Doctor Who [6]

No one else able to confirm or disprove this?- does she say it or am I just hearing things? (I tried searching for it on google, but either I am the only person to notice it-seems unlikely- or I am hearing things, as I couldnt find any reference to it anywhere)

David- I meant to say before but forgot- I have given you series 6 in the broadcast order- however there is one story -Night Terrors- which was in the second half of the series when it should have been in the first (it was moved solely for scheduling reasons) and it works best in my opinion where it was originally meant to be and because of overall plot arc things doesnt fit where it was shown.
In which case the viewing order should be- imp Astronaut, day of the moon, curse of the black spot, the doctors wife, night terrors,- the rest as is (although without night terrors obviously)

Oh, and one more thing- stop watching at 41:23- the last three or four second they tacked something on that has nothing to do with the episode story in an attempt to make it somewhat fit the overall arc (it still doesnt help) but it is spoilery so avoid- you can always go back to this episode and watch the last few seconds when you get to where this episode was in the schedule to see what the spoiler bit is.
But I strongly recommend watching it in the original intended order for at least three good reasons (none of which I can give now, so you'll have to trust me*), not the broadcast order, even if it does mean remembering to switch off a few seconds before the episode ends.

*the reasons= for those who watched series 6 and might be curious to know-

Spoiler:

The BBC are releasing the Monster Collection- a series of DVD with a couple stories featuring Who's most iconic monsters.
The Beeb are marketing it as -

"hide behind the sofa" collections bringing together episodes of the scariest and most iconic monsters from Doctor Who's classic and recent series. These collections are perfect for younger viewers."

 Who- terrifying children for 50 years!  

The dvd's are-

Daleks-

The Daleks (1963): On the planet Skaro, the mutated Daleks plan a final assault on the Thals. Starring William Hartnell as the First Doctor.

Asylum of the Daleks (2012): Kidnapped by his oldest foe, the Doctor is forced on an impossible mission - to a place even the Daleks are too terrified to enter ... the Asylum. Starring Matt Smith as the Eleventh Doctor.

Cybermen

The Tomb of the Cybermen (1967): The TARDIS arrives on the planet Telos where an Earth archaeological expedition, led by Professor Parry, is attempting to uncover the lost tombs of the Cybermen. Starring Patrick Troughton as the Second Doctor.

Rise of the Cybermen and The Age of Steel (2006): Lurking in the shadows are creatures made to destroy - one of The Doctor's greatest fears have come true ... the Cybermen are reborn. Starring David Tennant as the Tenth Doctor.

Sontarans

The Time Warrior (1973): Missing scientists have been kidnapped by a Sontaran, Linx, and taken back to medieval England, where they are working under hypnosis to repair his crashed spaceship. Starring Jon Pertwee as the Third Doctor.

The Sontaran Stratagem and The Poison Sky (2008): With planet Earth choking under the poison sky, the Doctor must stop the Sontarans' threat to the planet. Starring David Tennant as the Tenth Doctor.

The Master

Terror of the Autons (1971): The Master arrives on Earth at a circus run by a man named Rossini and steals a dormant Nestene energy unit from a museum. He reactivates it using a radio telescope and uses his hypnotic abilities to take control of a small plastics firm. Starring Jon Pertwee as the Third Doctor.

The End of Time parts one and two (2009-10): With almost everyone on Earth now recast in his image. The Master controls the world. He's shocked however when he realizes that one person hasn't changed... Starring David Tennant as the Tenth Doctor.

Davros

Genesis of the Daleks (1975): The Time Lords intercept the transmat beam taking the Doctor, Sarah and Harry back to Nerva and deposit them instead on the planet Skaro at an early point in its history. Starring Tom Baker as the Fourth Doctor.

The Stolen Earth and Journey's End (2008): The return of an old enemy leaves Earth along with 26 other planets stolen from their places. As the Doctor and Donna look for the whereabouts of Earth, former companions of the Doctor assemble a resistance against the new Dalek Empire. Starring David Tennnant as the Tenth Doctor.

Silurians

The Silurians (1970): Investigating a nearby cave system, the Doctor discovers it is the base of a group of intelligent reptiles, termed Silurians, who went into hibernation millions of years ago but have now been revived by power from the research centre. Starring Jon Pertwee as the Third Doctor.

The Hungry Earth and Cold Blood (2010): The Doctor tries to get everyone to Rio, but nothing quite goes as planned. They arrive in a small Welsh village where the Doctor immediately senses that the ground isn't quite right. Starring Matt Smith as the Eleventh Doctor.

