Sherlock - BBC [4]
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Re: Sherlock - BBC [4]
by halfwise Sun Jan 08, 2017 6:04 pm
That Russian version looks fantastic! 
but I didn't recognize the story that developed after the book introduction was interrupted. I'll have to go back and watch more....time to go pull my laundry out of the dryer.
but I didn't recognize the story that developed after the book introduction was interrupted. I'll have to go back and watch more....time to go pull my laundry out of the dryer.
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Re: Sherlock - BBC [4]
by Pettytyrant101 Sun Jan 08, 2017 6:06 pm
I think what Petty points out is essentially true for the first few stories- Halfy
{{ I don't! -its true all the way through- Holmes is still making cryptic quips about Watson's private life- Doyle is still giving him wives, and he still has the same financial issues.
I dont disagree with you that its largely writers conveyance (I said that above ages ago) but you cant take that as the reason when adapting the character from the page- you have to deal with what is actually there on the page- and on the page Watson likes the good life, seems to like the ladies and his lifestyle, despite being a successful (and remember supposedly famous from the stories in the Strand, from which presumably he also makes income) Medical Doctor with his own practice is always running out of money. That's all as true in the later stories as it is in the first ones.}}
{{ I don't! -its true all the way through- Holmes is still making cryptic quips about Watson's private life- Doyle is still giving him wives, and he still has the same financial issues.
I dont disagree with you that its largely writers conveyance (I said that above ages ago) but you cant take that as the reason when adapting the character from the page- you have to deal with what is actually there on the page- and on the page Watson likes the good life, seems to like the ladies and his lifestyle, despite being a successful (and remember supposedly famous from the stories in the Strand, from which presumably he also makes income) Medical Doctor with his own practice is always running out of money. That's all as true in the later stories as it is in the first ones.}}
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Re: Sherlock - BBC [4]
by Mrs Figg Sun Jan 08, 2017 6:47 pm
The point is that Mary in Cumberbatch's version is totally extraneous to the story and it was a big mistake as it was wasting time in boring domestic filler when they should be doing what they did in seasons 1 and 2. indeed it backfired because nobody likes Mary as an intrusion into what should be a story about 2 men. No idea why Moffat thought it was a good idea but it was probably to deal with criticisms about the sexualisation of Irene Adler by introducing a 'strong female' character. But the super spy thing was ridiculous she still ended up saddled with domesticity and fridged asap.
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Re: Sherlock - BBC [4]
by Pettytyrant101 Sun Jan 08, 2017 7:23 pm
'that Mary in Cumberbatch's version is totally extraneous to the story'- Figg
{{As she is in the original. }}
they should be doing what they did in seasons 1 and 2.
{{series 2 is not the same as series 1. Nor is it in Moffats style - look at his tenure on Who- not one series has the same tone or format as the other- they are different.}}
'what should be a story about 2 men'
{{It still is- you were just complaining Mary was fridged just to create story for the 2 men! But the story Doyle told about these two men is not necessarily the same as what Moffat and Gatiss are telling.}}
{{As she is in the original. }}
they should be doing what they did in seasons 1 and 2.
{{series 2 is not the same as series 1. Nor is it in Moffats style - look at his tenure on Who- not one series has the same tone or format as the other- they are different.}}
'what should be a story about 2 men'
{{It still is- you were just complaining Mary was fridged just to create story for the 2 men! But the story Doyle told about these two men is not necessarily the same as what Moffat and Gatiss are telling.}}
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Re: Sherlock - BBC [4]
by Mrs Figg Sun Jan 08, 2017 10:32 pm
that was brilliant! 
they turned it round in spectacular fashion.
loved it.
that was classic Sherlock.
they turned it round in spectacular fashion. loved it.
that was classic Sherlock.
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Re: Sherlock - BBC [4]
by halfwise Sun Jan 08, 2017 10:33 pm
I'll be watching the double feature of the first two episodes tonight, looking forward to it!
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Re: Sherlock - BBC [4]
by halfwise Sun Jan 08, 2017 11:17 pm
I watched the more recent one first, and thought it was looking fantastic...until about 10 minutes in we finally meet Sherlock. Everything about him was totally wrong, and I soon quit.
