Doctor Who [6]

And people think Americans go overboard with patriotism. Sheesh.- Halfwise

American dont have anyone to stand for but a politician- no one would stand for a politician, but a proper monarch, well that's different.  

Rory--We've got to grow up sometime.
Amy--Why?

Poor old Rory- he does get a rough time being in love with Amy. And Im afraid its not the last time between there and present day Who that love will raise its head in a solution to an episode- something that has annoyed others beside you, me included, but not always- there are some occasions it seems more justified than in others to me. But its undeniably a theme, love , running throughout the Pond era. (And at least its an early example to counter Ms Figg's claim that Amy never does anything- as only Amy's second ep, her first adventure, the star whale, and the WW2 ep she sees the solution the Doctor can't)
I suspect if you are watching it aged 6 it not only works a a lot better but also gives an interesting lesson (that and the Dalek ep is generally considered the poorest ep of series 5 although for my money the whole episode is worth a watch just to see a Dalek trundling about with a tray and a teapot barking "Would you like a cup of tea?"  )

I will leave discussing Amy's character arc until you are into series six for reasons that will become apparent fairly soon into it.

Star Whales are cool (and its the first time we get a glimpse of the anger under this Doctor when he slams his fists down yelling "Nobody human has anything to say to me today!")

"All that said, I've really enjoyed it."

At the end of the day- that's all Who should be about.

“We saw some amazing actresses for this part. But when Karen came through the door, the game was up — she was funny, clever, gorgeous and sexy. Or Scottish, which is the quick way of saying it. A generation of little girls will want to be her. And a generation of little boys will want them to be her too” - Steven Moffat

New Zealand enter the 50th Celebrations in style by minting a coin-





"A total of 250 of the 1 Troy ounce coins are being struck. They are being issued in collaboration with BBC Worldwide Australia & New Zealand as legal tender under the authority of Niue Island. Each has a nominal value of $NZ200 but will cost $NZ3,050 (£1,570.14; $AUS2,672.41; $US2,502.83 - NB: Conversion rates liable to change) excluding duties and taxes.
The coins are 9999 gold, have a proof finish, and are 32.6mm in diameter. The reverse features an engraved relief of the TARDIS while the obverse has the Ian Rank-Broadley depiction of the Queen Elizabeth II, with the border bearing the engraved words DOCTOR WHO 50TH ANNIVERSARY 1963 – 2013. They are being packaged in a wooden coin case with elevating coin insert for display purposes, and will be supplied with a gold-foiled certificate of authenticity.
Next month, New Zealand Mint will be issuing half-ounce silver coins honouring each of the 11 Doctors."- Gallifrey Base


And a terragen pic I just finished, which I include here just 'cause I stuck a TARDIS in it for the hell of it, so it is Who related!

But its undeniably a theme, love , running throughout the Pond era. (And at least its an early example to counter Ms Figg's claim that Amy never does anything- as only Amy's second ep, her first adventure, the star whale, and the WW2 ep she sees the solution the Doctor can't)

I think love can be a great resolution when it's coupled with understanding and choice. The Star Whale is a perfect example. It's when the memory of Love can physically destroy bombs and time machines, (or bring back the Dr from oblivion for that matter), that I get angry. Velveteen Rabbit moments.  

I can't help it. It feels to me like a poor patch on bad writing. And even that wouldn't bother me so much if some of the rest of the writing weren't so brilliant. It leaves me wanting to grab them by the collar and scream "YOU'RE BETTER THAN THIS!!!!"    

And to be fair to Mrs Figg, however she may have stated it, I believe her point was simply that, in the episodes she had seen at that time, Amy was a real lightweight compared to companions like Donna (and she later admitted that Amy was growing on her in later episodes.) From what I've seen so far, I think that's entirely fair. We'll see what I think once I've seen series 6....

By the way, watching several episodes at once is good fun for getting an broad overview of the series, but it's a bit harder to appreciate any one episode. I think I'll go a little slower through series 6, at least to start with.

