Sherlock - BBC [4]

Pettytyrant101 wrote:just plonking in female characters does not automatically mean 'not sexist'.- Figg

It'd be a bloody odd thing to do if he is though would it not? Especially as its not the first time- Last Christmas is another good example, no reason that crew couldn't have been mainly males, or even all males, but its not, its nearly all women.

your assumptions are absurd. Harems are all female, does that make them non-sexist?

You might not care what Clara has learned but plenty do, plenty have been enjoying Clara as companion particularity with 12, myself among them and I started out pretty lukewarm on Clara when she was with 11.

'plenty' being you and two others then. most people are pretty underwhelmed, while liking her as an actress for the longest running companion of NuWho she is remarkably so-so.

' what she has learnt seems to entail being a smartarse'

Reductionism to create absurdity again. We have got a rather deep story line with Clara and 12 about coming to terms with change, dealing with grief, the troubling matter of lies, and now we are seeing her in a sort of grief denial it seems, running from facing up to the actuality of morality and deliberately being reckless and gungho to the point where even the Doctor has felt the need to address it. Thats a lot more to her character and what is going on than 'being a smartarse'.

don't think so. a lot of that you are reading into it, I just get a rather glassy eyed snippy woman with a propensity for snippy one-liners. not very deep, not very interesting, and once they discarded 'the Impossible Girl' nonsense which irritated everyone, not much going on apart from the soap opera love story with Danny. He was criminally underused. They built him up into a mysterious and interesting character only for him to be reduced to soppy wet lettuce with sad Bambi eyes whose only purpose is to give Clara fake depth and angst. really cheap feels.

' Missy is neither fun nor interesting.'

To you perhaps- overall reception of her going on the ratings for episodes she has been in is good. And anecdotally from watching many reaction vids and review stuff she is actually going down very well with females of all ages. And I would be willing to bet that come the next big comic-con Who is at you will see a lot of female Missy cosplayers.

Gomez does her best with the trite material. people seem to think she is good but the material lets her down. She is in danger of becoming a bit of a one note, she has no ambiguity, its always full on bonkers and sarcastic, you never see under the surface, never see the real person or Being she is under the ludicrous posturing and pouting. We never see the inner workings of her character but superficial physical slapstick and pantomime villain, theres nothing else there. which means you cant relate to her, she is just an empty vessel.

Pettytyrant101 wrote:your assumptions are absurd. -Figg

explain then why someone who hates women continually writes episodes featuring more women than men? He is the writer- if he doesn't want women in it he writes stories with more males- but he doesn't do that.

what on EARTH are you talking about? you mean actual numbers? as if that makes things acceptable? anyway that's besides the point. Moffat has obviously thought to himself that shoving female characters in will take the heat off sexism criticism. as if that solves it. very simplistic and superficial resolution. easy.


'Harems are all female, does that make them non-sexist?'

Depends whats going on in it

you do know what a harem was invented for?

''plenty' being you and two others then. most people are pretty underwhelmed'

Nope I am going on the evidence- you are not you are just giving your personal opinion.
The only evidence we have for how much the audience is enjoying the show are the AI ratings- for episodes featuring Missy those scores are -

85. 83. 84.83.

IMDb ratings-

8.8  8.0 8.7 8.7

voted scores on Gallifrey Base for the Missy episodes rate-

10/10. 10/10. 8/10. 9/10.

these ratings are not proof. they are a small cross section of the population and from geek culture web-sites. this is 100% subjective and in no way proof. posting numbers is not proof, its a highly subjective and biased indication from some people with vested interests.

None of this supports your contention that 'most people' dislike Missy. In fact the figures point in the opposite direction.

'a lot of that you are reading into it'

No I am basing it on the dialogue in the episodes- most particularity the scene in the TARDIS between the Doctor and Clara, then the the phone conversation between the two, and Clara's final speech to Lunn about loss. My analysis of her character is all based on the episodes themselves and what is said in them. I can go dig up all the relevant quotes if you really need the proof.

it wont be proof though, so you would be wasting your time.

'people seem to think she is good but the material lets her down.'

Going on the figures and ratings people think she is good and are enjoying the material.

figures and ratings are not proof, they are highly subjective cross sections of a small percentage of highly biased viewers. there is no proof.

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Nothing to do with worship- everything to do with proportionality and some refelction on the factual material we have.

Ridiculous blanket claims like Moffat doesn't know how to write a straight forward tv episode, or that the showrunner who has done more than any other to promote the role of females within the shows mythology is sexist are not criticisms of the same category.
They are sweeping generalisations which are not backed up by the overall facts.

There are no sweeping generalisations, no more than your sweeping generalisations that Moffat has ''done more than any other to promote the role of females within the shows mythology'' which is frankly absurd. There is however legitimate opinion coming from large swathes of the public that Moffat is incapable of writing a female character without the intrusion of a level of sexism running from casual and subtle to downright in yer face misogyny. This is not a sweeping generalisation but based on actual facts.

Which is not to say there are not areas where Moffats own sensibilities and in particulate dark sense of humour don't get him in trouble, they do, but this is true of any writer.

For 'dark sense of humour' read Benny Hill.


No one can portray every type of person accurately, and the purpose of writing and narrative is not necessarily to try to do so. But the level of bile and scrutiny thrown at Moffat is way out of proportion to the shows he produces and the amount of folks who watch and enjoy them seemingly without taking or finding any offence in them at all.


The 'bile' comes from intense and justified dislike of being misrepresented by a man who seems smug and dismissive.

There is strong sense that some folks don't sit down to watch a Moffat show to enjoy it in the first place, but rather to see what they can find to be offended at by him this week.


I think that's a pretty lame way of trying to silence peoples concerns. I am sure most people want to like Doctor Who, have no axe to grind until they watch it and find things that are grating to the nerves and seem to be written in due to the underhand contempt of the showrunner.