Waiting for 'The Battle of the Five Armies' [2]

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Post by Bluebottle Mon Dec 01, 2014 5:12 pm

I find it funny how, with Norc not around, that Eldo seems to be the most positive person about the movies on here, and his perspecitve seems to be, "Hopefully it won't all be appaulingly bad." Razz

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Post by parzival Mon Dec 01, 2014 5:13 pm

It's actually bizarre to see people defending Jackson over there. Just straight up crazy. When all of the bad decisions are added up a truly ugly picture emerges. It sounds like he completely destroys the story.
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Post by Tinuviel Mon Dec 01, 2014 5:25 pm

I just can't understand how he did so well with the LOTR trilogy and has done so terribly with the Hobbit. I just can't understand. In my mind it makes me think that there's someone else holding the strings this time. That's why I brought up the producers earlier. Sure PJ has a hand in everything creatively, but I wonder if he actually has the final say.

As far as the part he plays in the films, his obsession and preference for CGI has been commented on by the actors and several critics as well. I think at least four of the actors (Lee, Ian, Richard, and Mikael) have discussed how bizarre it is to be surrounded by nothing but green and how awkward and unnatural it is. In the DOS EE, when they're filming Beorn's house, every single actor who talked to the camera was questioning why a giant green screen was being put up in front of the beautiful mountain that NATURALLY OCCURRED IN THE BACKGROUND. I hate it. I just watched Tora!Tora!Tora! with my family this weekend and I was amazed at how good the practical effects were. I imagine that it was expensive to do, but probably not as expensive as CGI. JUST BUILD THE DAMN SETS AND MINIATURES! If it ain't broke don't fix it! HE WON 17 OSCARS!!!!! HOW IS THAT NOT A SIGN YOU DID SOMETHING RIGHT THE FIRST TIME AROUND.

And I'm going to eat lunch now but that reveiw..... I'll be back...

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Post by malickfan Mon Dec 01, 2014 5:27 pm

parzival wrote:It's actually bizarre to see people defending Jackson over there.  Just straight up crazy.  When all of the bad decisions are added up a truly ugly picture emerges.  It sounds like he completely destroys the story.  

Well TORn more or less owes its existence to PJ's films (to be fair so does this forum) I'm not entirely sure how it is funded but I presume the adverts for all the Weta merchandising help, there is nothing wrong with being positive, but I have to confess I'm not overly fond of the way TORn is run, anyone who has strong opinions (be they positive or negative) seems to be immediately leapt on and moderated to hell, I don't find it fun to have a discussion over there because it seems everyone would rather praise the good and ignore the bad. For a site 'Forged by and For Tolkien Fans' alot of the posters seem rather ignorant or disinterested in the way the books are adapted, more than once I have seen the opnion expressed Peter Jackson has done a better job at furthering Tolkien's legacy than his son Christopher has...

By no means is everyone on the forum like that, it is a very strong very popular community, but it easy to see why certain posters have got disenchanted with the place...

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Post by malickfan Mon Dec 01, 2014 5:31 pm

Tinuviel wrote:I just can't understand how he did so well with the LOTR trilogy and has done so terribly with the Hobbit. I just can't understand. In my mind it makes me think that there's someone else holding the strings this time. That's why I brought up the producers earlier. Sure PJ has a hand in everything creatively, but I wonder if he actually has the final say.

As far as the part he plays in the films, his obsession and preference for CGI has been commented on by the actors and several critics as well. I think at least four of the actors (Lee, Ian, Richard, and Mikael) have discussed how bizarre it is to be surrounded by nothing but green and how awkward and unnatural it is. In the DOS EE, when they're filming Beorn's house, every single actor who talked to the camera was questioning why a giant green screen was being put up in front of the beautiful mountain that NATURALLY OCCURRED IN THE BACKGROUND. I hate it. I just watched Tora!Tora!Tora! with my family this weekend and I was amazed at how good the practical effects were. I imagine that it was expensive to do, but probably not as expensive as CGI. JUST BUILD THE DAMN SETS AND MINIATURES! If it ain't broke don't fix it! HE WON 17 OSCARS!!!!! HOW IS THAT NOT A SIGN YOU DID SOMETHING RIGHT THE FIRST TIME AROUND.