The older one doesn't look as good, but Sherlock is much closer to correct. Still doesn't have the magnetism the role requires, though.
The older one doesn't look as good, but Sherlock is much closer to correct. Still doesn't have the magnetism the role requires, though.
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Re: Sherlock - BBC [4]
by azriel Sun Jan 08, 2017 11:53 pm
Finally got to see an episode without nodding off 
I thought it was brilliant I think I'm expecting to see Mary pop up for just a fleeting second as Watson slowly releases her out of his system. You don't get over something like that in a hurry. I cant believe they said "the concluding episode next week" ?? WTF ?! Toby Jones was an obnoxious baddie, he really made your skin crawl & your tummy lurch. The reveal at the end I'm not sure I'm gonna buy but, we will see.
I thought it was brilliant I think I'm expecting to see Mary pop up for just a fleeting second as Watson slowly releases her out of his system. You don't get over something like that in a hurry. I cant believe they said "the concluding episode next week" ?? WTF ?! Toby Jones was an obnoxious baddie, he really made your skin crawl & your tummy lurch. The reveal at the end I'm not sure I'm gonna buy but, we will see. _________________
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Re: Sherlock - BBC [4]
by Pettytyrant101 Sun Jan 08, 2017 11:54 pm
"that was brilliant! they turned it round in spectacular fashion. loved it. that was classic Sherlock."- Figg
{{What the first one this series to be written by Moffat you mean?
}}
{{What the first one this series to be written by Moffat you mean?
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Re: Sherlock - BBC [4]
by Pettytyrant101 Mon Jan 09, 2017 2:45 am
{{Ok just watched it and in very brief -
- Spoiler:
- that was hugely enjoyable with great character moments a very unpleasant adversary and tons of good lines with more rug pulls than the mind could comprehend- or typical Moffat in other words ! Though I did get a Who vibe with Mary/Clara and mind Mary's final words to John reminded me of mind Clara's last words to the Doctor.
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Re: Sherlock - BBC [4]
by halfwise Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:49 pm
I liked that Sherlock finally said "the game's afoot!". Hearing him saying "the game's on" over and over the last few years made me grind my teeth. It didn't last, alas.
What else? Oh yeah,
What else? Oh yeah,
- Spoiler:
- The thing with the Holmes sister totally ruined an ending to what was otherwise a quite wonderful episode. What the hell is she there for? Basically invalidated John's transgressions; will make us wonder if everything that happens in future (or past!) is little more than a sister manipulation....stupid, just stupid.
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Re: Sherlock - BBC [4]
by Pettytyrant101 Mon Jan 09, 2017 1:30 pm
{{{The sister has been
- Spoiler:
- hinted at since at least series 2 (I think even in 1) and is tied to the flashbacks Sherlock has long been having to when they were kids and something with the dog Redbeard they had as kids- so its not out of nowhere- its been building to her appearence for some time.
I dont see how it invalidates his transgression either- he didn't know- from John point of view it was still a valid transgression.
I also thought the speech at the end between John and Mary was very much directly addressing the very subject we have been discussing here since last week- the character of John Watson.
John saying the man she thinks he is, is not who he is, but rather the man he wishes he was is a nod to his book counterparts behaviour I think- in the books John is a bit of a womanizer until he meets Mary and marries her- then finally he becomes that man.
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Re: Sherlock - BBC [4]
by Pettytyrant101 Mon Jan 09, 2017 2:46 pm
{{I find it fascinating
- Spoiler:
- how they take the original premise and work it to their own version- this story is based on the Dying Detective- a story in which Mrs Hudson turns up at Watson's house fearful for Holmes, who is ranting raving, chucking things about, making random deductions and shooting guns in the house.
Watson goes round and eventually discovers from Homes that he is dying from a rare disease contracted whilst on a case abroad. In fact the whole thing is set up to catch Culverten-Smith, who has poisoned at least his nephew and also now seemingly Sherlock via poisoned mail.
Holmes sends Watson to get Smith and he agrees immediately to comes and we get a similar bedside scene as we did in the episode- with Smith confessing his sins.