Regards Figg I am sure she will come on to state her case herself, but it was more her previous objections that Amy did nothing but stand around looking pretty I thought unfair judged on the episodes- whether someone likes her character or not is another matter, but thats not something I feel that impinges on this point- she does plenty.

When it comes to the love thing I largely agree, as I said there are some episodes I feel its use is justified and others not- although I would dispute the assertation love brings the Doctor back, its not to do with love, its to do with memory (another big theme ), the crack in time and the influence it has had on Amy over the course of her life.

"I think I'll go a little slower through series 6, at least to start with."

Thats not a bad idea and you have until November 23rd before it returns for the 50th episode.
Its worth baring in mind occasionally too the painful week long wait between episodes you have to endure when watching 'live'. (the 1st 2 episodes of series 6 are a good example of this)
Moffat is often as expert in using the time the show is not on air as he is at using the time when it is (On Who and Sherlock for that matter).

although I would dispute the assertation love brings the Doctor back, its not to do with love, its to do with memory (another big theme ),

Sure, that's true to a point. But they're all muddled up together, and neither one is particularly convincing in my book.

The dalek android doctor is asked to remember, AND to remember Love. The memory alone wasn't enough to make him Real.

The plastic Rory is only Rory because of his memories. Or is it because of Amy's memories? Or is it because of Amy's Love? Or is it because of Rory's memories of Loving Amy?

And is there any question that Amy's memories of the Dr are thoroughly entangled with her Love for him?

It's all just so warm and squishy it makes me want to take a shower. Do you see what I mean?

I'm not a big Amy fan either. I see her on the screen and I simply don't believe what I see. Donna was a firework and Amy is flat as a pancake no matter what emotion she tries to portray.

Hehe... Dave, just wait till you meet Clara.

Goes to show how views can differ Amarie- Id say so far Clara was pretty flat and I still dont get any feel for her personality yet. I dont feel like I know who she is at all.

David- regards the memory thing i dont have any problems with that as its explained within the shows premise and the concept that a crack in time eats people and events, and that Amy, who has it had pouring through her head all her life has the ability to bring back things and people eaten by the crack in time seems a fair enough scifi/faery tale concept to me.
The love thing I am less keen on, and there at two or three more occasions between series 5 to 7 where it comes up with mixed results in my view.

Pettytyrant101 wrote:American dont have anyone to stand for but a politician- no one would stand for a politician, but a proper monarch, well that's different.

We don't stand for the politicians, we stand for the national anthem itself and the ideals it represents.  And, of course, for whichever pop star has been invited to sing it, since pop stars are our version of an aristocracy.

since pop stars are our version of an aristocracy- Eldo

Given the options- politician or pop star, I think we will stick with a monarch.  
Im sure there are many stand to attention for Miley Cyrus or someone like her pranicng about in her birthday suit, but they dont have to get out their chair so probably dont count!

Seriously though, most of the British defenders of monarchism that I've talked to seem to be under the impression that under a Presidential system you are expected to treat your politicians with the same level of respect or deference that you would treat a monarch.  That's not even close to being true. It's the President's job to represent the country sometimes, but no one considers the President a national symbol or anything like that.

Yes but then you lose an advantage in tough times- a rallying point- you only have to look at WW2 to see how effective that can be for moral and maintaining social coherence.

The thing about Amy that annoys me the most, (apart from her running aimlessly around for no apparent reason), is the way the plotlines seem to be built up around her being someones girlfriend or wife or mother, everything is about her female emotions, hormones, reproductive capacity, relationship problems, moaning at Rory, etc etc,
not much is about her being a person on a wonderful adventure in the TARDIS. Its not about her exploring time and space and her being excited to meet aliens because most of the time she is grumbling and indifferent or blasé. Rose and Donna seemed thrilled to be with the Doctor, and they regularly did things to save the world, Amy sometimes figures things out and sometimes is useful, but most of the time she is a hanger on just there for the smart arse quips and the running about. In nearly every episode she is either physically or mentally tortured, a normal person would have gone barking mad, but she doesnt seem to mind, its no biggie. Some of the torture Amy suffers borders on sick, and thats why I pitied her character in the end, but I dont admire her like I admire Donna, Rose and Martha.

