Waiting for 'The Battle of the Five Armies' [2]
+21
Mrs Figg
malickfan
azriel
Pettytyrant101
Tinuviel
bungobaggins
Sinister71
chris63
David H
Ringdrotten
TranshumanAngel
Johnnyd
Amarië
feanor 1999
Norc
leelee
Elthir
RA
Bluebottle
Forest Shepherd
Eldorion
25 posters
Forumshire :: Middle-earth :: The Hobbit
Page 29 of 40
Page 29 of 40 • 
1 ... 16 ... 28, 29, 30 ... 34 ... 40
Re: Waiting for 'The Battle of the Five Armies' [2]
by Bluebottle Mon Dec 01, 2014 5:12 pm
I find it funny how, with Norc not around, that Eldo seems to be the most positive person about the movies on here, and his perspecitve seems to be, "Hopefully it won't all be appaulingly bad." 
_________________
“We're doomed,” he says, casually. “There's no question about that. But it's OK to be doomed because then you can just enjoy your life."
![Waiting for 'The Battle of the Five Armies' [2] - Page 29 Tumblr_msgi12FPjq1s8au6qo2_500](https://33.media.tumblr.com/de58a4b1ea8094e414d274be9532e12d/tumblr_msgi12FPjq1s8au6qo2_500.gif)
Bluebottle- Concerned citizen
- Posts : 10100
Join date : 2013-11-09
Age : 38
Re: Waiting for 'The Battle of the Five Armies' [2]
by parzival Mon Dec 01, 2014 5:13 pm
It's actually bizarre to see people defending Jackson over there. Just straight up crazy. When all of the bad decisions are added up a truly ugly picture emerges. It sounds like he completely destroys the story.
parzival- Burglar
- Posts : 69
Join date : 2014-09-06
Re: Waiting for 'The Battle of the Five Armies' [2]
by Tinuviel Mon Dec 01, 2014 5:25 pm
I just can't understand how he did so well with the LOTR trilogy and has done so terribly with the Hobbit. I just can't understand. In my mind it makes me think that there's someone else holding the strings this time. That's why I brought up the producers earlier. Sure PJ has a hand in everything creatively, but I wonder if he actually has the final say.
As far as the part he plays in the films, his obsession and preference for CGI has been commented on by the actors and several critics as well. I think at least four of the actors (Lee, Ian, Richard, and Mikael) have discussed how bizarre it is to be surrounded by nothing but green and how awkward and unnatural it is. In the DOS EE, when they're filming Beorn's house, every single actor who talked to the camera was questioning why a giant green screen was being put up in front of the beautiful mountain that NATURALLY OCCURRED IN THE BACKGROUND. I hate it. I just watched Tora!Tora!Tora! with my family this weekend and I was amazed at how good the practical effects were. I imagine that it was expensive to do, but probably not as expensive as CGI. JUST BUILD THE DAMN SETS AND MINIATURES! If it ain't broke don't fix it! HE WON 17 OSCARS!!!!! HOW IS THAT NOT A SIGN YOU DID SOMETHING RIGHT THE FIRST TIME AROUND.
And I'm going to eat lunch now but that reveiw..... I'll be back...
As far as the part he plays in the films, his obsession and preference for CGI has been commented on by the actors and several critics as well. I think at least four of the actors (Lee, Ian, Richard, and Mikael) have discussed how bizarre it is to be surrounded by nothing but green and how awkward and unnatural it is. In the DOS EE, when they're filming Beorn's house, every single actor who talked to the camera was questioning why a giant green screen was being put up in front of the beautiful mountain that NATURALLY OCCURRED IN THE BACKGROUND. I hate it. I just watched Tora!Tora!Tora! with my family this weekend and I was amazed at how good the practical effects were. I imagine that it was expensive to do, but probably not as expensive as CGI. JUST BUILD THE DAMN SETS AND MINIATURES! If it ain't broke don't fix it! HE WON 17 OSCARS!!!!! HOW IS THAT NOT A SIGN YOU DID SOMETHING RIGHT THE FIRST TIME AROUND.
And I'm going to eat lunch now but that reveiw..... I'll be back...
_________________
"I think that many confuse 'applicability' with 'allegory'; but the one resides in the freedom of the reader, and the other in the purposed domination of the author." -JRRT
![Waiting for 'The Battle of the Five Armies' [2] - Page 29 Tumblr_ndsrspapRL1qlqsnio3_500](https://33.media.tumblr.com/180826ead35802c931636879fcc1ff3d/tumblr_ndsrspapRL1qlqsnio3_500.gif)
Tinuviel- Finest Nose
- Posts : 1937
Join date : 2011-02-15
Age : 29
Re: Waiting for 'The Battle of the Five Armies' [2]
by malickfan Mon Dec 01, 2014 5:27 pm
parzival wrote:It's actually bizarre to see people defending Jackson over there. Just straight up crazy. When all of the bad decisions are added up a truly ugly picture emerges. It sounds like he completely destroys the story.
Well TORn more or less owes its existence to PJ's films (to be fair so does this forum) I'm not entirely sure how it is funded but I presume the adverts for all the Weta merchandising help, there is nothing wrong with being positive, but I have to confess I'm not overly fond of the way TORn is run, anyone who has strong opinions (be they positive or negative) seems to be immediately leapt on and moderated to hell, I don't find it fun to have a discussion over there because it seems everyone would rather praise the good and ignore the bad. For a site 'Forged by and For Tolkien Fans' alot of the posters seem rather ignorant or disinterested in the way the books are adapted, more than once I have seen the opnion expressed Peter Jackson has done a better job at furthering Tolkien's legacy than his son Christopher has...
By no means is everyone on the forum like that, it is a very strong very popular community, but it easy to see why certain posters have got disenchanted with the place...
_________________
The Thorin: An Unexpected Rewrite December 2012 (I was on the money apparently)
The Tauriel: Desolation of Canon December 2013 (Accurate again!)
