Waiting for 'The Battle of the Five Armies' [2]

Mrs Figg wrote:FernysApple. but I didnt DO anything.

Well on most forums, simply having an alternate account is reason enough for a ban, especially if the account was created to circumvent a different ban.

I feel like something is going on here that I'm not aware of.

edit: had to read back a few pages, but I think I'm caught up on Figgy's torn soap opera now.

bungobaggins wrote:I feel like something is going on here that I'm not aware of.

edit: had to read back a few pages, but I think I'm caught up on Figgy's torn soap opera now.

These are the days of Figgies lives

Like sands through the hourglass, so are the Figgs of our lives.

Sorry, I was catching up on all the pages I missed while I was at work and wanted to respond to a couple of points in the discussion of TORn and TORC.  TORC has always leaned more to the purist side, and like us, not even their pro-PJ contingent has been all that positive about The Hobbit.  They're a pretty cool forum; they were the biggest spot for Tolkien discussion when the first two movies came out, and they're currently the third-most active (after TORn and then us).  They're also one of the few Tolkien forums to allow political and religious discussion.  TORn tends to play it safer, probably because (as was pointed out) they have their relationship with the filmmakers to maintain.  I can't really resent them for that, though.  TORn plays an important role in the fandom as the go-to spot for most newbies.  There used to be several forums that shared this role (including TORC and the LOTR Plaza), but only TORn has stayed at the top of its game in terms of branding, search-engine optimization, and having a high profile.  But they also function as a launching-point for a lot of Tolkien fans who later start posting on other forums, including ours.  It's only because TORn exists to create a mainstream that we're able to have our whole purist counter-culture thing going on in anyway.

And really, it's not that hard to criticize the movies and get away with it so long as you're not an asshole.  Sure, TORn has a stricter definition of asshole that I tend to like, but most Tolkien forums are like that. Yes, they tend to come down harder on purists, but generally speaking you just have to get used to their posting culture (which tends to value not rocking the boat too much in any direction) and either learn to roll with it or just move on to somewhere that suits your preferences better. But I'm really sick of the incessant insults towards people who post on TORn. We wouldn't tolerate that shit if it was being said about people on here, and we shouldn't tolerate it when it's being said about people on another forum, especially not one that so many of us visit.

Lots of new pics here.

http://collider.com/the-hobbit-the-battle-of-the-five-armies-images-orlando-bloom/

omg

Bilbo Baggins is Walter White! Confirmed!!!!

Wouldn't that make him Jessie?

"I'm looking for someone to share in an adventure."

"This is my own private domicile and I will not be harassed ... bitch!"

Well, I saw Jesse and then I thought of Breaking Bad, and then I thought of "Mine!" from DOS. And that made me think of Walter White.

I guess Thorin could be Walter White. Going mad over gold/going mad over control of a drug empire.

The "mine!" scene definitely reminded me of Walter too, but that shot of Bilbo instantly called to mind the one of Jesse.

Not sure if this has been posted yet:

I'm kinda surprised just how many clips they're putting out at this point.  It's not making that remaining two week wait any easier though.

Eldorion wrote:
And really, it's not that hard to criticize the movies and get away with it so long as you're not an asshole.  Sure, TORn has a stricter definition of asshole that I tend to like, but most Tolkien forums are like that.  Yes, they tend to come down harder on purists, but generally speaking you just have to get used to their posting culture (which tends to value not rocking the boat too much in any direction) and either learn to roll with it or just move on to somewhere that suits your preferences better.  But I'm really sick of the incessant insults towards people who post on TORn.  We wouldn't tolerate that shit if it was being said about people on here, and we shouldn't tolerate it when it's being said about people on another forum, especially not one that so many of us visit.

Now I might have missed a whole ton of weird crazy insults in the last few pages of this thread, as I haven't caught up yet, but I'd say that:

Yes, we do tolerate "that shit." BN.filmz has repeatedly queried whether we were really a bunch of back-scratching sheep as it appeared to him that we were.
Criticism of his trolly-argument style (it. was. trolly.) and his abrasive forum attitude gets the "asshole" stamp though, so I guess that counts as too much rocking of the boat here as well.

