There and Back Again

Hi everyone,
I thought it would be nice to have somewhere to focus solely on the third Hobbit film in our post-viewing DOS blues. I don't mean that DOS discussion has nothing left for us--the discussion there has only become juicier now we know what the film is like--but it's nice to have something to look forward to!

To start things off, here's a rather wandering and pointless email I sent a year ago or so to the guy behind this interesting site: http://gary.appenzeller.net/TheHobbitDiff.htm


"Hello,
First off I just wanted to say that I really appreciate your work on appenzeler.net; the listing of main differences between The Hobbit and the first part of its film version have made me realize just how many of the book's best parts are already missing, or badly altered. I particularly feel that the handling of the Eagles has to be one of the worst dumb-downs Peter Jackson has committed yet, up there with the army of oathbreakers showing up on Pelennor fields in RotK.

Anyway, moving on from complaining, I wanted to point out that the role of Gandalf in the Battle of the Five Armies cannot be under-stressed in your list. It is his foreknowledge of the oncoming host of goblins and orcs, and his quick action in pointing out the threat while the armies of the elves, men, and dwarves are about to attack each other that gives the free people's any chance at all. Without Gandalf the orcs and goblins may well have caught the other three armies largely unawares, and certainly enmeshed in battle.

Practically, it might be a good idea to point out in Chapter 17, that the movie may take a different approach to this. Gandalf could certainly still have knowledge of the goblins mobilization and perform a necessary part in warning the three armies, but the invented roles of Legolas and Tauriel, from what I can glean from the second film's trailer, are setting up an internal struggle amongst the elves as to whether or not to aid the lake-men (or, speculatively, the dwarves in their opposition to Smaug). Considering the similarly invented unwillingness of Thranduil to aid the Dwarves of Erebor at the beginning of An Unexpected Journey this internal struggle may play a role in the whole coming-together of the Battle of the Five Armies. It would make a certain sense that Jackson would wish to tie-in The Two Towers elven angst over whether to aid the men of Rohan at Helm's Deep.

Regardless, and I know that went off the speculative deep-end, I simply wish to point out that the set-up for the Battle of the Five Armies may change considerably, especially in the level of foreknowledge the elves, men and dwarves have of the orcs and goblins' "secret" march from the Misty Mountains.
Thanks for your time, and I look forward to the release of The Desolation of Smaug and your comments concerning it.
-Thanks
P.S.
Please mention Beorn at the Battle of the Five Armies. In the book he shows up partway through the battle in bear form, apparently having followed the goblins all the way from his home near the Misty Mountains (he seems to have a good sense of when goblins are up to something). I believe this may change in the film due to the need of the trilogy to tie together the action around the Necromancer in Dol Guldur and the Five Armies battle. For all I know he may arrive pulling Radagast's sleigh as rabbits cling haphazardly to his back and the wizards pet birds shower him with ordure. Who knows! Oh yeah, PJ does."
   

That's an interesting site. I don't have time to read through it all right now, but I will later. It reminds me a bit of the Nit-Picker's Guide to LOTR.

http://jackflannel.org/lotr/

That is also an interesting site!
(My favourite bit is where the Nitpicker points out that in RotK Frodo is stung by Shelob in the stomach, despite still having the mithril shirt on!)

If I could only direct a person's attention to one thing on the first site I mentioned however, it would be his description of Bilbo's "key actions." These are decisions or actions made by Bilbo that justify his role in the Company, and lead to, or are derivative of, his character development.
It is very unpleasant to note how many of them are missing from AUJ, and now DOS.
This is, I think, the most tragic victim of PJ's re-imagining: Bilbo losing his best moments from the book.

I also found those links really interesting.  

Though I see the guy in your one, Eldo, has left out some changes even before they are out of the Shire. Says something of the amount of changes they made I guess.  

I'm going to bet that the Master of Lake-town gets set on fire from Smaug, a la Denethor and does some ludicrous leap from something.

Jumps into the freezing cold water with a satisfying sizzle and a hiss, most likely.

by Eldorion Yesterday at 5:23 am

That's an interesting site. Smile I don't have time to read through it all right now, but I will later. It reminds me a bit of the Nit-Picker's Guide to LOTR. Very Happy

http://jackflannel.org/lotr/



Thanks Eldorion cool ...

There and Back Again
Post by Forest Shepherd Yesterday at 3:14 am

To start things off, here's a rather wandering and pointless email I sent a year ago or so to the guy behind this interesting site: http://gary.appenzeller.net/TheHobbitDiff.htm

Thanks Forest...

bungobaggins wrote:I'm going to bet that the Master of Lake-town gets set on fire from Smaug, a la Denethor and does some ludicrous leap from something.

Yep sounds about right. I doubt I'd even care anymore at that point.

I hadnt though of that but now you say it....   