The Sod-it! : Battling my Indifference December 2014 (You know what they say, third time's the charm)
Well, that was worth the wait wasn't it
I think what comes out of a pig's rear end is more akin to what Peejers has given us-Azriel 20/9/2014
malickfan- Adventurer
- Posts : 4989
Join date : 2013-09-10
Age : 32
Location : The (Hamp)shire, England
Re: Waiting for 'The Battle of the Five Armies' [2]
by malickfan Mon Dec 01, 2014 5:31 pm
Tinuviel wrote:I just can't understand how he did so well with the LOTR trilogy and has done so terribly with the Hobbit. I just can't understand. In my mind it makes me think that there's someone else holding the strings this time. That's why I brought up the producers earlier. Sure PJ has a hand in everything creatively, but I wonder if he actually has the final say.
As far as the part he plays in the films, his obsession and preference for CGI has been commented on by the actors and several critics as well. I think at least four of the actors (Lee, Ian, Richard, and Mikael) have discussed how bizarre it is to be surrounded by nothing but green and how awkward and unnatural it is. In the DOS EE, when they're filming Beorn's house, every single actor who talked to the camera was questioning why a giant green screen was being put up in front of the beautiful mountain that NATURALLY OCCURRED IN THE BACKGROUND. I hate it. I just watched Tora!Tora!Tora! with my family this weekend and I was amazed at how good the practical effects were. I imagine that it was expensive to do, but probably not as expensive as CGI. JUST BUILD THE DAMN SETS AND MINIATURES! If it ain't broke don't fix it! HE WON 17 OSCARS!!!!! HOW IS THAT NOT A SIGN YOU DID SOMETHING RIGHT THE FIRST TIME AROUND.
And I'm going to eat lunch now but that reveiw..... I'll be back...
I think it boils down to Jackson A) Not being overly fond of the source material (I would classify him as LOTR fan not a Tolkien lover) or the prospect of jumping into a massive production at short notice, derailing other projects by years B) Having too much money and freedom than was good for him, there was no one from New Line or a massive fanbase keeping him on a lease this time around, in many peoples eyes he had earned the right to do what he wanted coz of LOTR C)The CGi stuff is sadly just a reflection of the way the industry is going
_________________
The Thorin: An Unexpected Rewrite December 2012 (I was on the money apparently)
The Tauriel: Desolation of Canon December 2013 (Accurate again!)
The Sod-it! : Battling my Indifference December 2014 (You know what they say, third time's the charm)
Well, that was worth the wait wasn't it
I think what comes out of a pig's rear end is more akin to what Peejers has given us-Azriel 20/9/2014
malickfan- Adventurer
- Posts : 4989
Join date : 2013-09-10
Age : 32
Location : The (Hamp)shire, England
Re: Waiting for 'The Battle of the Five Armies' [2]
by Pettytyrant101 Mon Dec 01, 2014 5:33 pm
In my mind it makes me think that there's someone else holding the strings this time.- Tin
I really think its all Pj, Boyens and the other one. And all them.
As I mentioned above the basic underlying problems with TH films are the same objections I was raising to the LotR's films before TH films even existed. They are just greatly magnified, but the issues and stuff thats wrong is just the same at core.
It all comes down to how they script their films, which is haphazard to say the least. There is no clear vision at any point, everything seems to be in a state of constant flux.
All films undergo changes post, radical ones often, but I've never heard of any other films being scripted in quite the manner PJ seems to have gone about it in TH films. LotR's was bad enough for daily rewrites and even hourly rewrites every day, but this is something else again.
I really think its all Pj, Boyens and the other one. And all them.
As I mentioned above the basic underlying problems with TH films are the same objections I was raising to the LotR's films before TH films even existed. They are just greatly magnified, but the issues and stuff thats wrong is just the same at core.
It all comes down to how they script their films, which is haphazard to say the least. There is no clear vision at any point, everything seems to be in a state of constant flux.
All films undergo changes post, radical ones often, but I've never heard of any other films being scripted in quite the manner PJ seems to have gone about it in TH films. LotR's was bad enough for daily rewrites and even hourly rewrites every day, but this is something else again.
_________________
Pure Publications, The Tower of Lore and the Former Admin's Office are Reasonably Proud to Present-
A Green And Pleasant Land
Compiled and annotated by Eldy.
- get your copy here for a limited period- free*
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yjYiz8nuL3LqJ-yP9crpDKu_BH-1LwJU/view
*Pure Publications reserves the right to track your usage of this publication, snoop on your home address, go through your bins and sell personal information on to the highest bidder.
Warning may contain Wholesome Tales[/b]
A Green And Pleasant Land
Compiled and annotated by Eldy.
- get your copy here for a limited period- free*
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yjYiz8nuL3LqJ-yP9crpDKu_BH-1LwJU/view
*Pure Publications reserves the right to track your usage of this publication, snoop on your home address, go through your bins and sell personal information on to the highest bidder.
Warning may contain Wholesome Tales[/b]
the crabbit will suffer neither sleight of hand nor half-truths. - Forest
Pettytyrant101- Crabbitmeister
- Posts : 46837
Join date : 2011-02-14
Age : 53
Location : Scotshobbitland
Re: Waiting for 'The Battle of the Five Armies' [2]
by Mrs Figg Mon Dec 01, 2014 5:49 pm
the guy from TORn on Legolas stuff in the film FULL REVIEW
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
- Spoiler:
As with my DOS review, I will avoid the really good bits and leave those for you to discover. I will say this, the first 2/3 of this movie (even CGI Dain), do play out in a way that made me smile for most of the movie. Everything pre-battle is fantastic, and most of the actual battle is quite incredible.
A note re my DOS review. I think that my impressions on this film are much different than my impressions of DOS. Unlike that film I have not viewed any trailers clips or soundtrack samples. I went into BOTFA completely fresh. While I have grown to enjoy DOS (especially the EE), my issues with BOTFA are quite deep, and likely won't be so easily accepted as those in DOS. For one thing, the third act of DOS was entirely invented, with Ravenhill they are messing with a very important part of the story, cinematically and book-wise.
