Sherlock - BBC [4]

If we can have this dynamics between the lads then I'm all for a season 5. Then again, Moff will likely be writing as older Rosie and that makes me a bit sceptic.

And damn it all, I'm a Mycroft girl now.

i am so pissed off! BBC, fucking plant and grow a pair and stuff that speech about lgbt character-representation up your tight anus until it reaches ur stomach and then you can shit it all out again all over the fans! no one fucking likes all these queerbaiting, gay jokes, have the fucking ovaries to see it through. for heavenly fucks sake, this is a load of horse-sperm, how can they fail so miserably! either fuck up the causal-fan-group and keep the hard-core or be boring heteronormative and keep the casual and leave the hardcores alone DON'T DO FUCKING BOTH! you can't have two cocks, unless you're being a gigantic one ! this fourth season is literal sobby-trash!

You should try to do that with the LotR trilogy- Ringo

{{{I futile exercise in pointless I fear!

Norc its amazing how upset you can get over the absence of something not present in the originals or in any other version of them I am aware of. I don't think the sexuality of the two main characters is particularly important beyond needing to know they love each other- how you wish to interpret that love is, and arguably always has been, up to the reader/viewer- I for one prefer not to have a definite statement on the subject prescribed to me by the writers}}

i am upset because the beebs promised something groundbreaking and what is groundbreaking about this and queerbaiting as fuck

“Love conquers all.” – Ben
“We all certainly saw it as a love story.” – Martin
“They are absolutely made for each other.” – Mark
“I think it’s important that kids watching television see themselves on screen.”– Steven
“It’s groundbreaking (…) If we pull this off, it’ll be.. television history!” – Amanda

I can tell your pissed off Norc There were several weak chinks to the armour in this one, I didn't like "the jolly boys club" myself. It was too schmaltzy. And all because she didn't have anyone to play Barbies with. All this trouble for....that ? And to cap it all mum & dad arrive, Bens real mum & dad. I'm still struck with the odd name, Eurus. I haven't met many mums who would have thought of that ? And would Mycroft really have been that stupid in his custody of said sister ? And I have to agree, not another dvd, not another speech from "the other side" ! Quit it Goddam it. How easily Molly cried at the mere sound of Sherlocks voice, & what impression are we left with over his dilemma ? He wants her to say I love you but is struggling because......? And the iconic "Gay Fathers" bit with Watson & his daughter.I don't like this "its all in the eye of the beholder" stuff, it muddies the water. I love Sherlock Holmes but, its often acting too clever for its own good & I don't mean in solving crimes. I remember when it first aired many moons ago & it was more like the Holmes of yesteryear. Someone who people turned to, a crime fighter, now, its about Holmes in his own little world consisting of "me, occasionally Watson & sometimes Mycroft" Mrs Hudson is only mentioned because how else would you explain a fluffy haired flighty woman who always seems to be on the edge.

I haven't seen it yet. But nobody has to tell me the sister screwed things up - I predicted that shit.

Norc wrote:and wasn't JOhn's feet chained to the well?? how the fuck did he climb out when given a rope, fucktards the whole lot...

i'm out bitches. nice knowing you all...... no more foruming for me. bye.

Why do WE have to suffer for a bad Sherlock episode?

Don't mean to offend or begrudge anyone their enjoyment of the most recent episodes, but I wanted to get the crabbit off my chest.

rant:

The more I think about it, the more I hope there there won't be a season 5. Perhaps, if they could manage to keep it a detective series and somehow remember the character arcs... They can't, can they.

Psst, Norc: How 'bout this for hope then? @08.10

further rantage

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

- Figg

{{{

Spoiler:

'

Spoiler:

Overall I thought this series was an improvement on three- not as good as two and about as good as 1.}}

Umm, Mycroft DID do fieldwork when he rescued Sherlock from the Russians. Quite a good operative too.

{{{{ Yes- a notable one-off, notable for being a one-off and remarked upon as so and to how unusual in the episode. And we don't know what he actually did that time other than disguise- I dont recall him personally doing anything lethal}}

It's not the not wanting to kill that gave me pause, but the weak stomach. Seemed quite out of character.