Soundtrack news- there were some grumblings that the xmas episode was not included on the series 7 soundtrack and there was no series 6 xmas episode soundtrack at all- well that's cause the BBC have worked out how to make more money out of them by releasing the soundtrack to the last two xmas specials on a separate cd and should be on sale from the 21st of October. (Alternatively wait for someone to upload them to youtube and download from there and teach the BBC a lesson in not milking their Who fans!)

OK Petty, I just dumped the first folder of series 6 into VLC not realizing it was 3 files. As a result I've just watched Moon, then Astronaut, then Prequel, in that order.   

My brain is a bit warped but I think I'm getting it sorted. Let me sleep on it. I thin I know about River but don't tell me. I'm still annoyed that Rory still holds his Roman his 2000 year old identity and yet has the maturity of a 20 something and doesn't seem to be plastic. I'm bothered that we saw what is presumably the oldest form of this Dr die and get burned without regeneration, and yet presumably he will die and regenerate again this year. Have they explained that? Dont tell me yet. I'm troubled that they only used 5 gallons of gas for the cremation. That's nowhere near enough. Especially in a boat. It's like trying to barbeque a chicken with a cigarette lighter. Worse than useless. Just ask Gram Parsons. Not even going to address characters for now, but i'm beginning to see what pisses off Figg and Am. Gotta sleep on this to sort it. Good night.

Hold on- you watched the first two parter- backwards?
And noto nly that you watched a timey wimy episode- backwards?

Um, Im not sure that wouldnt significantly effect your viewing, to say the least- I cant even conceive of that-did you not notice the first episode you watched stared with a recap of one you hadnt seen?  

I'm still annoyed that Rory still holds his Roman his 2000 year old identity and yet has the maturity of a 20 something and doesn't seem to be plastic. - David

He says in that episode its like a door in his head- he can remember it only if he really tries, otherwise not. So it doesnt affect him moment to moment.


" I'm bothered that we saw what is presumably the oldest form of this Dr die and get burned without regeneration, and yet presumably he will die and regenerate again this year. "

Thats a little unfair- do bear in mind when that episode was broadcast there was no hint Matt was leaving or of any new Doctor on the horizon.
What you saw is what the episode said- a two hundred year older version of the Doctor was shot on the beach before he could regenerate after inviting his friends to witness it.
How that comes about and the resolution to it is the story arc of series 6. The fun is in the mystery and unraveling it.

I'm troubled that they only used 5 gallons of gas for the cremation.- David

Your probably right on that, I never really thought about it- maybe old Carlton had some more in the truck, we dont see the preparation and lighting after all.

Dave wrote:but i'm beginning to see what pisses off Figg and Am.

 You're going to give our dear Petty a heart attack.

At this point I feel I have solid grounds to doubt his opinion on these episodes based on his viewing technique!

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Hold on- you watched the first two parter- backwards?
And noto nly that you watched a timey wimy episode- backwards?

Um, Im not sure that wouldnt significantly effect your viewing, to say the least- I cant even conceive of that-did you not notice the first episode you watched stared with a recap of one you hadnt seen?  

No, I guess I didn't notice that it was supposed to be a recap. Just that it was more disjointed even than usual. But every episode's intro drops you right into the middle of unexplained action and expects you to start picking up clues on the fly, so I did. Plus I knew it was the first episode of a particularly controversial series, and I have a long history of watching Who in bits and pieces as they come.

So I guess I just came in with an open mind and started grabbing clues and making hypotheses out of habit, and before I knew it they'd saved the Earth from the Silence. Then a new episode started, and blue envelopes with invitations stated arriving. Nothing unusual there either. It's not until old Canton is introduced that I started questioning if I'd made a mistake (confirmed by the time we're in the Oval Office) and by then it was too late....So off i went on the next ride, while trying to sort how the two stories were coming together.

Two key clues I had while watching Astronaut were that MY first Dr from Moon started with a beard and chains, so I knew that the Dr who got the invitation was continuous to this story and not the Dr who died. Also I'd seen the child regenerate and had more concrete pregnancy clues, so I picked up on some more of the subtler clues as they came in Astronaut than I otherwise might. So my hypothesis at the moment is that River and the girl are one, and their mother seems obvious. After sleeping on it though, there are multiple possible paternity options which the writers have left intentionally, so I'm still keeping an open mind. Damn! They're sure putting Amy and Rory through the ringer,aren't they?  