The battle is HUGE, and done surprisingly with some restraint, key word is "some." It's a lot of fun where it needs to be, tense where it needs to be, and appropriately epic. It's a lot of fun. Bard has one OTT moment at an emotional moment in Dale where he saves his children that would have been better served more subtly, but it's hardly an "eye-roller." It;s just an example of PJ not remembering that sometimes less is more with action scenes. That said, the scene is fine and won't upset anyone.
RE: CGI Dain. This seems to have upset a lot of people. To be honest the CGI is very good. But it does seem seem like an insane move, especially given the fact they reportedly shot stuff with him in the full suit. I'm not sure what happened but they must have been up against the wall. It seems like a move they wouldn't do unless they had to. The character has a nice introduction, he's only in the film for a short while. I didn't have an issue with his character or screen time. I would have liked his character to have been better utilized (especially over Legolas) but was happy with what was given. Regarding the actual CGI. It's odd, yes. But this segment has so much CGI to it that it's not something that will throw you off. Billy's voice is very big and "animated" which kinda makes it work on a "I guess I've got to roll with this" level. It didn't bother me too much, oddly enough. It's weird, and they limit his screen time (likely because of the CGI), so it doesn't derail the movie. It's a weird misfortunate for what should have been a bigger presence, but it's something we'll have to accept in these adaptations.
Re: Tauriel/Kili. I've never had an issue with Legolas and Tauriel being in these films. I think my main problem in DOS is Tauriel's healing scene, but not because of the Kili love story, but because it just isn't directed or edited well. I quite like Evangeline but that's her weakest scene in DOS, acting wise. t's the only scene in DOS that still irks me. I do however like the dialogue between Kili and Tauriel about starlight that follows the healing scene. I honestly don't have an issue with the way their romance is played out in that film. In BOTFA their romance starts out just the way you'd want it. They have one lovely scene early on and then they part ways. It's at Ravenhill that she tries to find him (after being told he's in danger). It starts with her in danger from Bolg, Kili jumps in to the rescue. I'll leave the rest to the imagination. This actual skirmish isn't bad. It's effective. A big detractor of this is that it's intercut with Legolas but more on that later. My issues with Tauriel in this movie that come after Kili's passing. It's a bit hammy, and I don't quite buy Evangeline's performance here. This is another scene that would have been better served with more subtlety. The ruin stone makes a nice comeback in this film and has a nice moment at the end. Unfortunately it drags on a bit, there's a kiss involved, lots of crying from her, and eventually a rather heavy handed scene between her and Thranduil, I'm sure these moments will improve on repeat viewings but it's disappointing that these scenes lack emotional bite. I quite liked Kili/Tauriel's feast of starlight scene in DOS, so it was sad for me that nothing matched that hear, especially in the pivotal moments of that storyline. All in all, the romance adds very little in hindsight. I would have preferred that they had used the screentime to beef up the relationship between FilI and Kili, and left Tauriel as the bad ass elven warrior.
Legolas. I'm not sure what happened to him between BOTFA and FOTR but his stunts became a lot less extravagant (sarcasm). To be honest, one of my main issues with this character in these films is not that he's in them. I like the relationship between him and his dad. My issue stems from PJ's need to make him into a Marvel superhero. If you thought his stunts in DOS were over the top, you are in for a treat in this film. It's literally a joke at this point, and treated as such in this film. The issue is that his big heroics come at the most pivotal part of the movie and serious undermine the hole thing. He's saving Thorin, He's saving Tauriel. He's killing Bolg. He's slaying orcs. He's tossing Orcrist up 100ft into an orc to pass it along to Thorin. It gets absurd, and is unforgivable. I grew to like his fight scene with Bolg in DOS, largely because it's his only grounded and real fight scene in the film. In this film, we are not so lucky. It is literally a James Bond, Matrix style fight scene on a crumbling tower suspended across a glacier. When the ground caves out beneath them, Legolas literally hops along the falling bricks, creating his own path to safety. The audience laughed at how stupid it was. It reminded me of the slow motion CGI sequences in the recent Die Hard movies. It's a dumb moment. A gritty Lurtz style fight scene would have sufficed (but in all honesty, why wasn't Beorn given the chance to dispatch Bolg? there are bear paws on his shoulders, I thought this was a set-up for that. I guess not). Anyways, these Legolas moments are dumb. He literally rides a bat up a mountain and then shoots it mid-flight and lands perfectly on a tower where he proceeds to "save Thorin's skin"
Re: Ravenhill. The battle was huge, epic, fun and tense at all the right moments, Ravenhill was a chance for PJ to go intimate, brutal and personal. Instead he goes the other route and goes over the top, bombastic and insane. It turns an emotional part of the story into the climax of an Iron Man movie. The aforementioned Legolas stuff is intercut throughout this sequence and seriously drags down any emotion you might be trying to build at this moment. The actual fight between Thorin and Azog is undermined because halfway through it Legolas is dispatching Azog's bodyguards from afar. I hope a clever fan one day manages to remove Legolas from these scenes, I do wonder if they'll play better without him. I don't want to say too much about the final bit of the duel. I'll leave that for you to discover. I will say that I felt less would have been more for me.
Side note: Bilbo does get knocked out. I think PJ and the writers missed a wonderful opportunity to have Thorin die defending Bilbo's unconscious body from orcs. It would have been a very emotional moment. Instead they went for the battle on thin ice route because it looked cool. Which is a shame. I didn't feel anything when Azog and Thorin's duel came to an end. I feel like the added element of Thorin defending Bilbo would have gone a long way. That said, Bilbo is knocked out at a convenient moment for me. It's just around the moment that things get hammy and mishandled. I hope one clever fan can fade this sequence out when Bilbo is knocked out and then fade back in when he wakes up at the end of the battle.
