Re: In theatres: 'Desolation of Smaug' [2] SPOILERS

by Eldorion Mon Mar 24, 2014 3:09 am

"This thing does not conform to my expectations and is therefore bad!"

by bungobaggins Mon Mar 24, 2014 3:11 am

by halfwise Mon Mar 24, 2014 3:18 am

Some of the wordplay can be fun, and I'll admit I wasn't really listening to it in the NAS song. I'm mainly annoyed by a rather dominant rap form that restrains many forms of expression. NAS is somewhat more expressive than the most extreme gangsta rap style, so I'm probably not complaining about him so much as the elements he chooses to retain from the worst of rap.

All I ask is that they stop pigeonholing themselves within a very confined style while thinking they are doing something great. It's like a tic-tac-toe player comparing himself to a chess player - it's not the same league.

by Eldorion Mon Mar 24, 2014 3:24 am

How dare they have different artistic values than you!

by halfwise Mon Mar 24, 2014 3:26 am

Eldorion wrote:I'm gonna take a wild guess and say you also look down on electronic music.

I'm a big fan of Colin Nancarrow. Also a big fan of Wendy Carlos Williams (the pioneers often sound blase' after the revolution). Many of the early 20th century composers would have done well in the electronic era (Schoenberg and especially Anton Webern) though current composers often tend too much towards soundscapes rather than true composition.

by Eldorion Mon Mar 24, 2014 3:31 am

halfwise wrote:true composition.

You're just yanking my chain now, aren't you?

by halfwise Mon Mar 24, 2014 3:32 am

Eldorion wrote:How dare they have different artistic values than you!

'Different' is different from 'none'. Pokey Tongue

No, that's a step too far. I would likely have little problem with rap if the performers didn't provoke me by having such egos about it. If they'd just shrug their shoulders and say "this is what I like to do, and I do it pretty well" I'd be fine with it. Sort of like kazoo playing.

by Eldorion Mon Mar 24, 2014 3:34 am

I'm not sure how they're "provoking" you. Did a rapper steal your girlfriend or something?

by halfwise Mon Mar 24, 2014 3:35 am

Eldorion wrote:
halfwise wrote:true composition.

You're just yanking my chain now, aren't you?

A soundscape is a craft. For true composition you have to throw a piece of yourself in it.
I wasn't saying rap is soundscape, btw, though in many cases I think the only real creative element is in the words.

by halfwise Mon Mar 24, 2014 3:37 am

I'm always provoked by BS. I see a lot of inflated statements by those who bring in the money at work, and even though I benefit by that money it simply drives me crazy more than anything else.

by bungobaggins Mon Mar 24, 2014 3:40 am

by halfwise Mon Mar 24, 2014 3:43 am

An odd but possibly meaningful point, Bugo, assuming I ever figure it out.

Okay, enough taking potshots at rap. Actually just at a few subtrends that annoy me. I'm feeling purged and ready for bed. Have a good night, Eldo.

by halfwise Mon Mar 24, 2014 3:46 am

bungobaggins wrote:

I guess repetitive music doesn't bother me that much. I am a HUGE Philip Glass fan.

Proof:

Actually that etude was not very repetitive, I rather liked it.

by bungobaggins Mon Mar 24, 2014 3:59 am

John Cage wrote:"The first question I ask myself when something doesn't seem to be beautiful is why do I think it's not beautiful. And very shortly you discover that there is no reason."

"I certainly had no feeling for harmony, and Schoenberg thought that that would make it impossible for me to write music. He said, 'You'll come to a wall you won't be able to get through.' So I said, 'I'll beat my head against that wall.'"

by David H Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:35 am

I'm not much for listening to Cage, I'm afraid.

Halfwise, I think I get your point that underlies the obvious chain jerking.

Halfwise wrote:I would likely have little problem with rap if the performers didn't provoke me by having such egos about it.

That's where I often lose interest in jazz soloists as well. They often ignore musicality for the sake of virtuosity.

I'm only slightly impressed by how long a note can be held, how high it can be shrieked, how loud it can be honked, how rapidly tongued, how wildly bent.
Now if they use those chops to convey something meaningful, that's what wins me over, but otherwise it's just a public display of ego, as far as I can tell. Something I don't think any musical style is immune to, by the way. (I'm thinking of Paganini here, but the list could go on for ever.)

Egos and musicians often just seem to go together, I've noticed. Whatcha gonna do? Shrugging

by halfwise Mon Mar 24, 2014 12:43 pm

There's jazz with feeling, then jazz just for technical aspects. I blame bebop for bringing in the second, though in the hands of a master even bebop can be wonderously soulful. Most musicians are still struggling for the technique.

But for true soul you have to go to blues. Son House once said: "Listening to blues is like watching a beautiful couple make love. Listening to jazz is like watching a group of guys take turns jerking off."

So I get the problem with jazz, which is why I usually prefer older styles like New Orleans, Chicago, or blues.

As for John Cage, he was remarkably inventive and can be credited with opening up the aural universe for music. His greatest contribution was the prepared piano, and his prepared piano suites are quite listenable. His other stuff are either gimmicks or soundscapes rather than true music. His place among the musical pantheon is secure, but as a toolmaker rather than a composer. He brought music into the realm of performance art.