He says in that episode its like a door in his head- he can remember it only if he really tries, otherwise not. So it doesnt affect him moment to moment.

My take on the Rory Roman conversation was that while he said it didn't bother him in normal life, from his expressions it clearly did. Exactly like a combat veteran who compartmentalizes the war so he can cope with peace, but it's still all festering behind the door. I could try to forgive the lack of continuity of his body if only they'd give him more of a Highlander-style gravitas as the 2000 year old man he is, who had been doing heroic feats throughout British history. He should be older and wiser than the Dr in some ways, yet that doesn't come across. At least yet. Don't tell me though. And Amy should definitely treat him better. But again, don't tell me.

Moon starts with the word 'Previously' written across the screen!   Were you buckied?  

All I can say is I dont think Rory is lying when he says he doesnt remember it all the time, but I also dont think that when he remembers it is as much a choice as he tries to make out either.

Some 1st Doctor clips from The sensorites that I like- got some good early stuff in it the Sensorites.

Reflecting on life in the TARDIS-



And the Doctor makes a typically Doctor sort of threat-



And the original cybermen- and yes they do look silly but somehow I still find them more chilling than Nuwho Cybermen, I think its the voice-



And I love the exchange at the end of the conversation- both funny and scary (because of the deadpan, matter of fact reply mixed with some good old fashioned body horror)

"You are condemning us all to die! Have you no heart?"

"No, that is one of the the weaknesses we have removed."

Talking off body horror- heres the 9th Doctor in Moffats creepy The Empty Child

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Moon starts with the word 'Previously' written across the screen!   Were you buckied?  

What's your point?  Besides what does Previously  even mean in the context of Dr Who? 

Seriously, the setup that patches the picture and sound from the the flashdrive through many wires and boxes to the TV screen and an unassociated set of speakers is rather like a Tardis control console with lots of random plugs, buttons, nobs, mice, more buttons... When the picture finally comes to life I wait for the first squirt of sound to come out the speakers, then I dive for the chair and put my feet up. No remote controls on this setup!  

All I can say is I dont think Rory is lying when he says he doesnt remember it all the time, but I also dont think that when he remembers it is as much a choice as he tries to make out either.

I don't think he's lying either. The vacant stare and the long pauses. My Dad was a bit like that. It's not that he remembered the War constantly, but at any time something as innocent as a sudden noise or a bird flying across the sun could jerk him back into a foxhole... for the rest of his life.

I'll have to rewatch that scene carefully. It occurs to me that his Last Centurion history gives him serious cred as a old-school time traveler and puts him on the same level as the Dr in some ways.

It's also unclear to me whether, if he fell from a cliff, you'd see blood and guts or gears and springs on the beach below. I think this storyline deserved more development if they were going to use it. It's not clear to me, when the Dr is in historical London, whether Centurion is just around the corner. If so, did the Dr ever stop and say, "Good job. Keep it up! Not long now..." That would have been helpful to just mention in conversation for continuity. Also he should be plastic with a gun in his wrist.

If not, then there's an alternate timeline, so why are the memories so central and what is he doing in the uniform at the beginning of the Xmas episode? So many, many loose ends on this one. But please don't answer my questions here. I'll rewatch it and then see what else develops in the series.

And I'll try to get the orders right in the future... 

Besides what does Previously even mean in the context of Dr Who?- David

Thats a fair point.  

"It occurs to me that his Last Centurion history gives him serious cred as a old-school time traveler and puts him on the same level as the Dr in some ways. "

I entirely agree. But even from the first Rory on the TARDIS adventure- Vampires in Venice- he sees the Doctor for what he is much clearer than any previous companion ever- "Its not that you make people do things, its that you make them want to impress you, not to let you down. You have no idea how dangerous you make people to themselves."
That understanding the Doctor more and more and being more on a par with him is one of my favourite aspects of Rory's character, yet he never loses his own original perspective- its still all about Amy for him.
I think it was Amarie commented once that if it wasn't for Amy, Rory wouldn't be a companion- he's not traveling to be with the Doctor, and so he doesnt have the usual slightly awe struck blindness previous companions have (I would put Donna as the other main exception to that rule) and indeed Rory can see thats what normally happens to people in the Doctor's presence.

"if he fell from a cliff, you'd see blood and guts or gears and springs on the beach below."

Blood and guts- plastic Rory was a Neesteene duplicate drawn from Amy's memory from stuff in her life- but they didnt know the effect the crack had on Amy's ability too draw things from memory back out of the crack- so when they took the imprint for the Neesteenr controlled people in the trap- the Romans- they got Rory too- the body was a Neesteen creations, living plastic- but the Rory imprint dumped inside was the real one who went through the crack- its Rory's real consciousness in a Neesteene body.
When that universe collapsed the Doctor 'rebooted it' using the Pandorica and it ceased to exist- time travellers in general can retain memories of any event they were involved in- whether its in an alternative universe, a bubble one or whatever, but even more so of course with Amy- who can also remember a childhood with parents and the childhood with the crack in the wall and no parents. Both happened to her.
At their wedding, when the TARDIS appears Rory says to his mother in law- "How could we have forgotten the Doctor? I was plastic!"

"what is he doing in the uniform at the beginning of the Xmas episode?"

 Um, I would have thought that is obvious- the same reason Amy is wearing her police woman strippergram costume from 11th Hour, they are on their honeymoon, in the honeymoon suite, and when Rory is asked why he is dressed as a Roman he blushes and says "Its just a bit of fun".

"And I'll try to get the orders right in the future..."

Maybe lay of the cranberry juice! But several of the episodes come with a prequel, and there are a few two parters, so do be careful.
Maybe try opening vlc player, opening the folder with the files and just drag and drop the episode into vlc, that way you can be sure of the order.

"what is he doing in the uniform at the beginning of the Xmas episode?"

Embarassed Um, I would have thought that is obvious- the same reason Amy is wearing her police woman strippergram costume from 11th Hour, they are on their honeymoon, in the honeymoon suite, and when Rory is asked why he is dressed as a Roman he blushes and says "Its just a bit of fun".

All the same, if he's a combat vet and that was his uniform he's not likely to put it on for roll playing. 
[and if he does......probably not good....  ]

If Amy asked you to put it on, would you?

And we know this is sort of a thing is, um, appealing to Amy- in the 11th Hour when Rory first meets the Doctor he says to Amy first "But he wasn't real? He was imaginary."
and then, "But you made me dress up as him!"
That combined with her choice of job dressing up in uniforms I think for the adults watching we can hazard a guess at Amy's tastes in that direction!

I meant to ask David- what did you make of the xmas episode? Was it the first xmas episode of Who you have seen?

Yes. My first Xmas Who. I recognized it as a different beast from the start, playfully reworking all the Christmas mythology, and I enjoyed it very much for what it was. You're right though that it would have been much better with several generations of Who fans, and ample rum and eggnog.

If Amy asked you to put it on, would you?

OK, I see your point. Not me personally of course  ...and especially with Amy  ....but....ummmm...  

I guess what I'm trying to say is if I were Rory, and I'd been waiting for 2000 years as a 20 year old male, rejecting the affections of 100 generations of lovely British maidens.... (he DID reject them didn't he? Has that been addressed? )....

...well, he can hardly be blamed I guess.....

I recognized it as a different beast from the start- David

As a general rule (barring Tennants regen episode at xmas) xmas episode have a different (more drunk) audience.
It gets a lot of extra viewers and so they tend to be as divorced from the main season story as possible- and of course stuffed full of Xmas stuff.

To be honest Ive never really felt they worked for the most part- you have just watched the xmas episode I felt got it just about spot on, my next favorite being the following years xmas episode, which I dont think is quite as good but its one Mrs Figg liked more.

We'll see what the next one's like. I might try trotting one out next holiday season if it seems the right people are visiting.

It sound's like a couple of old friends who are Who fans are coming to help with harvest, which will be starting in about a week and a half. I think I can say (with some pride) that I'm approaching the point where I can hold up my end of a conversation now! 

Well keep me posted on your viewing Im enjoying discussing them through someone else eyes as it were- also do make sure to remind me when you get to the end of the Doctor's Wife- so I can remind you watch Night Terrors at that point!

Pettytyrant101 wrote:
and then, "But you made me dress up as him!"

Just thinking about this quote, relationships, and character arcs.
That's gotta be about as awkward a foundation for a friendship as any I can think of!  

If thats a genuine Moffat quote Chris then thats interesting, as it hints that Moffat in his head goes with something along the lines of the 'Other' theory of the Doctor.

David- I hadnt given that much thought, but yeah, explains Rory's early attitude to the Doctor. And with Amy's liking for her men dresssing up kind of puts a new spin on her line in Amy's Choice when she puts them both in ponchos "Aw my boys. My poncho boys."

yes, it's a legit moffat quote  can't remember the interview, but i definitely know i have heard him say it.