Post battle: Again, I hope a clever fan cuts a bulk of the Legolas and Tauriel stuff. There are a couple nice shots of Tauriel mourning Kili, which is all that was needed. Instead we get a scene a drawn out scene that seems to go on and on to the point of "we get it, move on!" Legolas has that weird scene with Thranduil about Aragorn. I really almost laughed because it's the exact scene I was joking with my friends would never / should never be included. It's essentially the Tony Stark / Nick Fury scene in Iron Man, but Thranduil tells Legolas to go find the son of Arathorn in the north, "he goes by the name of strider." Isn't he just a kid at this point? How the heck does Thranduil know about him and why would he tell his son to go after him? It's a dumb scene. What immediately follows is another scene with Tauriel beside Kili where she complains that love hurts. Thranduil says "because it's real." It could have been a nice scene but it feels overacted, and a weird use of valuable screentime.
-CGI is quite good throughout the movie, but I prepared myself for it after letting it sway my opinion of DOS so much. I didn't want the CGI to sway my opinion of BOTFA, and it didn't. In fact, there are lots of sets and practicals in the pre-battle scenes.
-Howard Shore's soundtrack never really gets room to shine. Even Dain's arrival isn't given a musical moment which was sad. I haven't listened to his track on the soundtrack (avoided samples), but I know people said his theme was quite good. I didn't notice it in the film, but that might have been because my jaw was on the floor b/c of CGI Dain, haha. There are lots of nice choral moments but it all seems second fiddle to the sound effects.
-Beorn. Not sure what the heck happened or why he was cut. Very odd. It's literally 15 seconds of footage. I wonder why they even bothered to include him in the TE. I have little faith that he'll get much more to do in the EE, given how expensive his VFX shots must be. That said, there HAS to be more for him elsewhere. A huge disappointment and a big insult to fans who have to sit through Legolas defying gravity. It was a punch to the gut after they mishandled Ravenhill.
-Radagast. Definitely will get at least part of a scene more from him. They use only a small portion of a scene outside Rhosgobel that clearly has more to it.
When all is said and done and the EE is released, I think I'll be skipping the portion between Bilbo getting knocked out and waking up.
Last edited by Mrs Figg on Mon Dec 01, 2014 6:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
Mrs Figg- Eel Wrangler from Bree
- Posts : 25927
Join date : 2011-10-06
Age : 94
Location : Holding The Door
Re: Waiting for 'The Battle of the Five Armies' [2]
by parzival Mon Dec 01, 2014 5:54 pm
malickfan wrote:
I think it boils down to Jackson A) Not being overly fond of the source material (I would classify him as LOTR fan not a Tolkien lover) or the prospect of jumping into a massive production at short notice, derailing other projects by years B) Having too much money and freedom than was good for him, there was no one from New Line or a massive fanbase keeping him on a lease this time around, in many peoples eyes he had earned the right to do what he wanted coz of LOTR C)The CGi stuff is sadly just a reflection of the way the industry is going
Yes I couldn't agree more. I don't think it's a stretch to say he isn't fond of the source material given the way he's altered the story. I think the limitations he faced on LOTR quite worked to the film's benefit, forcing creative problem solving. And there's no better person than Peter Jackson himself to demonstrate this as he explains in this interview how he wanted CGI black riders in Fellowship but couldn't get the budget for it.
[/quote]
parzival- Burglar
- Posts : 69
Join date : 2014-09-06
Re: Waiting for 'The Battle of the Five Armies' [2]
by malickfan Mon Dec 01, 2014 6:08 pm
Mrs Figg wrote:the guy from TORn on Legolas stuff in the film FULL REVIEW
SPOILERS
- Spoiler:
As with my DOS review, I will avoid the really good bits and leave those for you to discover. I will say this, the first 2/3 of this movie (even CGI Dain), do play out in a way that made me smile for most of the movie. Everything pre-battle is fantastic, and most of the actual battle is quite incredible.
A note re my DOS review. I think that my impressions on this film are much different than my impressions of DOS. Unlike that film I have not viewed any trailers clips or soundtrack samples. I went into BOTFA completely fresh. While I have grown to enjoy DOS (especially the EE), my issues with BOTFA are quite deep, and likely won't be so easily accepted as those in DOS. For one thing, the third act of DOS was entirely invented, with Ravenhill they are messing with a very important part of the story, cinematically and book-wise.
The battle is HUGE, and done surprisingly with some restraint, key word is "some." It's a lot of fun where it needs to be, tense where it needs to be, and appropriately epic. It's a lot of fun. Bard has one OTT moment at an emotional moment in Dale where he saves his children that would have been better served more subtly, but it's hardly an "eye-roller." It;s just an example of PJ not remembering that sometimes less is more with action scenes. That said, the scene is fine and won't upset anyone.
RE: CGI Dain. This seems to have upset a lot of people. To be honest the CGI is very good. But it does seem seem like an insane move, especially given the fact they reportedly shot stuff with him in the full suit. I'm not sure what happened but they must have been up against the wall. It seems like a move they wouldn't do unless they had to. The character has a nice introduction, he's only in the film for a short while. I didn't have an issue with his character or screen time. I would have liked his character to have been better utilized (especially over Legolas) but was happy with what was given. Regarding the actual CGI. It's odd, yes. But this segment has so much CGI to it that it's not something that will throw you off. Billy's voice is very big and "animated" which kinda makes it work on a "I guess I've got to roll with this" level. It didn't bother me too much, oddly enough. It's weird, and they limit his screen time (likely because of the CGI), so it doesn't derail the movie. It's a weird misfortunate for what should have been a bigger presence, but it's something we'll have to accept in these adaptations.