{{Again we have never seen Mycroft confronted with the messy end of business. He is always at the other end orchestrating from a nice office somewhere with air conditioning- and I think that was rather the point.

Spoiler:

}}

They just ruined the Mycroft character and made him banal.

{{Actually it makes him a bit more like the book version, a bit fat and soft even if he is brilliant. We saw those traits here in his actions rather than his physical appearance which was the shorthand Doyle used to get the same thing across.}}

I prefer Charles Gray's version of Mycroft. He had an underlying sinister feeling about him. You might not have actually seen him kill someone but, you dam well knew he could. I really felt let down by Gatiss interpretation of Mycroft in this episode. An older brother is who you turn to when your being picked on at school. Id be better off with Mr Humphries from "Are You Being Served". The whole episode let me down in so many ways, a high security prison where anything goes, a gloomy "The Ring" escapee behind a Hannibal Lecter screen waiting for "goodies"...why ?, what the heck can she do ? oh yes, she can mess with your mind. Well, they knew that with Magneto & covered him in plastic, a-ha!. And do I recall someone saying their parents were dead ? I dunno, my brain is boggled. Soon arrive when they learn their psychopath daughter is a stand in for said Hannibal Lecter. So, everything is ok now ? The girl with the weird name is back in the same goldfish bowl she started from, after murdering her jailor & wife, tho any law courts here know nothing of her ? & everyone breathes a big sigh of relief & goes on living normally. Mrs Hudson can hoover away to Iron Maiden again, is that a clue or something ?? Iron...as in she does their laundry & Maiden....shes not married ? who can say with Gatiss & Moff ? I know !! As Mary refuses to lie quietly, we could turn this into a sort of " Randall & Hopkirk" spin off. Mary can pop up every now & again with encouragement for them !! Yay ! I'm still surprised how weak willed Mycroft was. Bloody insult I think ! Puking at the mere mention of a bullet.Thats the last thing I would have expected from him !. Not cricket Gatiss, not cricket at all !

Everything I've heard about S3-4 makes my decision to stop watching the show feel more and more justified, Sherlock Holmes is about two odd couple friends solving crimes, frankly from what I've read or heard about the series the last few years it seems its disappeared up its own arse with a focus on being twisty turny and oh so clever pandering to hardcore fans, rather than making enjoyable sleuthing for the masses.

{{I really am struggling to see where this Mycroft stuff is coming from based on this episode and prior. There is nothing here that is out of character I can see- nor do I see where people are getting 'weak willed' from?
He quite calmly and honourably offered his own life over Johns- he might not want to have blood on his hands but he was quite willing to give up his own life for his little brother- is that not the very shining example of the older brother taking care of the younger- even trying to goad him into ti to make the choice easier on Sherlock? How is that weak-willed?

As to Euros I thought that storyline was rather neatly worked- as children she was exceptional even by the Holmes standards but entirely singular- she desperately wanted to play with her brother Sherlock- but he spends all his time playing pirates with his best friend- so she hides him away in a lethal trap and sets a riddle to rescue him so they can all play- no one works out the riddle and he dies and she is taken away for everyone's safety.
The family uncle who is high up in the government sees her still useful potential so tells the parents she is dead and instead incarcerates her in a top secret facility where they can study her and pick her brains for security purposes.
Meanwhile a traumatised Sherlock is further induced to forget and cover up his memories by his overprotective older brother Mycroft, who continues over the years to use a story about the 'east-wind' as a means of checking every so often Sherlocks memories have not resurfaced.
Poor disturbed Euros meanwhile still has the same basic childish desire to play with her brother that started it all. She arranges to be allowed to spend time with Moriarity in that time they concoct everything we have seen since Sherlock began- which is just Euros playing the game with Sherlock- the game is on! given whole new context.