And I'm going to eat lunch now but that reveiw..... I'll be back...

I think it boils down to Jackson A) Not being overly fond of the source material (I would classify him as LOTR fan not a Tolkien lover) or the prospect of jumping into a massive production at short notice, derailing other projects by years B) Having too much money and freedom than was good for him, there was no one from New Line or a massive fanbase keeping him on a lease this time around, in many peoples eyes he had earned the right to do what he wanted coz of LOTR C)The CGi stuff is sadly just a reflection of the way the industry is going

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The Sod-it! : Battling my Indifference December 2014 (You know what they say, third time's the charm)

Well, that was worth the wait wasn't it  Suspect


I think what comes out of a pig's rear end is more akin to what Peejers has given us-Azriel 20/9/2014
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Post by Pettytyrant101 Mon Dec 01, 2014 5:33 pm

In my mind it makes me think that there's someone else holding the strings this time.- Tin

I really think its all Pj, Boyens and the other one. And all them.
As I mentioned above the basic underlying problems with TH films are the same objections I was raising to the LotR's films before TH films even existed. They are just greatly magnified, but the issues and stuff thats wrong is just the same at core.

It all comes down to how they script their films, which is haphazard to say the least. There is no clear vision at any point, everything seems to be in a state of constant flux.
All films undergo changes post, radical ones often, but I've never heard of any other films being scripted in quite the manner PJ seems to have gone about it in TH films. LotR's was bad enough for daily rewrites and even hourly rewrites every day, but this is something else again.

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Post by Mrs Figg Mon Dec 01, 2014 5:49 pm

the guy from TORn on Legolas stuff in the film FULL REVIEW

SPOILERS
Spoiler:


Last edited by Mrs Figg on Mon Dec 01, 2014 6:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by parzival Mon Dec 01, 2014 5:54 pm

malickfan wrote:
I think it boils down to Jackson A) Not being overly fond of the source material (I would classify him as LOTR fan not a Tolkien lover) or the prospect of jumping into a massive production at short notice, derailing other projects by years B) Having too much money and freedom than was good for him, there was no one from New Line or a massive fanbase keeping him on a lease this time around, in many peoples eyes he had earned the right to do what he wanted coz of LOTR C)The CGi stuff is sadly just a reflection of the way the industry is going

Yes I couldn't agree more.  I don't think it's a stretch to say he isn't fond of the source material given the way he's altered the story.  I think the limitations he faced on LOTR quite worked to the film's benefit, forcing creative problem solving.  And there's no better person than Peter Jackson himself to demonstrate this as he explains in this interview how he wanted CGI black riders in Fellowship but couldn't get the budget for it.  

[/quote]
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Post by malickfan Mon Dec 01, 2014 6:08 pm

Mrs Figg wrote:the guy from TORn on Legolas stuff in the film FULL REVIEW

SPOILERS
Spoiler:

Sounds like we will be getting a very Extended Edition.

The question is will any of us want to watch it?

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I think what comes out of a pig's rear end is more akin to what Peejers has given us-Azriel 20/9/2014
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Post by malickfan Mon Dec 01, 2014 6:11 pm

parzival wrote:
malickfan wrote:
I think it boils down to Jackson A) Not being overly fond of the source material (I would classify him as LOTR fan not a Tolkien lover) or the prospect of jumping into a massive production at short notice, derailing other projects by years B) Having too much money and freedom than was good for him, there was no one from New Line or a massive fanbase keeping him on a lease this time around, in many peoples eyes he had earned the right to do what he wanted coz of LOTR C)The CGi stuff is sadly just a reflection of the way the industry is going

Yes I couldn't agree more.  I don't think it's a stretch to say he isn't fond of the source material given the way he's altered the story.  I think the limitations he faced on LOTR quite worked to the film's benefit, forcing creative problem solving.  And there's no better person than Peter Jackson himself to demonstrate this as he explains in this interview how he wanted CGI black riders in Fellowship but couldn't get the budget for it.  

[/quote]

CGI Ringwraiths? No Rolling Eyes slap laugh

Well, at least if Tintin 2 actually happens he'll have more experience in filming things like its a computer game...