Re: Tauriel/Kili. I've never had an issue with Legolas and Tauriel being in these films. I think my main problem in DOS is Tauriel's healing scene, but not because of the Kili love story, but because it just isn't directed or edited well. I quite like Evangeline but that's her weakest scene in DOS, acting wise. t's the only scene in DOS that still irks me. I do however like the dialogue between Kili and Tauriel about starlight that follows the healing scene. I honestly don't have an issue with the way their romance is played out in that film. In BOTFA their romance starts out just the way you'd want it. They have one lovely scene early on and then they part ways. It's at Ravenhill that she tries to find him (after being told he's in danger). It starts with her in danger from Bolg, Kili jumps in to the rescue. I'll leave the rest to the imagination. This actual skirmish isn't bad. It's effective. A big detractor of this is that it's intercut with Legolas but more on that later. My issues with Tauriel in this movie that come after Kili's passing. It's a bit hammy, and I don't quite buy Evangeline's performance here. This is another scene that would have been better served with more subtlety. The ruin stone makes a nice comeback in this film and has a nice moment at the end. Unfortunately it drags on a bit, there's a kiss involved, lots of crying from her, and eventually a rather heavy handed scene between her and Thranduil, I'm sure these moments will improve on repeat viewings but it's disappointing that these scenes lack emotional bite. I quite liked Kili/Tauriel's feast of starlight scene in DOS, so it was sad for me that nothing matched that hear, especially in the pivotal moments of that storyline. All in all, the romance adds very little in hindsight. I would have preferred that they had used the screentime to beef up the relationship between FilI and Kili, and left Tauriel as the bad ass elven warrior.
Legolas. I'm not sure what happened to him between BOTFA and FOTR but his stunts became a lot less extravagant (sarcasm). To be honest, one of my main issues with this character in these films is not that he's in them. I like the relationship between him and his dad. My issue stems from PJ's need to make him into a Marvel superhero. If you thought his stunts in DOS were over the top, you are in for a treat in this film. It's literally a joke at this point, and treated as such in this film. The issue is that his big heroics come at the most pivotal part of the movie and serious undermine the hole thing. He's saving Thorin, He's saving Tauriel. He's killing Bolg. He's slaying orcs. He's tossing Orcrist up 100ft into an orc to pass it along to Thorin. It gets absurd, and is unforgivable. I grew to like his fight scene with Bolg in DOS, largely because it's his only grounded and real fight scene in the film. In this film, we are not so lucky. It is literally a James Bond, Matrix style fight scene on a crumbling tower suspended across a glacier. When the ground caves out beneath them, Legolas literally hops along the falling bricks, creating his own path to safety. The audience laughed at how stupid it was. It reminded me of the slow motion CGI sequences in the recent Die Hard movies. It's a dumb moment. A gritty Lurtz style fight scene would have sufficed (but in all honesty, why wasn't Beorn given the chance to dispatch Bolg? there are bear paws on his shoulders, I thought this was a set-up for that. I guess not). Anyways, these Legolas moments are dumb. He literally rides a bat up a mountain and then shoots it mid-flight and lands perfectly on a tower where he proceeds to "save Thorin's skin"
Re: Ravenhill. The battle was huge, epic, fun and tense at all the right moments, Ravenhill was a chance for PJ to go intimate, brutal and personal. Instead he goes the other route and goes over the top, bombastic and insane. It turns an emotional part of the story into the climax of an Iron Man movie. The aforementioned Legolas stuff is intercut throughout this sequence and seriously drags down any emotion you might be trying to build at this moment. The actual fight between Thorin and Azog is undermined because halfway through it Legolas is dispatching Azog's bodyguards from afar. I hope a clever fan one day manages to remove Legolas from these scenes, I do wonder if they'll play better without him. I don't want to say too much about the final bit of the duel. I'll leave that for you to discover. I will say that I felt less would have been more for me.
Side note: Bilbo does get knocked out. I think PJ and the writers missed a wonderful opportunity to have Thorin die defending Bilbo's unconscious body from orcs. It would have been a very emotional moment. Instead they went for the battle on thin ice route because it looked cool. Which is a shame. I didn't feel anything when Azog and Thorin's duel came to an end. I feel like the added element of Thorin defending Bilbo would have gone a long way. That said, Bilbo is knocked out at a convenient moment for me. It's just around the moment that things get hammy and mishandled. I hope one clever fan can fade this sequence out when Bilbo is knocked out and then fade back in when he wakes up at the end of the battle.
Post battle: Again, I hope a clever fan cuts a bulk of the Legolas and Tauriel stuff. There are a couple nice shots of Tauriel mourning Kili, which is all that was needed. Instead we get a scene a drawn out scene that seems to go on and on to the point of "we get it, move on!" Legolas has that weird scene with Thranduil about Aragorn. I really almost laughed because it's the exact scene I was joking with my friends would never / should never be included. It's essentially the Tony Stark / Nick Fury scene in Iron Man, but Thranduil tells Legolas to go find the son of Arathorn in the north, "he goes by the name of strider." Isn't he just a kid at this point? How the heck does Thranduil know about him and why would he tell his son to go after him? It's a dumb scene. What immediately follows is another scene with Tauriel beside Kili where she complains that love hurts. Thranduil says "because it's real." It could have been a nice scene but it feels overacted, and a weird use of valuable screentime.
-CGI is quite good throughout the movie, but I prepared myself for it after letting it sway my opinion of DOS so much. I didn't want the CGI to sway my opinion of BOTFA, and it didn't. In fact, there are lots of sets and practicals in the pre-battle scenes.
-Howard Shore's soundtrack never really gets room to shine. Even Dain's arrival isn't given a musical moment which was sad. I haven't listened to his track on the soundtrack (avoided samples), but I know people said his theme was quite good. I didn't notice it in the film, but that might have been because my jaw was on the floor b/c of CGI Dain, haha. There are lots of nice choral moments but it all seems second fiddle to the sound effects.
-Beorn. Not sure what the heck happened or why he was cut. Very odd. It's literally 15 seconds of footage. I wonder why they even bothered to include him in the TE. I have little faith that he'll get much more to do in the EE, given how expensive his VFX shots must be. That said, there HAS to be more for him elsewhere. A huge disappointment and a big insult to fans who have to sit through Legolas defying gravity. It was a punch to the gut after they mishandled Ravenhill.
-Radagast. Definitely will get at least part of a scene more from him. They use only a small portion of a scene outside Rhosgobel that clearly has more to it.
When all is said and done and the EE is released, I think I'll be skipping the portion between Bilbo getting knocked out and waking up.
Sounds like we will be getting a very Extended Edition.
The question is will any of us want to watch it?