Lestrade pops up to arrest him and smith challenges that his word is as good in court as Sherlocks- at which point John appears from behind the curtains as a third witness.
Its interesting all the plot points they keep- its the same bad guy, Sherlock is conducting a massive set up, fooling everyone including John and Mrs Hudson. His crazed outbursts are present and correct- Mrs Hudson getting Watson is all in there. And the finale to the Smith tale is almost about the same as in the book with the John as witness switched for recording device hidden in John cane by Sherlock.
But probably the most interesting layer they have added to it beyond using it to service their own story arcs, is the Jimmy Saville connotations- for those unaware Saville is the UK biggest ever pedophile. He was a celebrity, a man who did tons of charity work, had hospitals named after him, got given the keys to them and then used his position and fame to cover up abusing children in those places- sound familiar?
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Re: Sherlock - BBC [4]
by huffjuff Mon Jan 09, 2017 3:33 pm
THAT LAST EPISODE. WTF. Loved it tho.
- Episode 1:
- Do you think Mary is dead? I'm quite sure she isn't
- THIS IS A SPOILER (I think):
- Who are this new sister actually?
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Re: Sherlock - BBC [4]
by Mrs Figg Mon Jan 09, 2017 3:57 pm
Pettytyrant101 wrote:"that was brilliant! they turned it round in spectacular fashion. loved it. that was classic Sherlock."- Figg
{{What the first one this series to be written by Moffat you mean?
no. considering the last season was shit. its about time there was a good one. I also think your comment was immature. At least I have the good grace to give credit where its due.
Last edited by Mrs Figg on Mon Jan 09, 2017 4:03 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Re: Sherlock - BBC [4]
by Mrs Figg Mon Jan 09, 2017 3:59 pm
halfwise wrote:I watched the more recent one first, and thought it was looking fantastic...until about 10 minutes in we finally meet Sherlock. Everything about him was totally wrong, and I soon quit.
The older one doesn't look as good, but Sherlock is much closer to correct. Still doesn't have the magnetism the role requires, though.
are you talking about the Russian one? in which case I agree, it wasn't Sherlock and it felt wrong, still they had a good go at it.
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Re: Sherlock - BBC [4]
by David H Mon Jan 09, 2017 4:10 pm
I also think your comment was immature.
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Re: Sherlock - BBC [4]
by Mrs Figg Mon Jan 09, 2017 5:08 pm
David H wrote:I also think your comment was immature.
{{{{{{{I'm guessing drunk
yeah most likely.
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Re: Sherlock - BBC [4]
by Mrs Figg Mon Jan 09, 2017 5:15 pm
few comments
- Spoiler:
- call me old fashioned but wouldn't Sherlock recognize his OWN SISTER? seeing he notices nano particles of cigar dust means you lived in Cuba in 1978 and stuff? secondly I noticed the Saville thing and also the implied criticism of brexit at one point. This episode flowed well, I suppose this means I am not keen on Gatiss penned stuff if this is the end result. Not I my wildest imagining did I think they could bring it back from the brink, but they did. That ep deserves a second viewing. It was as good as anything in season 1 and 2. it was just the two of them solving stuff, good. its about time. I actually thought Mary as angel on his shoulder really worked extremely well.
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Re: Sherlock - BBC [4]
by Pettytyrant101 Mon Jan 09, 2017 6:51 pm
I also think your comment was immature.- Figg
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Re: Sherlock - BBC [4]
by Pettytyrant101 Mon Jan 09, 2017 8:11 pm
{{{ And you did predict normal service would be resumed once Sherlock was back! 
Although perhaps its only you and I that could still manage this over an episode we both agree was good! }}}
And you did predict normal service would be resumed once Sherlock was back! Although perhaps its only you and I that could still manage this over an episode we both agree was good! }}}_________________
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Re: Sherlock - BBC [4]
by halfwise Mon Jan 09, 2017 8:30 pm
That did take some remarkable acrobatics.
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Re: Sherlock - BBC [4]
by Mrs Figg Mon Jan 09, 2017 11:25 pm
next weeks better be good. or its curtains.
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