I just like Matt & will miss him. For me there were one or two "wot if" moments, I dont think I ever felt that this was meant to be the end of it all, *gets hold of anyone by shirt collar & shakes them hard* 50 yrs of WHO & its meant to be the end ?? Its got to be more nail bitting than the episode I saw. I do think the story was weak for that. And the only reason we have a new Dr ? Time Lords slipped in a bit of magic dust. So thats ok then. I dont see the point of a terrifying omen of doom by saying there cannot be anymore Dr's if when it suits them Time Lords get all Pixie dust on us. Takes away the fear & dread. But I am glad as I dont want Dr Who to ever end but, the stories have to tighter, edgier, less schmaltzie also please ! Leave the adoration to me, I want "assistants,associates" to be with more "grip" ?
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Re: Doctor Who [8]
by Pettytyrant101 Thu Dec 26, 2013 3:47 pm
Im not sure why you have a go at Clara as you do Figg given how often Rose runs off and abandons her mum (hell she gets Mickey arrested and ostracized on suspicion of her abduction and murder without giving him a second thought to run off with the Doctor- so you seem to operate a bit of a double standard here- I mean- leaving your family on xmas day to go off with the Doctor- or leaving your family and your boyfriend to think youve been abducted and murdered? Which would you say was worse?)
Azriel- whoever was in charge of the show when the regen limit was reached was going to have to deal with it by slight of hand one way or the other- the choice was between Moffats solution which has been the entire 11 run in the building, or making something up in the last minute with a line of dialogue and hoping noone notices like RTD used to do. I prefer Moffats approach to address the issue properly over a long period. (The Time Lord Council has always been able to give out regen cycles- hell they gave a whole new cycle to the Master in the Five Doctors just for doing them a favour so Moff didnt just make that idea up, its long standing Who canon- the trick was having Time Lords about to award it)
Azriel- whoever was in charge of the show when the regen limit was reached was going to have to deal with it by slight of hand one way or the other- the choice was between Moffats solution which has been the entire 11 run in the building, or making something up in the last minute with a line of dialogue and hoping noone notices like RTD used to do. I prefer Moffats approach to address the issue properly over a long period. (The Time Lord Council has always been able to give out regen cycles- hell they gave a whole new cycle to the Master in the Five Doctors just for doing them a favour so Moff didnt just make that idea up, its long standing Who canon- the trick was having Time Lords about to award it)
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Compiled and annotated by Eldy.
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*Pure Publications reserves the right to track your usage of this publication, snoop on your home address, go through your bins and sell personal information on to the highest bidder.
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Re: Doctor Who [8]
by Mrs Figg Thu Dec 26, 2013 4:08 pm
oh dear heres the old 'Rose did it' argument' because I dared to critisize Clara. Rose was years ago, we are talking about Clara, not some tit for tat whos assistant is bestest stuff. In any case ALL the Doctors assistants run off to be with him, thats the Whole point, apart from Donna and she didnt have much choice on her wedding day. I am talking about the fact most assistants run off with him if they have the world to save, something important, but Clara only needs him to lie to her parents and cook a Turkey, hardly reason to leave them in the lurch.
I thought Moffat was supposed to be using the plot device of a Christmasy background to tell this story? and what does it say about Christmas? It says that in Moffat world family is not as important as the Doctor, he comes first second and third. That the assistants are just mindless puppets dangling to his tune ready to dump relatives on Christmas Day. Its unpleasant.
I thought Moffat was supposed to be using the plot device of a Christmasy background to tell this story? and what does it say about Christmas? It says that in Moffat world family is not as important as the Doctor, he comes first second and third. That the assistants are just mindless puppets dangling to his tune ready to dump relatives on Christmas Day. Its unpleasant.
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Re: Doctor Who [8]
by Pettytyrant101 Thu Dec 26, 2013 4:34 pm
Its got nothing to do with you critiziig Clara- as Ive said before I am not yet sold on her as a character (although I thought giving her a job in Day and now showing her family is a step in the right direction) it has to do with the apparent double standard you apply when talking about Moff writing in contrast to RTD- you have a bad habit of complaining about stuff Moff writes in Who that RTD was much worse at- Clara leaving her family on xmas day to go with the Doctor is one of them- RTD has Rose do much, much worse in her treatment of her family and her selfishness regards the Doctor and Ive never heard you claim its a sign RTD hates all womankind. Moff has her leave the dinner table and you have her pegged down as an example of Moffats blatant sexism and disregard for all women- its unbelievable.
As to using xmas as a background- its the story of a person who has God like powers to move in space and time, sacrifices his life to save the lives of strangers, dies and is resurrected- sounds pretty xmassy to me.
As to using xmas as a background- its the story of a person who has God like powers to move in space and time, sacrifices his life to save the lives of strangers, dies and is resurrected- sounds pretty xmassy to me.