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The Tauriel: Desolation of Canon December 2013 (Accurate again!)
The Sod-it! : Battling my Indifference December 2014 (You know what they say, third time's the charm)

Well, that was worth the wait wasn't it  Suspect


I think what comes out of a pig's rear end is more akin to what Peejers has given us-Azriel 20/9/2014
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Post by Mrs Figg Mon Dec 01, 2014 6:34 pm

I am in a funk. I was trying to find a word suitable for my mood, and this American saying seems to fit how I feel perfectly. its a restless, frustrated, tired, anxious but I dont know why kind of feeling, and I could happily punch something, but I am feeling far too sorry for myself to bother. I am funky funkster of funky town doing the funky chicken. No Suspect
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Post by Pettytyrant101 Mon Dec 01, 2014 6:40 pm

Do you know what good for curing a funk Mrs Figg? Housework. Excellent cure. Particularly the scrubbing and hosing down of a certain barrel and cleaning the fridge. Nod

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Post by Tinuviel Mon Dec 01, 2014 6:50 pm

I quite literally threw my hands up to the sky and asked "How is this possible? How does this happen?" because I'm legitimately confused. I'm angry. In fact, if ever I'm asked what inspired me to do film (if film ends up being the medium I work through) I will say the Lord of the Rings. The first trilogy awakened me to the beauty of cinema. The second made me want to make something better, it made me angry. It's so frustrating when you know there are people out there who could have done a better job but they just don't get the chance. Sure, some fans will say the Hobbit films are good, but in a few years they'll be forgotten. If anything is going to get a reboot, it's the Hobbit.

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Post by bungobaggins Mon Dec 01, 2014 7:02 pm

Sinister71 wrote:
bungobaggins wrote:I don't know what to say. I sat through DOS somehow, I don't think I can sit through this.

Again I am with you Bungo,  Jackson and WB won't even get my 5 dollar matinee contribution this time around. I mean serious why waste the money on a garbage film that considered none of the originals traits when putting this whole "we need a trilogy" nonsense together. It gave them ample time to tell the story Tolkien intended with the inclusion of the appendices and we get fucking NONE OF IT!!!!!! Banghead Extremely Crabbit Extremely Crabbit Extremely Crabbit Extremely Crabbit Extremely Crabbit Extremely Crabbit Banghead

Personally I'm not going and I'm gonna talk as many people I can out of going to it. I mean fuck it dvds come out in just a few months anyways so I'll just borrow it and watch it then so as I don't give a single penny to anyone associated with this film. I'll still hang here to get the scoop and find out how truly appalling this steaming pile of shite is. I am officially done with these hobbit films... here's to looking forward to a remake sooner than later

I think I'll go see Exodus instead. Looks like an interesting return to the biblical epic. I can wait a few months to torrent Bofa. The previous DVDs came out in March and April IIRC. Not too long of a wait. If friends want me to see the movie with them I'm just going to be honest. Some things I read about it on the internet really turned me off to it, I'll pass.

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Post by feanor 1999 Mon Dec 01, 2014 7:08 pm

Ahhh Fuck it...

All of a sudden I want to see giant worms.... And not from the bottom of a bottle of Tequila... Wink

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Post by Tinuviel Mon Dec 01, 2014 7:16 pm

Also, I'm watching the premier right now, there have been a couple jabs at the Silmarilion, which I'm wondering if it's a jab at the Tolkien Estate indirectly.... There's also been two instances (one by Martin, the other by Sir Ian,) where they insinuate that if you don't like the movies then you aren't a true fan. Lots of lipservice about New Zealand and PJ being a great director and Orlando even said he thinks Tolkien would be proud of the films. Hahahah NO. Cumberbatch is the only one to actually give Tolkien credit where credit is due. Someone said he did a great job as Smaug, to which he said Tolkien did all the hard work in creating the character.

Also, PJ HASN'T EVEN SEEN IT YET AND LITERALLY JUST SAID "i HOPE i DON'T REGRET SOME OF THE DECISIONS i MADE" LIKE WHAT???!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? He said he sent it away to be finished a week ago and hasn't seen the final version.