_________________
The Thorin: An Unexpected Rewrite December 2012 (I was on the money apparently)
The Tauriel: Desolation of Canon December 2013 (Accurate again!)
The Sod-it! : Battling my Indifference December 2014 (You know what they say, third time's the charm)
Well, that was worth the wait wasn't it
I think what comes out of a pig's rear end is more akin to what Peejers has given us-Azriel 20/9/2014
malickfan- Adventurer
- Posts : 4989
Join date : 2013-09-10
Age : 32
Location : The (Hamp)shire, England
Re: Waiting for 'The Battle of the Five Armies' [2]
by malickfan Mon Dec 01, 2014 6:11 pm
[/quote]parzival wrote:malickfan wrote:
I think it boils down to Jackson A) Not being overly fond of the source material (I would classify him as LOTR fan not a Tolkien lover) or the prospect of jumping into a massive production at short notice, derailing other projects by years B) Having too much money and freedom than was good for him, there was no one from New Line or a massive fanbase keeping him on a lease this time around, in many peoples eyes he had earned the right to do what he wanted coz of LOTR C)The CGi stuff is sadly just a reflection of the way the industry is going
Yes I couldn't agree more. I don't think it's a stretch to say he isn't fond of the source material given the way he's altered the story. I think the limitations he faced on LOTR quite worked to the film's benefit, forcing creative problem solving. And there's no better person than Peter Jackson himself to demonstrate this as he explains in this interview how he wanted CGI black riders in Fellowship but couldn't get the budget for it.
CGI Ringwraiths?
Well, at least if Tintin 2 actually happens he'll have more experience in filming things like its a computer game...
_________________
The Thorin: An Unexpected Rewrite December 2012 (I was on the money apparently)
The Tauriel: Desolation of Canon December 2013 (Accurate again!)
The Sod-it! : Battling my Indifference December 2014 (You know what they say, third time's the charm)
Well, that was worth the wait wasn't it
I think what comes out of a pig's rear end is more akin to what Peejers has given us-Azriel 20/9/2014
malickfan- Adventurer
- Posts : 4989
Join date : 2013-09-10
Age : 32
Location : The (Hamp)shire, England
Re: Waiting for 'The Battle of the Five Armies' [2]
by Mrs Figg Mon Dec 01, 2014 6:34 pm
I am in a funk. I was trying to find a word suitable for my mood, and this American saying seems to fit how I feel perfectly. its a restless, frustrated, tired, anxious but I dont know why kind of feeling, and I could happily punch something, but I am feeling far too sorry for myself to bother. I am funky funkster of funky town doing the funky chicken.
Mrs Figg- Eel Wrangler from Bree
- Posts : 25927
Join date : 2011-10-06
Age : 94
Location : Holding The Door
Re: Waiting for 'The Battle of the Five Armies' [2]
by Pettytyrant101 Mon Dec 01, 2014 6:40 pm
Do you know what good for curing a funk Mrs Figg? Housework. Excellent cure. Particularly the scrubbing and hosing down of a certain barrel and cleaning the fridge. 
_________________
Pure Publications, The Tower of Lore and the Former Admin's Office are Reasonably Proud to Present-
A Green And Pleasant Land
Compiled and annotated by Eldy.
- get your copy here for a limited period- free*
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yjYiz8nuL3LqJ-yP9crpDKu_BH-1LwJU/view
*Pure Publications reserves the right to track your usage of this publication, snoop on your home address, go through your bins and sell personal information on to the highest bidder.
Warning may contain Wholesome Tales[/b]
A Green And Pleasant Land
Compiled and annotated by Eldy.
- get your copy here for a limited period- free*
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yjYiz8nuL3LqJ-yP9crpDKu_BH-1LwJU/view
*Pure Publications reserves the right to track your usage of this publication, snoop on your home address, go through your bins and sell personal information on to the highest bidder.
Warning may contain Wholesome Tales[/b]
the crabbit will suffer neither sleight of hand nor half-truths. - Forest
Pettytyrant101- Crabbitmeister
- Posts : 46837
Join date : 2011-02-14
Age : 53
Location : Scotshobbitland
Re: Waiting for 'The Battle of the Five Armies' [2]
by Tinuviel Mon Dec 01, 2014 6:50 pm
I quite literally threw my hands up to the sky and asked "How is this possible? How does this happen?" because I'm legitimately confused. I'm angry. In fact, if ever I'm asked what inspired me to do film (if film ends up being the medium I work through) I will say the Lord of the Rings. The first trilogy awakened me to the beauty of cinema. The second made me want to make something better, it made me angry. It's so frustrating when you know there are people out there who could have done a better job but they just don't get the chance. Sure, some fans will say the Hobbit films are good, but in a few years they'll be forgotten. If anything is going to get a reboot, it's the Hobbit.
_________________
"I think that many confuse 'applicability' with 'allegory'; but the one resides in the freedom of the reader, and the other in the purposed domination of the author." -JRRT
Tinuviel- Finest Nose
- Posts : 1937
Join date : 2011-02-15
Age : 29
Re: Waiting for 'The Battle of the Five Armies' [2]
by bungobaggins Mon Dec 01, 2014 7:02 pm
Sinister71 wrote:bungobaggins wrote:I don't know what to say. I sat through DOS somehow, I don't think I can sit through this.
Again I am with you Bungo, Jackson and WB won't even get my 5 dollar matinee contribution this time around. I mean serious why waste the money on a garbage film that considered none of the originals traits when putting this whole "we need a trilogy" nonsense together. It gave them ample time to tell the story Tolkien intended with the inclusion of the appendices and we get fucking NONE OF IT!!!!!!
