Doctor Who [6]

''But like with Pandorica, I was really disappointed by the 11th Dr standing on a podium, shouting defiance at all his enemies. I've always seen the Doctor as the archetypal quiet rumpled wise man who keeps the world running smoothly from behind the scenes.'' Dave.

I had the same reaction, I found him an arrogant twit in that scene, all this the Doctor as a 'god' nonsense makes me go off him. Tennant and Eccleston never did that megalomaniac stuff, it makes me dislike him.

all this the Doctor as a 'god' nonsense makes me go off him. Tennant and Eccleston never did that megalomaniac stuff, it makes me dislike him.- Mrs Figg

 

The whole reason Moffat is doing this is to reset the whole God thing- everyone knows the Doctor, the Lonely God that RTD created.

Its 10 who thinks he is a God, its 10 who is borne up in crucifixion pose upon the prayers of the people of earth chanting his name like a second coming of Christ.



Its 10 who first uses his name to put fear into his enemies- its 10 who earns the title the Oncoming Storm.
Its 10 who punishes the Family, for all eternity.
Its 10 who declares himself a God and claims control over Time in Waters of Mars.

Moffats entire first three years are all about Tenants Doctor- and this is Moffats big reset switch to put it right- just as the Cracks in Time were his reset switch for getting rid of an earth that knew all about aliens and had been invaded every xmas for about 3 years on the trot, not to mention having the whole planet towed across space or being protected by a Thunderbirds style giant floating aircraft carrier.

Sorry but you are very wrong on this-

Spoiler:

"He will rise high than ever before, and then fall further than he ever has."

This is all about fixing the mistakes of the RTD era in relation to the Doctor's character and making him again Doctor Who?

no its all about making him look like a twit.

So he is a twit when he makes a big speech but not when he is rising up to float in the air in a messianic white glow created by everyone on the planet chanting his name?
Or when he declares all of time is his to do with as he pleases?
Or when he throws people into event horizons of black holes, traps them in mirrors or freezes them in time for all eternity as a punishment?
Or when he uses just his name as a threat?

The whole Doctor acts like a God is an RTD era creation.

Why do you think in Moffat era he reset all the various invasions, the cyberking stomp over London? The Dalek invasion? The cybermen invasion? The stupid airship?

Spoiler:

River: This was exactly you. All this. All of it. You make them so afraid. When you began all those years ago, sailing off to see the Universe, did you ever think you'd become this? The man who can turn an army around at the mention of his name.

Its pretty clear to me that RTD created the whole acting like a god problem, and Moffat has been working very hard to get rid of it and hide that fact by telling cracking stories to cover up what he is doing.

Was trying to find the messianic clip of the 10th Doctor floating through the air on the strength of belief- but cant seem to find it, I did stumble on this which I had quite forgotten (blocked it from my mind possibly)- RTD didnt just make the Doctor into a God he bloody well made Rose a God too temporarily  



I am rather hoping Moffat does something to redeem all this too (as Rose is in the 50th and on the poster for the anniversary episode you can clearly see the words Bad Wolf in the background)

I like this, lets you focus on the words- the Pandorica Speech.
For me its a good speech and the very fact he is arrogant is the point- after all they dont all leave because of his thrilling speech but because they already have him in their trap and he doesnt know a thing about it- the Doctor's hubris.

Spoiler heavy dont watch if you arent right up to date- but is this what the Doctor saw in the God Complex?

Spoiler:

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Spoiler heavy dont watch if you arent right up to date- but is this what the Doctor saw in the God Complex?

This is soo creepy and sooo good!  
And this could be sooo right! 

A video that gives me goosebumps every time (dunno if it's been posted already):
(I call it) "I'm not a hero" with music from Inception:

Spoiler:

Pettytyrant101 wrote:So he is a twit when he makes a big speech but not when he is rising up to float in the air in a messianic white glow created by everyone on the planet chanting his name?
Or when he declares all of time is his to do with as he pleases?
Or when he throws people into event horizons of black holes, traps them in mirrors or freezes them in time for all eternity as a punishment?
Or when he uses just his name as a threat?

The whole Doctor acts like a God is an RTD era creation.

Why do you think in Moffat era he reset all the various invasions, the cyberking stomp over London? The Dalek invasion? The cybermen invasion? The stupid airship?