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Post by Mrs Figg Mon Dec 01, 2014 7:22 pm

Giant Worms
Leggy riding Bats
Aragorn!!!

its barking bonkers. I think the problem is twofold, Jackson just wasnt interested much in the book, and he just wanted to play with his new toys. I think he got carried away with all the shiny new tech and thought he would be getting a few more Oscars for breaking new ground. Didnt happen, so he just went apeshit with the spectacle, his next favorite thing. Unfortunately the story got tsunamid under a tidalwave of plastic cgi and cardboard characters..
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Post by parzival Mon Dec 01, 2014 7:26 pm

I can't wait. I hope Legolas flies with a bat under each foot while shooting arrows.
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Post by bungobaggins Mon Dec 01, 2014 7:29 pm

Tinuviel wrote:Also, I'm watching the premier right now, there have been a couple jabs at the Silmarilion, which I'm wondering if it's a jab at the Tolkien Estate indirectly.... There's also been two instances (one by Martin, the other by Sir Ian,) where they insinuate that if you don't like the movies then you aren't a true fan. Lots of lipservice about New Zealand and PJ being a great director and Orlando even said he thinks Tolkien would be proud of the films. Hahahah NO. Cumberbatch is the only one to actually give Tolkien credit where credit is due. Someone said he did a great job as Smaug, to which he said Tolkien did all the hard work in creating the character.

Also, PJ HASN'T EVEN SEEN IT YET AND LITERALLY JUST SAID "i HOPE i DON'T REGRET SOME OF THE DECISIONS i MADE" LIKE WHAT???!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?  He said he sent it away to be finished a week ago and hasn't seen the final version.

A true fan of what? Of PJ? Well then yeah they're right. I fucking hate that guy right now. If they're talking about being a Tolkien fan then they can go to hell.

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Post by Tinuviel Mon Dec 01, 2014 7:36 pm

I feel like reading the Silmarillion right now simply out of spite. Or maybe even continue Children of Hurin because that is the furthest thing from The Hobbit that exists in that universe!

Also found out from watching the DOS EE that if the first screening of FOTR didn't go well at Cannes, then they would cut post-production efforts on the next two films. Thank Eru that wasn't the case. In terms of the Hobbit, I wonder if that initial showing of the HFR at cinemacon caused the lazy filmmaking we witness in all three films. If I remember correctly, that didn't get good reviews from anyone, so maybe WB removed some of their funding or something from the next two films.

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Post by Mrs Figg Mon Dec 01, 2014 7:56 pm

ok. the only way I can reconcile LOTR and TH is if I think of Jackson as Nice LOTR Jackson and his Evil Twin Hobbit Jackson.

phew thats better! Razz
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Post by Pettytyrant101 Mon Dec 01, 2014 7:58 pm

So, does that mean you are still scrubbing my barrel or not?

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Post by Eldorion Mon Dec 01, 2014 8:00 pm

What exactly did they say about the Silmarillion? I'm at work so I can't watch the stream.

On the topic of responsibility, I think this is clearly on PJ and Co. I loved LOTR too, but you can draw a clear line from the paths if the dead to gilded Smaug, or Leggy and the mumak and his bats.
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Post by Tinuviel Mon Dec 01, 2014 8:31 pm

Both Stephen Fry and Ken Stott were saying kind of off hand that Peter will probably find a way to make it into a movie. I don't know if there was any actual venom or hinting behind the words, but the mentioning of it twice and the relative fan whinings for a Sil film made me curious if there is something said somewhere or rather. PJ himself said this is the last time he'll be in middle earth EVER, so that's promising!

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Post by Elthir Mon Dec 01, 2014 8:58 pm

I think Jackson is done with Tolkien... I have estel he is done, in the English sense.

I'm even starting to sour on some of the admittedly fine visuals, or moments. I saw a clip of 'film four' again last night as I was surfing my shield... I mean my spider ... I mean my television (I was balancing atop it, changing channels)...

... and for a brief moment... Martin looking Bilbo-ish... looking at Rivendell... in my opinion a nice moment despite that Tolkien's Rivendell (again in my opinion) looked different than Jackson's (I'm no purist)... Bilbo was soaking in the wonder of an Elven realm... and there was a nice light upon it, the bridge, the spray below...

... sigh, so short a moment.

But that said, some of the nice visuals just remind me of the whole thing... and well, when the soup on the whole leaves a bad taste, even the 'mote moments' are being affected.
Elthir
Elthir
Sharrasi's prentice

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