I shudder to think what will happen in TABA, since now we know the advancing orc army is one of Sauron. Which makes these films about the rise of the great lord. Something which the Hobbit was never about. Gandalf knew of his identity 100 years before the adventure of Bilbo ever began. Honestly I would have been fine if Gandalf had merely disappeared for 2 hours of the films and left it all up to our imagination. I mean why not he was gone for the second half of FOTR and that was the best film out of the first 3 IMO

Another thing I find sad in these films is the over emphasis on the ring and what it seems to be doing to Bilbo. In the book there are never any real indications that the ring had any negative effects on Bilbo at all. Which IMO would show the resilience of Hobbits against the power of the ring, had they left it some magical trinket. Jackson fails to let the story breath and grow. The ring should have started out just a magic trinket like in the book and became the one ring in the prologue of FOTR. Something very easy to accomplish. But then again that would have meant no slow motion shots of the ring, no ring dropping perfectly onto Bilbo's finger. I mean really Jackson must think the viewers of his films are morons and can not add 1 plus 1 to figure out what the ring is by the beginning of FOTR.

But anyways back to TABA... Its all going to end up being about the good folk of middle earth defeating Sauron's forces and him fleeing to Mordor. So we understand why there is a giant floating flaming eyeball in Jackson's LOTR films. Everything in Jackson's films goes back to the great evil growing, AKA great evil being Sauron. I mean we will get Smaug's demise of course, we'll get the BO5A (or 6 or 7 or 8, however many Jackass Jackson can squeeze into the film)with Sauron's orcs advancing towards the lonely mountain, well see the conclusion of the white council (again about Sauron's rise). Then hopefully we will see some of the journey home, and maybe the auction where Bilbo turns back up alive catching them selling off his things. Cutting back to old Bilbo and Frodo maybe. Or at the very least old Bilbo. Plus glimpses of Beorn the half bear half pig mutant, planet of the apes Bolg, Azog the fork monster, Radagast the hermit, and elves who have no sense of gravity or natural world physics. There's also Bard killing Smaug with his giant Ballista which they will make a big deal about him having to get to. (I'll take any and all bets on that is how it plays out) But IMO... TABA will surely be more about Thorin, and Sauron than it will be about Bilbo.

But there and back will definitely not be anything like the book that is so well beloved by everyone.... except Peter Jackson

AND WE STILL HAVEN'T SEEN A SINGLE THING ABOUT DAIN IRONFOOT WHO ENDS UP KING UNDER THE MOUNTAIN.

If there's some sort of wrap up montage like at the end of Revenge of the Tshi, I'm going to scream.

bungobaggins wrote:If there's some sort of wrap up montage like at the end of Revenge of the Tshi, I'm going to scream.

Twenty bucks says TABA ends with Gandalf bringing an orphaned baby Frodo to Bag End and handing him to Bilbo, who then watches the sunset while the music swells.

The baby will have a ring-shaped scar on his forehead.

Now that would just be mixing too many fantasy stories.

Hey, why the hell not?

Radaghast wrote:The baby will have a ring-shaped scar on his forehead.

Then Bilbo will stand onto of the Carrock and hold him up while Swahili music is played in the background.

Eldorion wrote:

bungobaggins wrote:If there's some sort of wrap up montage like at the end of Revenge of the Tshi, I'm going to scream.

Twenty bucks says TABA ends with Gandalf bringing an orphaned baby Frodo to Bag End and handing him to Bilbo, who then watches the sunset while the music swells.

Eldo, you are going to give me a heart attack!   

Tinuviel wrote:

Radaghast wrote:The baby will have a ring-shaped scar on his forehead.

Then Bilbo will stand onto of the Carrock and hold him up while Swahili music is played in the background.

But then a creature of metal and wheels sent back by Saruman will come hunting for the child, to keep him from ever fighting against the dark forces of the future.

Radaghast wrote:Hey, why the hell not?

That's the thing I always keep in mind with Jackson.

I'm curious as to whether Sauron will play any kind of important role in the third film. He's already sent out his stupid army-- and there has lived up to his LotR standards--so will he simply become the watchful malice sitting on top of a tower for the rest of the trilogy?

And how exactly will Dain and the dwarves of the Iron Hills be alerted to the change of ownership in Erebor? And will it only be the Iron Hills that are summoned? Or will
"all seven of the dwarf-blahblahs" show up?


Will the Master and Alfrid die in the movie? Or simply slink out of sight, similarly to the book.

Well, he will have to be chased away from Dol Goldur by the White Council I guess. Maybe Gandalf goes and gets the rest of them after escaping or something.

Though I don't really know if I want to speculate on what Jackson and co have come up. It's probably a lot worse worse than my speculations anyway.

TABA Is going to be 90% battle scenes. First battle with Smaug & Laketown. Second battle with Sauron and the WC in Dolgoonies, Third battle with Sauron and Azog against Dwarves & Elves.

And then the eagles fly Bilbo home?   

Agreed, Mrs Figg. I honestly am expecting something similar to HP DH2, and I wouldn't be surprised if the last film clocks in at under 2.5 hours (at least in theatres).