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Re: Doctor Who [8]
by Tinuviel Thu Dec 26, 2013 5:19 pm
For the longest time I loved moffat, but this year, or season rather, I feel like he lost his grip, and got kind of list in his own vision. The storylines were hard to follow and left me confused one episode to the next. I liked the over arching storylines because they gave him a sense of structure that he could create from. This whole pulling stories out of a hat idea didn't work for me. Sure the Clara impossible girl thing was a storyline, but it picked up in the middle of the series.
I don't know, maybe it's just me growing out of it or the show getting tired, but I'm not loving where who is headed
I don't know, maybe it's just me growing out of it or the show getting tired, but I'm not loving where who is headed
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Re: Doctor Who [8]
by Mrs Figg Thu Dec 26, 2013 5:19 pm
Pettytyrant101 wrote:Its got nothing to do with you critiziig Clara- as Ive said before I am not yet sold on her as a character (although I thought giving her a job in Day and now showing her family is a step in the right direction) it has to do with the apparent double standard you apply when talking about Moff writing in contrast to RTD- you have a bad habit of complaining about stuff Moff writes in Who that RTD was much worse at- Clara leaving her family on xmas day to go with the Doctor is one of them- RTD has Rose do much, much worse in her treatment of her family and her selfishness regards the Doctor and Ive never heard you claim its a sign RTD hates all womankind. Moff has her leave the dinner table and you have her pegged down as an example of Moffats blatant sexism and disregard for all women- its unbelievable.
As to using xmas as a background- its the story of a person who has God like powers to move in space and time, sacrifices his life to save the lives of strangers, dies and is resurrected- sounds pretty xmassy to me.
someones got his knickers in a twist. 'Bad Habit' my arse
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Re: Doctor Who [8]
by Mrs Figg Thu Dec 26, 2013 5:51 pm
What I cant stand in Moffat World is the reliance of over confusing plot devices with arbitrary rules and get-out-of-jail-free cards. the best timey wimey story of nuWho is probably Father's Day where Rose goes back and saves her father from a car accident that happened when she was a baby. It's clear, strong storytelling she makes a bad choice, there are terrible consequences, and in the end a sacrifice is required to set things on track again. That episode adds many deep layers to Rose as a character, how she has been damaged by loss and how much her family means to her, and also gives us an understanding on Ecclestons mix of rage and compassion. He takes second stage to Rose, he doesnt try to dominate the scene with bombastic ranting as Smith does, the Doctor is a quiet and sad witness to the unfolding pain and loss. We haven't had a time-travel story as clear and satisfying as that in years.
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Re: Doctor Who [8]
by Pettytyrant101 Thu Dec 26, 2013 7:13 pm
Ok lets call it a trend Figg- there is trend since Moffat took over of you accusing him of various things from rampant sexism to being unable to write when there are far worse more glaring examples in the RTD era you seem entirely blind to.
"but I'm not loving where who is headed"- Tinuvuel
But thats the thing with Who, constant state of change and flux, it has no heading and can just easily go off in another direction as stay the same.
In my own experience I drifted away from the show during the late 5th Doctor period and didnt watch regularly again till NuWho started- and I drifted away from NUWho during the 10 era and had to go back and rewatch a load of them as I gave up all hope during that point.
For me 11 and Moff era Who is the closest it has got to recapturing the pleasure I got out the show as a kid.
Capaldi starts with a clean slate though- no story arcs left over- no Silence, no Amy, no Church, no Oldest Question, no Cracks in Time, no destroyed Gallifrey, no Trenzalore- all resolved, so the future can go anywhere now.
"but I'm not loving where who is headed"- Tinuvuel
But thats the thing with Who, constant state of change and flux, it has no heading and can just easily go off in another direction as stay the same.
In my own experience I drifted away from the show during the late 5th Doctor period and didnt watch regularly again till NuWho started- and I drifted away from NUWho during the 10 era and had to go back and rewatch a load of them as I gave up all hope during that point.
For me 11 and Moff era Who is the closest it has got to recapturing the pleasure I got out the show as a kid.
Capaldi starts with a clean slate though- no story arcs left over- no Silence, no Amy, no Church, no Oldest Question, no Cracks in Time, no destroyed Gallifrey, no Trenzalore- all resolved, so the future can go anywhere now.
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Re: Doctor Who [8]
by Pettytyrant101 Thu Dec 26, 2013 7:22 pm
deleted scene-
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Re: Doctor Who [8]
by Pettytyrant101 Thu Dec 26, 2013 7:23 pm
Behind the scenes making of-
Overnight figures of 8.8 million so prob end up abuo 11 -12 million consolidated- pretty dam good given the BBC decided to put it up against the xmas episode of Coronation Street (which it beat).
Overnight figures of 8.8 million so prob end up abuo 11 -12 million consolidated- pretty dam good given the BBC decided to put it up against the xmas episode of Coronation Street (which it beat).
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Re: Doctor Who [8]
by Mrs Figg Thu Dec 26, 2013 7:35 pm
'Ok lets call it a trend Figg- there is trend since Moffat took over of you accusing him of various things from rampant sexism to being unable to write when there are far worse more glaring examples in the RTD ..
Call it what you like petal.
