Doctor Who [12]

I'm curious about the source for the claim that there is more violence these days because every statistic I have read for any number of different measures of violence (murder rates, assaults, death tolls in wars, etc.) are at historic or near-historic lows in the present day. Violent crime in particular plummeted in the late '80s/early '90s, which is around the time that console video games started getting really popular, not that I think there's any connection between the two.

halfwise wrote:Parents are generally working harder now than in the past with less time to mind the children, and this may have as large a part to do with the general breakdown in discipline as the shift in approach.  Any long time teacher will tell you they feel more called upon to raise kids as sort of substitute parents than in the past.  As much as people want to blame the parents for this, the fact is they are often working two jobs just to get by.  At least that's the story in the States.

My Missus is a teacher and I guarantee you, Halfy, that you're right on the money. As to the old days, Julia, I suspect parents in the good old days whacked their kids as much because of a bad day they were having eroding their patience as it was kids deserving what they got though. And a lot of it was Old Testament Patrirachal aresholeness which their loving-chattels (their wives, that is) also executed in duty and because the bad days they had. Not saying a whack for the right reason with the appropriate amount of force may always be inappropriate, but I prefer things as they are now, overall. Kids are not really any worse than they were in more - allegedly - disciplined times. Indeed, there was less pressure on grown ups back then. They could discipline their kids whether there was justification for it or not. And rules I was brought up under are still ones I'd rebel against today. That 'be seen and not heard' as it applied to both women and children, still makes my teeth grind. Just saying.

Eldorion wrote:I'm curious about the source for the claim that there is more violence these days because every statistic I have read for any number of different measures of violence (murder rates, assaults, death tolls in wars, etc.) are at historic or near-historic lows in the present day. Violent crime in particular plummeted in the late '80s/early '90s, which is around the time that console video games started getting really popular, not that I think there's any connection between the two.

Yeah, Eldo. Clearly I agree.

I think there's a perception of more violence just because we are more connected now, and the news devices are likely to generate things that get more clicks, like violence.

I think you're right, Halfy. Kids are freer to act and in the area of manners, be les mannered at times, but most kids are still good kids, allowing for some tantrums and disobedience now and then. Kids are just more 'heard' more often and no adults have ever liked kid's thoughts on things.

(Digression: And generally asking stupid questions: 'Can I have one of your cigs, Daddy?' 'Fuck off, Pugsley, or I'll ram my fist up your arse!' 'But Dady, didn't you start smoking when you were eight?' 'That was back when kids were more grown up and respectful and resilient you little fucker. Now fuck off and play your Grand Theft Auto, which I hear is quite educational. Get.')

I seem to remember that I was the same, back in the 20th century, of course, when not every home had their own steam automotive or a wire service nearby.

In my experience, kids these days are actually sweeter and more respectful than we were, in many situations. But the bad ones are worse.

The bad ones get more rein and don't necessarily get pulled up until there's nothing left but gaol.

halfwise wrote:I think there's a perception of more violence just because we are more connected now, and the news devices are likely to generate things that get more clicks, like violence.

I think this is true.

the increase in violence is real, drug crimes didn't exist as we know them today 30 years ago.

Huh? Thirty years ago was 1986, aka the middle of the crack epidemic in the US and the height of Pablo Escobar's power in Colombia.

I guess when someone says "drug crime", my first thought is of the Vietnam War and the Hell's Angels and other biker gangs with their heroine turf wars, but I'm sure my grandfather and his brothers would have thought of the Prohibition of alcohol in the 1920's (not that they necessarily had anything to do with that..... )

Eldorion wrote:Huh? Thirty years ago was 1986, aka the middle of the crack epidemic in the US and the height of Pablo Escobar's power in Colombia.

ok 40 years ago.  the point was that crack is relatively recent at least in the UK. its changed dramatically within living memory. ie, mine. its probably true to say crime has changed as has violence. when I was a kid old grannies weren't mugged by crackheads because crackheads didn't exist.

I have suspended this thread, believing it to be cursed.

Please cease all discussions of the recent sad affair anywhere else for the nonce, and PM me if you have issues or questions. I have decided this and Eldo and Amarie have agreed to my bullying on the issue, accept that, as a somewhat uninvolved hobbit in the affair, I am probably the best placed Moderator to deal with this unilaterally and take the bouquets or flak that comes of it.

I will delete any posts ANYWHERE (for the nonce) that I think contravenes my stand. PM me if you have queries to gently put or arrows to shoot.

In not too long awhile - fingers crossed - a new Who thread will be started. Eldo and Amarie have left the when and if decision in my hands.

One last thing before I go. Many cooks spoiled the broth here and make no mistake.

Cheers,
Orwell

NB If your drug discussion isn't finished, please feel free to start one up on the Big Bad Serious Forum. I'm off to take some as we speak.