Sinister71 wrote:

malickfan wrote:

Sinister71 wrote:And when you show what Tolkien wanted in his letters and written statements TORn staff sends you PM's to "be more pro film, it's really a good thing for us" and "not worry so much about what Tolkien would have wanted". I have several. Sad sad sad just like the Hobbit films

Really?, That is rather sad...(evidently your opinions have some effect!), I've often wondered why they don't invite the Estate (or a Tolkien scholar) to put across their views, and the evidence for the concerns the 'purists' have clearly and formally, if you don the research yourself it's pretty clear why the Estate and purists have the position they have, sometimes it feels like the mods would rather keep things as a status quo and not provoke any serious debate about the films. Then again I was not around for the original TORn site and the debate over the LOTR changes, I have heard from some of the First Agers on TORn (there are lots of nice people who post there, and I'll never fault a fellow fan for being enthusiastic) things were even worse back then, so it may simply be they don't want to repeat the same mistakes on the new, higher profile website. I'm not sure if any of the Mods/writers on TORn are actually paid for their contribution, but you can't blame them for wanting to keep things professional...

Sadly yes that was the responses I got from mods when people went whining to them because I would research my answers to the regulars.and shove Tolkien's own words in their faces sometimes and they would get pissed and either: A. Not respond B. post some snarky reply and call me a hater or OMG, "purist", or C. rat me out to the mods and call for my head on a stick, I guess

either way doesn't matter I can still read every post on their boards, might not be able to voice my opinion but damn I do get a good laugh at how  brainwashed some of these people are... I see most of those sheep over there are still licking Pj's boots after hearing or even seeing the garbage he bothered to put on screen.

And yes some of their staff get perks like being on set, trips to movie premiers, stuff like that. don't let them lie to you, cause I talked to 3 of them at Dragon-con in Atlanta and found out a great many of the perks "staff" over there get. And was even told by one they keep it pro PJ so they keep getting those perks

I post at Torn, sometimes more, sometimes less, but your statement rings so true. My first posts there were about the Witch King in the movies and I got posts deleted and thought I was going to get banned on my first day just for stating facts with respect to what Tolkien wrote as opposed to peoples interpretations or what they imagined. I mean I directly quoted Tolkien and these f#@$knuckles were trying to refute it, implied the written word didn't matter as much as what they could imagine and got all shitty and personal with me and I'm the one who gets reported.

A couple of days ago I started crapping bricks there about Fili's death in the movie, same deal happens. Someone says I've already made up my mind about the movie, when in fact I was basing an opinion on a review (as if anyone should have the audacity to freely form thoughts about new and current information) and then one particularly niggling pj boot licker chimes in, says hes looked at my apparantley prolific posting on another page and starts all this BS about me having an agenda, when in fact the only other place I post anymore in the past 8 years or so is here, for a sum total of about 7 posts so far. The passive aggressive criticism by these sycophants of us so called purists is so formulaic and seemingly by rote it seems that they are reading a prompt sheet provided by vested interests. I doubt that very much but it shows the extent of the lack of originality in forming critical thought whether positive or negative.

I liked the Dol Guldur scene but I think I have lowered my expectations of what I see in films anymore, not just these ones but in general due to the shite that is the majority of what is produced nowdays. This was bought home to me in the last couple of weeks when someone here or there posted what JRRT wrote about The Battle of Anulzicantspellit, Thrain, Thror, Thorin, Azog and Dain and I remembered, wow that was all so incredible and these films have fallen so far from that, insofar as their supposed inclusion of this writing that is essentially bastardised beyond recognition in every respect apart from the names of the players.

Forest Shepherd wrote:Now I might have missed a whole ton of weird crazy insults in the last few pages of this thread, as I haven't caught up yet, but I'd say that:

Yes, we do tolerate "that shit." BN.filmz has repeatedly queried whether we were really a bunch of back-scratching sheep as it appeared to him that we were.
Criticism of his trolly-argument style (it. was. trolly.) and his abrasive forum attitude gets the "asshole" stamp though, so I guess that counts as too much rocking of the boat here as well.