The rampant sexism is demonstratedly evident to anyone who doesnt have a vested interest in defending Moffat at any cost. Its not just me who sees the sexism in his writing, there are literally thousands of people who agree with me.
He is also a bad and lazy writer, fact.
I dont really care if you dont like my opinions, if you take offence that I dislike Moffat the Muppet its not really my problem. I will continue giving my opinion despite your comments and belittling of my opinion. Is it a 'trend'? probably.
Call it what you like petal.
The rampant sexism is demonstratedly evident to anyone who doesnt have a vested interest in defending Moffat at any cost. Its not just me who sees the sexism in his writing, there are literally thousands of people who agree with me.
He is also a bad and lazy writer, fact.
I dont really care if you dont like my opinions, if you take offence that I dislike Moffat the Muppet its not really my problem. I will continue giving my opinion despite your comments and belittling of my opinion. Is it a 'trend'? probably.
Last edited by Mrs Figg on Thu Dec 26, 2013 7:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Doctor Who [8]
by Pettytyrant101 Thu Dec 26, 2013 7:50 pm
The rampant sexism is demonstratedly evident to anyone who doesnt have a vested interest in defending Moffat at any cost. - Mrs Figg
I assume you dont actually read my episode reviews if you think I defend him at any cost- if something doesn't work for me I say so.
"Its not just me who sees the sexism in his writing, there are literally thousands of people who agree with me. "
Given I lurk on a number of Who forums I am aware of the accusations against him, and as with other things in life I have always found those argument not good enough, and the arguments against stronger.
Nor do I see evidence of it in his other writing, whether thats Press Gang, Coupling or Sherlock (although in my review of Scandal in Bohemia I did criticise the change to the ending)
"He is also a bad and lazy writer, fact."
That must explain why he is showrunner on the BBC's two most successful world wide drama products and one of the busiest men in television. He is just so lazy.
"I will continue giving my opinion despite your snide comments and belittling of my opinion."
I wasn't belittling your opinion, I was disagreeing with it and pointing out what seem to me to be inconsistency in your view point, such as your seeming blind spot to when similar events occur in RTD era Who and passed you by without comment, yet you are all over Moffat even if he does something much lesser (like Clara leaving her family during xmas whilst ignoring Rose leaving her mother to think she has been abducted and possibly murdered, and her boyfriend to be intimidated by Rose's mothers friends and repeatedly questioned by the Police over her disappearance- yet apparently Clara doing what she did is an example of what an uncaring nasty female she is who only thinks of the Doctor and herself, and what Rose does is somehow a shining beacon of feminism- I dont understand how you can view these things in the way you do beyond it being a personal bias for some reason against Moffat)
I assume you dont actually read my episode reviews if you think I defend him at any cost- if something doesn't work for me I say so.
"Its not just me who sees the sexism in his writing, there are literally thousands of people who agree with me. "
Given I lurk on a number of Who forums I am aware of the accusations against him, and as with other things in life I have always found those argument not good enough, and the arguments against stronger.
Nor do I see evidence of it in his other writing, whether thats Press Gang, Coupling or Sherlock (although in my review of Scandal in Bohemia I did criticise the change to the ending)
"He is also a bad and lazy writer, fact."
That must explain why he is showrunner on the BBC's two most successful world wide drama products and one of the busiest men in television. He is just so lazy.
"I will continue giving my opinion despite your snide comments and belittling of my opinion."
I wasn't belittling your opinion, I was disagreeing with it and pointing out what seem to me to be inconsistency in your view point, such as your seeming blind spot to when similar events occur in RTD era Who and passed you by without comment, yet you are all over Moffat even if he does something much lesser (like Clara leaving her family during xmas whilst ignoring Rose leaving her mother to think she has been abducted and possibly murdered, and her boyfriend to be intimidated by Rose's mothers friends and repeatedly questioned by the Police over her disappearance- yet apparently Clara doing what she did is an example of what an uncaring nasty female she is who only thinks of the Doctor and herself, and what Rose does is somehow a shining beacon of feminism- I dont understand how you can view these things in the way you do beyond it being a personal bias for some reason against Moffat)
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Re: Doctor Who [8]
by Pettytyrant101 Thu Dec 26, 2013 7:53 pm
{{{and xmas isnt xmas without a good fight! I should have known I could rely on you Figg 
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Re: Doctor Who [8]
by Mrs Figg Thu Dec 26, 2013 7:56 pm
hey this is our last Fight of the year. (((maybe
))))
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Re: Doctor Who [8]
by malickfan Thu Dec 26, 2013 7:57 pm
I'm taking no sides in this argument, I agree with both of you to an extent. And I how no doubt at all Capaldi has the potential to be brilliant, depending on the writing.
BUT I do think Davies and Moffat's problems were worsened by them having all the control-why does the showrunner, executive producer and head writer have to be the same person? And why is it always a Bloke?
I think separating the duties to different people could give the team more energy and breathing room.
BUT I do think Davies and Moffat's problems were worsened by them having all the control-why does the showrunner, executive producer and head writer have to be the same person? And why is it always a Bloke?
I think separating the duties to different people could give the team more energy and breathing room.
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