It also explains beyond their connections to Doyles work the reoccurring water imagery- such as the Reinbacjh Falls in the mind palace which has no meaning in Sherlock beyond a nod to the books- but now has far greater meaning given the fate of his best friend that is the route of all this.
Like Sherlock and Mycroft Euros also makes use of a mind palace but hers is emblematic of her state of mind-far above everyone else and unable to connect with all the other people on the planet below- she needs Sherlock to help her make that contact and metaphorically land the plane.
At every turn in the episode what she seeks from Sherlock is emotion- his emotions that she was denied and then he was then denied by his trauma and by subsequently retreating into himself.
This in turn ties into last weeks Mrs Hudson rant about how Sherlock is based in emotion- the big secret is so are all the Holmes siblings- in their own way all three fight to suppress their humanity.
But Sherlocks empathy seems to be something Euros did not expect and her disguised 'you are a lot nicer than I expected' to Sherlock is probably genuine.

I think its a rather poignant tale and nicely wrapping up all sorts of themes that have been returning since they started.

So I struggle to see what was either wrong with Euros or with Mycroft here. It all fitted nicely. }}}

that's for you, Petty as you see the good in something I am struggling with
I believe Mycroft knew Sherlock would crumble & would not be able to shoot his own brother, that's why he offered it & even goaded Sherlock into it. If this had been Spock I might have thought differently. I have to say your clarification helps swallow the pill but, its a funny tasting pill. Can we not have a fun program like it used to be ? or am I too simple to enjoy the rubric cube of conundrums ? You have to aim for all sorts of imagination in TV & I guess Gatiss/Moff have done that really, its just me, I'm still in the old school camp of Brett, Rathbone, & Stephens, tho so many have played Sherlock its amazing. If ever there were a role most wanted its got to be that of Sherlock.

azriel wrote:I prefer Charles Gray's version of Mycroft. He had an underlying sinister feeling about him. You might not have actually seen him kill someone but, you dam well knew he could. I really felt let down by Gatiss interpretation of Mycroft in this episode. An older brother is who you turn to when your being picked on at school. Id be better off with Mr Humphries from "Are You Being Served". The whole episode let me down in so many ways, a high security prison where anything goes, a gloomy "The Ring" escapee behind a Hannibal Lecter screen waiting for "goodies"...why ?, what the heck can she do ? oh yes, she can mess with your mind. Well, they knew that with Magneto & covered him in plastic, a-ha!. And do I recall someone saying their parents were dead ? I dunno, my brain is boggled. Soon arrive when they learn their psychopath daughter is a stand in for said Hannibal Lecter. So, everything is ok now ? The girl with the weird name is back in the same goldfish bowl she started from, after murdering her jailor & wife, tho any law courts here know nothing of her ? & everyone breathes a big sigh of relief & goes on living normally. Mrs Hudson can hoover away to Iron Maiden again, is that a clue or something ?? Iron...as in she does their laundry & Maiden....shes not married ? who can say with Gatiss & Moff ? I know !! As Mary refuses to lie quietly, we could turn this into a sort of " Randall & Hopkirk" spin off. Mary can pop up every now & again with encouragement for them !! Yay !  I'm still surprised how weak willed Mycroft was. Bloody insult I think ! Puking at the mere mention of a bullet.Thats the last thing I would have expected from him !. Not cricket Gatiss, not cricket at all !

exactly my thought on Mycroft. In every film I have ever seen he is the older brother Sherlock can turn to when things get too dangerous or difficult, he is Sherlock's rock, he is cleverer and more ruthless than Sherlock, he should remain cool and aloof not made into a softy with feelings, made banal by his normality, Mycroft isn't normal and why should he be? Why should they try to make him show fear and normal emotions when he is fine as he is, in the shadows and always there as the rock. As for the use of other pop culture icons like Hannibal Lector and even Harry Potter Azkaban island with Bellatrix/Euros the crazy lady, just meh. this is proof to me that the further they go from the original the worse it gets.

malickfan wrote:Everything I've heard about S3-4 makes my decision to stop watching the show feel more and more justified, Sherlock Holmes is about two odd couple friends solving crimes, frankly from what I've read or heard about the series the last few years it seems its disappeared up its own arse with a focus on being twisty turny and oh so clever pandering to hardcore fans, rather than making enjoyable sleuthing for the masses.

all of that is correct, but there are one or two enjoyable episodes among the self indulgent ones. The second episode The Lying Detective, was very good. it felt more like part of season 1 or 2.