Personally I'm not going and I'm gonna talk as many people I can out of going to it. I mean fuck it dvds come out in just a few months anyways so I'll just borrow it and watch it then so as I don't give a single penny to anyone associated with this film. I'll still hang here to get the scoop and find out how truly appalling this steaming pile of shite is. I am officially done with these hobbit films... here's to looking forward to a remake sooner than later
I think I'll go see Exodus instead. Looks like an interesting return to the biblical epic. I can wait a few months to torrent Bofa. The previous DVDs came out in March and April IIRC. Not too long of a wait. If friends want me to see the movie with them I'm just going to be honest. Some things I read about it on the internet really turned me off to it, I'll pass.
bungobaggins- Eternal Mayor in The Halls of Mandos
- Posts : 6384
Join date : 2013-08-24
Re: Waiting for 'The Battle of the Five Armies' [2]
by feanor 1999 Mon Dec 01, 2014 7:08 pm
Ahhh Fuck it...
All of a sudden I want to see giant worms.... And not from the bottom of a bottle of Tequila...
All of a sudden I want to see giant worms.... And not from the bottom of a bottle of Tequila...
_________________
'“Utúlie’n aurë! Aiya Eldalië ar Atanatári, utúlie’n aurë!'
feanor 1999- Ringwinner
- Posts : 218
Join date : 2012-01-19
Age : 59
Location : Staffordshire, England
Re: Waiting for 'The Battle of the Five Armies' [2]
by Tinuviel Mon Dec 01, 2014 7:16 pm
Also, I'm watching the premier right now, there have been a couple jabs at the Silmarilion, which I'm wondering if it's a jab at the Tolkien Estate indirectly.... There's also been two instances (one by Martin, the other by Sir Ian,) where they insinuate that if you don't like the movies then you aren't a true fan. Lots of lipservice about New Zealand and PJ being a great director and Orlando even said he thinks Tolkien would be proud of the films. Hahahah NO. Cumberbatch is the only one to actually give Tolkien credit where credit is due. Someone said he did a great job as Smaug, to which he said Tolkien did all the hard work in creating the character.
Also, PJ HASN'T EVEN SEEN IT YET AND LITERALLY JUST SAID "i HOPE i DON'T REGRET SOME OF THE DECISIONS i MADE" LIKE WHAT???!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? He said he sent it away to be finished a week ago and hasn't seen the final version.
Also, PJ HASN'T EVEN SEEN IT YET AND LITERALLY JUST SAID "i HOPE i DON'T REGRET SOME OF THE DECISIONS i MADE" LIKE WHAT???!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? He said he sent it away to be finished a week ago and hasn't seen the final version.
_________________
"I think that many confuse 'applicability' with 'allegory'; but the one resides in the freedom of the reader, and the other in the purposed domination of the author." -JRRT
Tinuviel- Finest Nose
- Posts : 1937
Join date : 2011-02-15
Age : 29
Re: Waiting for 'The Battle of the Five Armies' [2]
by Mrs Figg Mon Dec 01, 2014 7:22 pm
Giant Worms
Leggy riding Bats
Aragorn!!!
its barking bonkers. I think the problem is twofold, Jackson just wasnt interested much in the book, and he just wanted to play with his new toys. I think he got carried away with all the shiny new tech and thought he would be getting a few more Oscars for breaking new ground. Didnt happen, so he just went apeshit with the spectacle, his next favorite thing. Unfortunately the story got tsunamid under a tidalwave of plastic cgi and cardboard characters..
Leggy riding Bats
Aragorn!!!
its barking bonkers. I think the problem is twofold, Jackson just wasnt interested much in the book, and he just wanted to play with his new toys. I think he got carried away with all the shiny new tech and thought he would be getting a few more Oscars for breaking new ground. Didnt happen, so he just went apeshit with the spectacle, his next favorite thing. Unfortunately the story got tsunamid under a tidalwave of plastic cgi and cardboard characters..
Mrs Figg- Eel Wrangler from Bree
- Posts : 25927
Join date : 2011-10-06
Age : 94
Location : Holding The Door
Re: Waiting for 'The Battle of the Five Armies' [2]
by parzival Mon Dec 01, 2014 7:26 pm
I can't wait. I hope Legolas flies with a bat under each foot while shooting arrows.
parzival- Burglar
- Posts : 69
Join date : 2014-09-06
Re: Waiting for 'The Battle of the Five Armies' [2]
by bungobaggins Mon Dec 01, 2014 7:29 pm
Tinuviel wrote:Also, I'm watching the premier right now, there have been a couple jabs at the Silmarilion, which I'm wondering if it's a jab at the Tolkien Estate indirectly.... There's also been two instances (one by Martin, the other by Sir Ian,) where they insinuate that if you don't like the movies then you aren't a true fan. Lots of lipservice about New Zealand and PJ being a great director and Orlando even said he thinks Tolkien would be proud of the films. Hahahah NO. Cumberbatch is the only one to actually give Tolkien credit where credit is due. Someone said he did a great job as Smaug, to which he said Tolkien did all the hard work in creating the character.
Also, PJ HASN'T EVEN SEEN IT YET AND LITERALLY JUST SAID "i HOPE i DON'T REGRET SOME OF THE DECISIONS i MADE" LIKE WHAT???!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? He said he sent it away to be finished a week ago and hasn't seen the final version.
A true fan of what? Of PJ? Well then yeah they're right. I fucking hate that guy right now. If they're talking about being a Tolkien fan then they can go to hell.
bungobaggins- Eternal Mayor in The Halls of Mandos
- Posts : 6384
Join date : 2013-08-24
Re: Waiting for 'The Battle of the Five Armies' [2]
by Tinuviel Mon Dec 01, 2014 7:36 pm
I feel like reading the Silmarillion right now simply out of spite. Or maybe even continue Children of Hurin because that is the furthest thing from The Hobbit that exists in that universe!
Also found out from watching the DOS EE that if the first screening of FOTR didn't go well at Cannes, then they would cut post-production efforts on the next two films. Thank Eru that wasn't the case. In terms of the Hobbit, I wonder if that initial showing of the HFR at cinemacon caused the lazy filmmaking we witness in all three films. If I remember correctly, that didn't get good reviews from anyone, so maybe WB removed some of their funding or something from the next two films.
Also found out from watching the DOS EE that if the first screening of FOTR didn't go well at Cannes, then they would cut post-production efforts on the next two films. Thank Eru that wasn't the case. In terms of the Hobbit, I wonder if that initial showing of the HFR at cinemacon caused the lazy filmmaking we witness in all three films. If I remember correctly, that didn't get good reviews from anyone, so maybe WB removed some of their funding or something from the next two films.