I think we agree on Clara, Petty. Her acting is better though, or more of my liking if I am to pretend I am diplomatic about it. Perhaps it has to do with the victorian vs modern Clara that you wrote about earlier, she's a bit confusing.

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Yes but then you lose an advantage in tough times- a rallying point- you only have to look at WW2 to see how effective that can be for moral and maintaining social coherence.

Cause we know how much help Americans need to rally around the flag in times of crisis.

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Yes but then you lose an advantage in tough times- a rallying point- you only have to look at WW2 to see how effective that can be for moral and maintaining social coherence.

Amen to that!

Haakon 7. King Haakon VII, escaped to the US and kept the people's spirit up.




Graffiti from WW2, which gets repainted now and then I believe. "Be true to H7"

Perhaps Moff just doesn't write women well? I don't know...

Her acting is better though, or more of my liking- Amarie

Personal taste is one of those things outside debate of course, but I do wonder sometimmes how much might be down to her Scottishness (both in forming others opinions and in forming my own)
To me Amy is very typically Scottish- the fact Moffat is a Scot means this is one of the few times on British TV when a character who is supposed to be Scottish feels completely genuinely Scottish to me.
A good comparison in Who is 2nd Doctor companion Jamie- the character is a Highlander from the time of the Jacobite revolution- the actor is English, the writers English and they think putting him in a kilt and having him occasionally say things like "By jings" and shouting '"Brigadoon" makes him Scottish.

With Amy she feels entirely genuine to me, right down to the way she uses anger to mask pain.
I rewatched the impossible astronaut recently and she very nearly moved me to tears on

Spoiler:

Perhaps Moff just doesn't write women well? I don't know...- Amarie

I dont personally think so- he made his name as a writer with strong female characters starting with Press Gang and rightly received a lot of acclaim for doing so. Im sure he finds it amusing that the very thing he was given plaudits for when he began is the very subject he is accused of sexism over now- yet how he writes women hasnt altered a great deal in my opinion.

I think he is trying. There are a lot of strong women among the characters in each episode, both heroes and villains.

Elizabeth X and the head of the Venicean Vampires come to mind. Both strong leaders, and both sympathetic.

I'm not keeping score, but Churchill is the only comparable male leader I can remember of the ones I've just watched, while other women come to mind.

It doesn't mean he writes them well (don't feel qualified to judge at this point) but I think his effort is clear.

thats just it, he does fiesty and not much else, it gets a bit predictable. As far as the Scottish thing goes, I dont really notice it, I base my opinions on the plot and her character, if it doesnt translate, then its failed as a characterisation, its not my responsibility as a viewer to get that her nationality makes her act in a certain way.

He does wimpy pretty well too, if you happen to be a guy....

if it doesnt translate, then its failed as a characterisation, its not my responsibility as a viewer to get that her nationality makes her act in a certain way.- Mrs Figg

Yet as a Scot I am supposed to get how English people would react?- and I do because I have been exposed all my life to english tv characters- yet the English have never really been exposed to genuine Scottish characters that often, most Scottish roles on  English tv are either just violent or drunks, or usually both and written with little sympathy or understanding.
I am not using that as an excuse for anything, merely an observation of one reason why I might find Amy entirely credible in her reactions and others do not.

I find that a pretty odd defence, but if it works for you.

I already said it wasnt in defence of anything, I am merely musing on differences between perceptions of the character and on possible reasons for it- her Scottishness was in my mind because I just rewatched ImP Astronaut as I said above, and was greatly moved by that particular line, how typically Scottish a reaction it seemed to me,  and at the same time realised to non Scottish ears it might sound quite different.

You know I am sure Amy says 'c*nt' in the Doctors Wife!

35 minutes 50 seconds in, right after

Spoiler:

 

Check it for yourself-

http://www.novamov.com/video/5349b9052d2d5

(as usual ad block ect recommended for such sites- worked fine for me)