You and I both know that I called you out for the manner in which you approached BN, not for the act of criticizing him or for the content of your arguments. I was unimpressed by BN's arguments as well, but he was swiftly rebutted and refuted at every turn. That's what I mean by us not tolerating it. I make a general policy of not punishing people for things said in debates, and you have to get really abusive for me to drop the hammer. If ignoring another person's arguments and stonewalling was grounds for banning, then half the forum would be gone. But beyond this, I tend to cut someone who is arguing alone against the majority of the forum a little more slack before publicly criticizing them, because I understand how alienating that experience is. But you may recall that I did call BN out on both his arguments and his accusations about the forum.

I've never been a member of TOR.N, but from what I've seen there are also plenty of individuals that practice more of a "literal interpretation" approach to the Hobbit films. Or, at the least, the majority of the people on TOR.N seem to refrain from name-calling like "boot-licking," so it's not fair to paint users of that website so broadly or rudely.

Do not read:

I havent actually broken any of TORns rules yet, as in broken their terms of service. but I was banned multiple times. I havent gone there to troll, so why the ban in the first place? I went there to share opinions which is what we all do. Some posters there are pretty cool and I enjoy talking to them about stuff, and as regards the fanboys I just have a light banter with them, sardonic quips never hurt anyone. In general the old timers seem to like the cozy uncritical atmosphere and really gang up on you if you differ from the Jackson Love-in. So be it. I certainly wouldnt say all the TORn posters are uncritical and sheep because they are not.

Forest Shepherd wrote:I've never been a member of TOR.N, but from what I've seen there are also plenty of individuals that practice more of a "literal interpretation" approach to the Hobbit films. Or, at the least, the majority of the people on TOR.N seem to refrain from name-calling like "boot-licking," so it's not fair to paint users of that website so broadly or rudely.

Do not read:

I dont stonewall Petty I just tell him how wrong he is.  ALL the time. erm maybe thats stonewalling then?  but he likes it that way.   glutton for punishment that one.  

Forest, I agree with you about BNfilms
BNfilmz, he was rude and patronizing, and it was very hard to welcome someone so determined to be obnoxious. I think most people did welcome him and I certainly tried to keep a hold on my temper, (for once) but I did itch to blast him a couple of times, but didnt because he was a one man show and it seemed churlish to ''do a TORn'' and go for the jugular. But yeah he was a bit of an A-Hole. But if he came back I would still welcome him and thats the kind of forum we are. Nobody is perfect even if we cock-up we get a chance (or 3). We have had some doozies of fights here, but we eventually work through it ok.

New Clip. Thranduil being a major dick for no reason IMO. They've taken his dwarf dislike and magnified by a million compared to the book. Also, apparently in an interview, Lee Pace said Thrany's main objective is to get his jewels, that he literally does not care about ANYONE else.

https://www.yahoo.com/movies/elves-vs-dwarves-hobbit-battle-of-five-104171060092.html

ElendilTheShort wrote:

Sinister71 wrote:

malickfan wrote:

Sinister71 wrote:And when you show what Tolkien wanted in his letters and written statements TORn staff sends you PM's to "be more pro film, it's really a good thing for us" and "not worry so much about what Tolkien would have wanted". I have several. Sad sad sad just like the Hobbit films

Really?, That is rather sad...(evidently your opinions have some effect!), I've often wondered why they don't invite the Estate (or a Tolkien scholar) to put across their views, and the evidence for the concerns the 'purists' have clearly and formally, if you don the research yourself it's pretty clear why the Estate and purists have the position they have, sometimes it feels like the mods would rather keep things as a status quo and not provoke any serious debate about the films. Then again I was not around for the original TORn site and the debate over the LOTR changes, I have heard from some of the First Agers on TORn (there are lots of nice people who post there, and I'll never fault a fellow fan for being enthusiastic) things were even worse back then, so it may simply be they don't want to repeat the same mistakes on the new, higher profile website. I'm not sure if any of the Mods/writers on TORn are actually paid for their contribution, but you can't blame them for wanting to keep things professional...

Sadly yes that was the responses I got from mods when people went whining to them because I would research my answers to the regulars.and shove Tolkien's own words in their faces sometimes and they would get pissed and either: A. Not respond B. post some snarky reply and call me a hater or OMG, "purist", or C. rat me out to the mods and call for my head on a stick, I guess

either way doesn't matter I can still read every post on their boards, might not be able to voice my opinion but damn I do get a good laugh at how  brainwashed some of these people are... I see most of those sheep over there are still licking Pj's boots after hearing or even seeing the garbage he bothered to put on screen.

And yes some of their staff get perks like being on set, trips to movie premiers, stuff like that. don't let them lie to you, cause I talked to 3 of them at Dragon-con in Atlanta and found out a great many of the perks "staff" over there get. And was even told by one they keep it pro PJ so they keep getting those perks

I post at Torn, sometimes more, sometimes less, but your statement rings so true. My first posts there were about the Witch King in the movies and I got posts deleted and thought I was going to get banned on my first day just for stating facts with respect to what Tolkien wrote as opposed to peoples interpretations or what they imagined. I mean I directly quoted Tolkien and these f#@$knuckles were trying to refute it, implied the written word didn't matter as much as what they could imagine and got all shitty  and personal with me and I'm the one who gets reported.

A couple of days ago I started crapping bricks there about Fili's death in the movie, same deal happens. Someone says I've already made up my mind about the movie, when in fact I was basing an opinion on a review (as if anyone should have the audacity to freely form thoughts about new and current information) and then one particularly niggling pj boot licker chimes in, says hes looked at my apparantley prolific posting on another page and starts all this BS about me having an agenda, when in fact the only other place I post anymore in the past 8 years or so is here, for a sum total of about 7 posts so far. The passive aggressive criticism by these sycophants of us so called purists is so formulaic and seemingly by rote it seems that they are reading a prompt sheet provided by vested interests. I doubt that very much but it shows the extent of the lack of originality in forming critical thought whether positive or negative.

I liked the Dol Guldur scene but I think I have lowered my expectations of what I see in films anymore, not just these ones but in general due to the shite that is the majority of what is produced nowdays. This was bought home to me in the last couple of weeks when someone here or there posted what JRRT wrote about The Battle of Anulzicantspellit, Thrain, Thror, Thorin, Azog and Dain and I remembered, wow that was all so incredible and these films have fallen so far from that, insofar as their supposed inclusion of this writing that is essentially bastardised beyond recognition in every respect apart from the names of the players.

I think I recognize your name Quite refreshing in what you say.There are always 2 camps of thought on any subject & often each is as adamant as each other. But TORN is in a league all of its own. Its so engineered towards peejers I find it medically unhealthy !

Unsettling stuff Tinuviel!

(And thanks Figgy, you make me ashamed of my contentiousness with Eldo. )

wow talk about character assassination. poor Thanders.

I cant get Galadriel out of my head, and how they have diminished her. How have they managed to make Cate look older and less attractive when they have in theory the best costume dept, makeup people and lighting in hollywood, is Beyond me. In real life she is beautiful with great skin, she has the kind of face that Tolkien described of some of the Elves, neither young nor old, timeless. But in the Dooglydoor scenes they made her look like a middle-aged matron in a hospital nightie. I have done a lot of dressmaking, and that flacid gown thing she is wearing, with no support in the boob area, with the gaping neckline, would only look good on an 18 year old. How have they made a beautiful actress look like a frump?.

I have my inner thoughts on BN, He might have come in with all guns blaring but, he was up against more unhappy & disillusioned souls over peejers than a leopards got spots Its a shame he ( or she ? ) wasnt able to interact in a sociable way ? Me, Im a dipstick duffus that spouts utter shat most of the time BUT, I know I do ! So, when ( not if ! ) I get reprimanded I can accept it

bungobaggins wrote:I think it would be cool to watch them film a scene from start to finish. See everything that's involved in the process.

There was a documentary along these lines produced for the Stars Wars: Revenge of the Sith DVD 'Within A minute'-covering everything that went into creating and supporting a minute long scene in the film, I can't remember it it was any good, but it was a novel idea for a special feature.