_________________
"I think that many confuse 'applicability' with 'allegory'; but the one resides in the freedom of the reader, and the other in the purposed domination of the author." -JRRT
Tinuviel- Finest Nose
- Posts : 1937
Join date : 2011-02-15
Age : 29
Re: Waiting for 'The Battle of the Five Armies' [2]
by Mrs Figg Mon Dec 01, 2014 7:56 pm
ok. the only way I can reconcile LOTR and TH is if I think of Jackson as Nice LOTR Jackson and his Evil Twin Hobbit Jackson.
phew thats better!
phew thats better!
Mrs Figg- Eel Wrangler from Bree
- Posts : 25927
Join date : 2011-10-06
Age : 94
Location : Holding The Door
Re: Waiting for 'The Battle of the Five Armies' [2]
by Pettytyrant101 Mon Dec 01, 2014 7:58 pm
So, does that mean you are still scrubbing my barrel or not?
_________________
Pure Publications, The Tower of Lore and the Former Admin's Office are Reasonably Proud to Present-
A Green And Pleasant Land
Compiled and annotated by Eldy.
- get your copy here for a limited period- free*
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yjYiz8nuL3LqJ-yP9crpDKu_BH-1LwJU/view
*Pure Publications reserves the right to track your usage of this publication, snoop on your home address, go through your bins and sell personal information on to the highest bidder.
Warning may contain Wholesome Tales[/b]
A Green And Pleasant Land
Compiled and annotated by Eldy.
- get your copy here for a limited period- free*
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yjYiz8nuL3LqJ-yP9crpDKu_BH-1LwJU/view
*Pure Publications reserves the right to track your usage of this publication, snoop on your home address, go through your bins and sell personal information on to the highest bidder.
Warning may contain Wholesome Tales[/b]
the crabbit will suffer neither sleight of hand nor half-truths. - Forest
Pettytyrant101- Crabbitmeister
- Posts : 46837
Join date : 2011-02-14
Age : 53
Location : Scotshobbitland
Re: Waiting for 'The Battle of the Five Armies' [2]
by Eldorion Mon Dec 01, 2014 8:00 pm
What exactly did they say about the Silmarillion? I'm at work so I can't watch the stream.
On the topic of responsibility, I think this is clearly on PJ and Co. I loved LOTR too, but you can draw a clear line from the paths if the dead to gilded Smaug, or Leggy and the mumak and his bats.
On the topic of responsibility, I think this is clearly on PJ and Co. I loved LOTR too, but you can draw a clear line from the paths if the dead to gilded Smaug, or Leggy and the mumak and his bats.
Eldorion- You're Gonna Carry That Weight
- Posts : 23311
Join date : 2011-02-13
Age : 30
Location : Maryland, United States -
Re: Waiting for 'The Battle of the Five Armies' [2]
by Tinuviel Mon Dec 01, 2014 8:31 pm
Both Stephen Fry and Ken Stott were saying kind of off hand that Peter will probably find a way to make it into a movie. I don't know if there was any actual venom or hinting behind the words, but the mentioning of it twice and the relative fan whinings for a Sil film made me curious if there is something said somewhere or rather. PJ himself said this is the last time he'll be in middle earth EVER, so that's promising!
_________________
"I think that many confuse 'applicability' with 'allegory'; but the one resides in the freedom of the reader, and the other in the purposed domination of the author." -JRRT
Tinuviel- Finest Nose
- Posts : 1937
Join date : 2011-02-15
Age : 29
Re: Waiting for 'The Battle of the Five Armies' [2]
by Elthir Mon Dec 01, 2014 8:58 pm
I think Jackson is done with Tolkien... I have estel he is done, in the English sense.
I'm even starting to sour on some of the admittedly fine visuals, or moments. I saw a clip of 'film four' again last night as I was surfing my shield... I mean my spider ... I mean my television (I was balancing atop it, changing channels)...
... and for a brief moment... Martin looking Bilbo-ish... looking at Rivendell... in my opinion a nice moment despite that Tolkien's Rivendell (again in my opinion) looked different than Jackson's (I'm no purist)... Bilbo was soaking in the wonder of an Elven realm... and there was a nice light upon it, the bridge, the spray below...
... sigh, so short a moment.
But that said, some of the nice visuals just remind me of the whole thing... and well, when the soup on the whole leaves a bad taste, even the 'mote moments' are being affected.
I'm even starting to sour on some of the admittedly fine visuals, or moments. I saw a clip of 'film four' again last night as I was surfing my shield... I mean my spider ... I mean my television (I was balancing atop it, changing channels)...
... and for a brief moment... Martin looking Bilbo-ish... looking at Rivendell... in my opinion a nice moment despite that Tolkien's Rivendell (again in my opinion) looked different than Jackson's (I'm no purist)... Bilbo was soaking in the wonder of an Elven realm... and there was a nice light upon it, the bridge, the spray below...
... sigh, so short a moment.
But that said, some of the nice visuals just remind me of the whole thing... and well, when the soup on the whole leaves a bad taste, even the 'mote moments' are being affected.
Elthir- Sharrasi's prentice
- Posts : 1410
Join date : 2011-06-10
Page 29 of 40 • 1 ... 16 ... 28, 29, 30 ... 34 ... 40
Similar topics» Waiting for 'The Battle of the Five Armies'...
» Waiting for 'The Battle of the Five Armies' [3] SPOILERS
» Cameo in the Hobbit?
» The Hobbit: Battle of the Five Armies - The Last Goodbye
» The Battle of the Five Armies, final trailer
» Waiting for 'The Battle of the Five Armies' [3] SPOILERS
» Cameo in the Hobbit?
» The Hobbit: Battle of the Five Armies - The Last Goodbye
» The Battle of the Five Armies, final trailer
Forumshire :: Middle-earth :: The Hobbit
Page 29 of 40
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum