Re: The Bigger, Badder, Even More Serious Thread [4]

[Pettytyrant101]

More bad news for english students-

'Ministers and officials have been working on a policy that could bring major changes to England's student loan system.
The plan could lead to higher tuition fee charges, and changes in loan terms and the way higher education works.
At its core, the big idea is that universities should take on some of the risk that their own students repay less of their student debt than expected.
Two supportive vice-chancellors from top-end institutions also pointed out that the plan could lead the way to higher fees.
One reason why the government has capped fees at £9,000 a year in England is to protect the Treasury; higher fees mean bigger loans and so more losses.
But if universities were to share some risk, the Treasury might allow them to charge more.
The easiest way to cut loan defaults would be to admit fewer women and students from poorer families, since both groups tend to have lower lifetime earnings.- BBC

Thank goodness we have a principle of free education still in Scotland - what have you done England?   

[azriel]

What have we done ?? Its a mindless crazy mess. We have a Government that cant see the wood for the trees, To dumb to realise the chaos its potentially creating & a Government that really doesnt care. Its still Victorian in a lot of ideas, & its more Nazi than it likes to admit. Women & poor families are subhuman ? less likely to do well ? 'Gor blimey Guv, luv a duck mister, I doffs me cap at ya sir I do, I really do sir '...( got a chimney I can crawl up sir ? Id be everso grateful sir )   

[Pettytyrant101]

Its just incredible they are even thinking along these lines- there was a time when the idea of free education for all and a free health service at the point of need were sacred in England too- now, I really dont know. The NHS there is half privatised, you have to pay prescription charges already and education is becoming the pursuit of the wealthy (and apparently males) only.

The best assets of any country is its people. England seems to be forgetting this.  

[Mrs Figg]

More bad news for english students-

'Ministers and officials have been working on a policy that could bring major changes to England's student loan system.
The plan could lead to higher tuition fee charges, and changes in loan terms and the way higher education works.
At its core, the big idea is that universities should take on some of the risk that their own students repay less of their student debt than expected.
Two supportive vice-chancellors from top-end institutions also pointed out that the plan could lead the way to higher fees.
One reason why the government has capped fees at £9,000 a year in England is to protect the Treasury; higher fees mean bigger loans and so more losses.
But if universities were to share some risk, the Treasury might allow them to charge more.
The easiest way to cut loan defaults would be to admit fewer women and students from poorer families, since both groups tend to have lower lifetime earnings.- BBC

Thank goodness we have a principle of free education still in Scotland - what have you done England?   

erm I read that article and you have put a bit of a spin on those words.
''The easiest way to cut loan defaults would be to admit fewer women and students from poorer families'',
what he actually said was they should make sure that didnt happen during the planning stage, not that it will happen.
Most undergraduates from poor families will get their fees paid by the University, they are helped a lot with grants and hardly any of those in need will have to pay the full fee as it depends on their parents earnings. So even if a student has fees of £9,000 per year they will have student loans and maintenence loans to cover it all. I very much doubt they would be allowed to target women and poorer kids, thats just ridiculous.

[Pettytyrant101]

I quoted the article without editing- its a copy and paste job- it was a 'breaking news' story earlier and seemed to come from tonights Newsnight (which I have yet to watch) and now its not even on their main page- I wonder if they screwed up then?

Can you link to where the article is now as I cant even find it.

Although doesnt change the fact the basic principle of free education is gone in england- you have fees.

[Pettytyrant101]

Found it!
Its had a complete rewrite, is about three times as long as the original article and its been moved off the Home page- presumably as its not as sensational a story as they first thought. Although in fairness it doesn't say it couldn't happen, only that it could be an unwanted consequence of the policy that they will have to try to mitigate in the drafting.
But shoddy work BBC!  

[Mrs Figg]

its not shoddy work BBC, its been edited, whats the problem?

[Pettytyrant101]

Its been edited to read significantly differently than it was when it was a one paragraph breaking news story- it was way more sensationalist and thats not what a public broadcaster should be doing with news, sensationalising it, even if they do correct it later.

[Mrs Figg]

its just got padded.

[Pettytyrant101]

Its more than padded, the thrust of the piece is completely different, presumably why they moved it from headline on the main homepage into the regional England page.

[Pettytyrant101]

Heres hoping this story doesnt change too!

'Labour has called for the NHS in England to stop privatising services until after the general election.
In a speech later, shadow health secretary Andy Burnham will say "privatisation is being forced through at pace and scale".
The government called this "pure political posturing" from a party with a record of privatisation when it was in power.
Labour argues the restructuring of the NHS, which came into force in 2013, led to privatisation by the back door.
This includes plans for the biggest outsourcing deal in NHS history which could see cancer care across Staffordshire privatised as part of a £1.2bn contract.
In his speech, Mr Burnham will say: "Commissioners have been ordered to put all services out to the market, NHS spending on private and other providers has gone through the £10bn barrier for the first time.
"When did the British public ever give their consent for this?
"It is indefensible for the character of the country's most valued institution to be changed in this way without the public being given a say."- BBC

[Pettytyrant101]

More dishonest politics from the Tories   

'The latest analysis by the Migration Advisory Committee, which advises ministers, suggested the impact of low-skilled immigration on GDP, productivity and prices since 1997 has been "very modest" and there had been virtually no effect on the overall employment rate of UK-born workers.
But it concluded that low-skilled migration had had a "small" negative impact on the wages of low-paid British workers while there had been knock-on effects on the availability of housing and school places in areas of the country with disproportionately high level of incomers.'

So the problems are clear- too many migrants being housed in specific areas instead of spread out around the country whilst at the same time areas with higher migratory numbers have not had the necessary increase in money to services to help cope.
And the low pay issue would be best dealt with by making the living wage mandatory for employers and not optional.

But no, the Tory response seems to have nothing to do with the facts their own advisory body has given them, instead they are going to play politics with UKIP using immigrants as the football.   

'The prime minister said the immigration system should "put Britain first".
"We are making sure that people come for the right reasons - which has meant addressing the magnetic pull of Britain's benefits system," he said.'

What magnetic pull? His own advisers said that has not happened. The EU report into so called 'benefit tourism' found it doesn't exist and demanded the UK government provide the evidence they were basing their claim on, they haven't, because it doesn't exist and even their own advisers say it doesn't exist  
But no, Cameron plows on in spite of evidence and facts bashing immigrants and pandering to the small minded.

"We change the rules so that no-one can come to this country and expect to get out-of-work benefits immediately - they must wait at least three months.
"And we are announcing today that we are cutting the time people can claim these benefits for. It used to be that European jobseekers could claim JSA or child benefit for a maximum of six months before their benefits would be cut off, unless they had very clear job prospects.'- BBC

So he is punishing immigrants for a problem his own advisers say doesn't even exist!

And worse-

'Mr Cameron will announce that this time limit - which also applies to child tax credit and child benefit - will be halved to three months from November.'

So if you come here with your kids, and you have a job then lose that job, probably through no fault of your own, in three months time if there is no other work for you its not just you who find themselves homeless and starving but your kids too.
And for what? To solve a problem they have invented to try to score cheap political points in the run up to an election. This is the lowest form of politics, where you use those without a voice and cause them hardship for nothing.
Is that really the country we want to be?

[David H]

What a brilliant solution to the immigration "problem": If you just make everybody's lives miserable in your own country, nobody else will want to come!   

We should try this in the USA. If we just make our standard of living lower than Latin America, we'll be free of all those pesky immigrants from the south.

(Of course then I'll be moving to Canada!  )

[Eldorion]

(Of course then I'll be moving to Canada!  )

Only until the Mounties catch you and toss you back south of the border.

[David H]

As Canadians, I know they'll appreciate the irony of the situation  

{{though as an American, I'm not sure I will.... }}

[Mrs Figg]

More dishonest politics from the Tories   

'The latest analysis by the Migration Advisory Committee, which advises ministers, suggested the impact of low-skilled immigration on GDP, productivity and prices since 1997 has been "very modest" and there had been virtually no effect on the overall employment rate of UK-born workers.
But it concluded that low-skilled migration had had a "small" negative impact on the wages of low-paid British workers while there had been knock-on effects on the availability of housing and school places in areas of the country with disproportionately high level of incomers.'

I should imagine most low skilled immigration gets swallowed up in the Black economy, there is a smaller percentage of migrants because a small percent is actually paying taxes, a lot of them are in the UK illegally. so its not dishonest at all.

So the problems are clear- too many migrants being housed in specific areas instead of spread out around the country whilst at the same time areas with higher migratory numbers have not had the necessary increase in money to services to help cope.

I think this is disingenous. Migrants choose to be housed in areas where there are established migrant communities, and therefore work. they are not 'housed' by the state, its their choice to live in highly dense areas of immigrants.

And the low pay issue would be best dealt with by making the living wage mandatory for employers and not optional.

But no, the Tory response seems to have nothing to do with the facts their own advisory body has given them, instead they are going to play politics with UKIP using immigrants as the football.   

'The prime minister said the immigration system should "put Britain first".
"We are making sure that people come for the right reasons - which has meant addressing the magnetic pull of Britain's benefits system," he said.'

About time too.

What magnetic pull? His own advisers said that has not happened. The EU report into so called 'benefit tourism' found it doesn't exist and demanded the UK government provide the evidence they were basing their claim on, they haven't, because it doesn't exist and even their own advisers say it doesn't exist  
But no, Cameron plows on in spite of evidence and facts bashing immigrants and pandering to the small minded.

"We change the rules so that no-one can come to this country and expect to get out-of-work benefits immediately - they must wait at least three months.
"And we are announcing today that we are cutting the time people can claim these benefits for. It used to be that European jobseekers could claim JSA or child benefit for a maximum of six months before their benefits would be cut off, unless they had very clear job prospects.'- BBC

So he is punishing immigrants for a problem his own advisers say doesn't even exist!

its not punishing, its saving money.

And worse-

'Mr Cameron will announce that this time limit - which also applies to child tax credit and child benefit - will be halved to three months from November.'

So if you come here with your kids, and you have a job then lose that job, probably through no fault of your own, in three months time if there is no other work for you its not just you who find themselves homeless and starving but your kids too.

If you come to any new country with your kids with no means of support its the same risk. some countries have NO benefit system AT ALL for migrants.

And for what? To solve a problem they have invented to try to score cheap political points in the run up to an election. This is the lowest form of politics, where you use those without a voice and cause them hardship for nothing.
Is that really the country we want to be?

well soon you wont have to worry about how terrible living in England is   .

[azriel]

Oh dear, this is gonna be a minefield ! I have to say that most people where I live are anti-immigrant because of the job situation. Many people who apply for jobs either dont get an answer back & then see someone from abroad has got the job they went after. I cant always believe its a case of "best man for the job" either ? A lot of foreign shop workers cant or wont speak English, Also, Ive heard people moaning about the housing situation. There's enough in the private sector but when it comes to social housing it gets a bit acidy ! Ive seen scuffles in the Council dept where an English family are arguing how long theyve waited for a home & then see a foreign family take the ones that are empty. Its a crying shame all round. I really find it hard to accept we can sustain everyone ? at least not here in my town ?

[Mrs Figg]

As an immigrant myself to another European country if I am unemployed I get jack shit from the italian state. not one penny of help, whether I have kids or am disabled, NOTHING. no Housing benefit, no disability benefit, totally alone. so before people whinge on about the Tories and how wicked they are, try living in most other European countries. The UK has a safety net.

[Pettytyrant101]

there is a smaller percentage of migrants because a small percent is actually paying taxes, a lot of them are in the UK illegally. so its not dishonest at all.- Figg

It is dishonest- if there was a large number of illegal migrants working in the Black market it would show up as an effect on the legal market. And the figures show that effect is slight. So the problem exists but not in scale.

'Migrants choose to be housed in areas where there are established migrant communities'

Only if they can afford to buy their own houses. If not its a council house- and you dont get a choice you get allocated.

'its not punishing, its saving money.'

It doesnt save money- their own advisery body says there is no money to save here as the problem is invented. The EU are still waiting on the UK government to back up the claim with the figures, they haven't provided any.

'some countries have NO benefit system AT ALL for migrants.'

And we are not one of them, and thats a good thing in my view to be celebrated not to be pillored as a weakness.


'Ive heard people moaning about the housing situation. There's enough in the private sector but when it comes to social housing it gets a bit acidy !'- Azriel

That goes back to what I was saying about housing immigrants in areas rather than spreading out the numbers acros the number.
Scotland as an immigrant deficit- we are trying to attract more immigrants and hold onto them, not have less, whilst some parts of England services and housing are being stretched to the limit by too many immigrants coming in too quickly. It makes no sense.

[Pettytyrant101]

Another bad day in Gaza-

The US and UN have condemned the shelling of a school housing displaced civilians in Gaza.
UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon said the attack, which killed 16, was "outrageous".
The shelling of a market near Gaza City killed 17.
Palestinian doctors said an Israeli air strike had also killed seven people in Khan Younis.
The Gaza health ministry said 106 people had been killed on Wednesday, bringing the overall death toll to 1,336. Most have been civilians.
The UN expressed outrage at the attack on the school in the Jabaliya refugee camp.
Spokesman Chris Gunness told the BBC that Israel had been told 17 times that the school was housing displaced people, saying the attack caused "universal shame".
Mr Ban later said: "I condemn this attack in the strongest possible terms. It is outrageous. It is unjustifiable, and it demands accountability and justice.
"Nothing is more shameful than attacking sleeping children."

The Israeli military said in a statement that its "initial inquiry suggests militants fired mortars... from the vicinity of the school in Jabaliya".
It said soldiers had "responded by firing towards the origin of fire".- BBC

[chris63]

[Mrs Figg]

 

[azriel]

I was gonna panic then I thought I heard him say...the ports are being closed down making it harder to leave the stricken countries ? yet earlier he said Ebola is being treated like a common cold & ports are wide open ? I think containment is a dam good idea for the outbreak at this moment. I think we should close borders, just for the mean while. We have to consider peoples lives & the trade route that the UK offers. I think a holiday in Clacton doesnt look so bad now ?

[Mrs Figg]

very naive of me, but it just clicked why the West and the US are quiet about Gaza. we sell the Israelis bombs and weapons. duh!   

[Pettytyrant101]

"As a Jewish youngster grwoing up in Budapest, an infant survivor of the Nazi genocide, I was for years haunted by a question resounding in my brain with such force that sometimes my head would spin: 'How was it possible? How could the world have let such horrors happen?'
In Gaza today we find ways of justifying the bombing of hospitals, the annihilation of families at dinner, the killing of pre-adolescents playing soccer on a beach.
In Isreal-Palestine the powerful party  has succeeded in painting itself as the victim, while the ones being killed and maimed become the perpetrators.
Netanyahu, you with surgical precision slaughter innocents, the young and the old, you have cruelly blockaded Gaza for years, starving it of necessities, you who have deprived Palestinians of more and more of their land, their water, their crops, their trees- you care about life?"

Gabor Mate, Holocaust survivor, in response to Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu saying that Palestinians don't care about life.