Spoiler:

River: This was exactly you. All this. All of it. You make them so afraid. When you began all those years ago, sailing off to see the Universe, did you ever think you'd become this? The man who can turn an army around at the mention of his name.

Its pretty clear to me that RTD created the whole acting like a god problem, and Moffat has been working very hard to get rid of it and hide that fact by telling cracking stories to cover up what he is doing.

Smith looks a complete twit when he does the 'god' thing, whereas Eccleston and Tennant can pull it off and look like they mean it. When River keeps droning on about him being this godlike Being it just looks silly. Tennants assistants treated him as an equal they didnt fawn over him and dribble at the mention of him like River does. Dr Who is NOT a god anyway, he is an Alien being with nine lives and a great brain, he doesnt have god powers, in most ways he is an ordinary man with an interesting past. I dislike the way Moffat seems to ram how cool and wonderful he is down our throats, RTD just got on with the adventures and the relationships.

Loved that vid Semiramis, one I hadnt seen. Very gosebumpy indeed.

"Smith looks a complete twit when he does the 'god' thing, whereas Eccleston and Tennant can pull it off"- Mrs Figg

You appear Mrs Figg to have moved from Eccy and Tennant never did this sort of thing, to Eccy and Tennant do it better than Smith!
You will forgive me therefore if I see this as just some more Smith bashing.

well lets just say I didnt find Eccky and Tennant silly when they pulled rank.

actually thinking on it I find it very unfair you accusing me of 'bashing' every time I say I dont like something. I do like Smith, I just think he isnt very convincing when he's angry, he does whimsical tweedy proff or melancholic alien very well, but not Mr Angrypants. I think Capaldi can do angry and look scary doing it.

I accused you off it because you dramatically shifted ground from Tennant never did this- then I gave you a list of examples where he does in fact do just that, and far worse than anything in 11's era regards speeches of this nature and godlike behaviour- to Tennant does it better without any acknowledgment you had even moved ground.

You have completely switched from your original position, which tends to lead me to believe that you never were complaining about the speeches or the god thing at all- just more Smith bashing.

I didn't watch the videos of Tennant and Ecc playing god because of my connection, but I'll still stand by my statement that within  series 5 and 6 as far as I've gotten (which is God Complex), the 11th Doctor strikes a sour note whenever he tries boasting, strutting and bullying.  

I'd been attributing this to the writing, and Petty, if i remember right, you made the case that this was intentionally bad because they had a higher point to make. I'm still reserving judgement on this, but from where I am right now it would be as easy to say that you're blindly defending the writing as it would be to say that Mrs Figg is blindly attacking Smith. If anything, judging just from what I've seen so far, I'd say her case is an easier one to make than yours.

But again, I reserve the right to change my mind as new evidence comes in.

Pettytyrant101 wrote:I accused you off it because you dramatically shifted ground.

I do this all the time. It's not a crime in Forumshire is it? 

Pettytyrant101 wrote:I accused you off it because you dramatically shifted ground from Tennant never did this- then I gave you a list of examples where he does in fact do just that, and far worse than anything in 11's era regards speeches of this nature and godlike behaviour- to Tennant does it better without any acknowledgment you had even moved ground.

You have completely switched from your original position, which tends to lead me to believe that you never were complaining about the speeches or the god thing at all- just more Smith bashing.

I couldnt be bothered reading the list of examples, and you sound a bit like a heckling schoolyard bully, I am not bashing anyone, you seem to be bashing me if anything.
I am explaining what I dont like and if you cant accept it thats your problem.

I am explaining what I dont like and if you cant accept it thats your problem.- Mrs Figg

That is exactly my point- you have not explained at all.
If you had said at the start said  'I dont like Smiths speeches, I thought Tennant and Eccy did all the god stuff better'- thats fine, matter of opinion.
But thats not what you said, you said Eccy and Tennant never did the speeches and God stuff at all.
When it was pointed out to you with examples that in fact the whole god speech thing was a product of RTD you shifted position to saying Smith just isnt good at it.

That is why it seems to me more like just another bash at Smith and not actually a criticism of the god like speeches at all, which was you starting position.

David H wrote:

Pettytyrant101 wrote:I accused you off it because you dramatically shifted ground.

I do this all the time. It's not a crime in Forumshire is it? 

colour me guilty  

Pettytyrant101 wrote:I am explaining what I dont like and if you cant accept it thats your problem.- Mrs Figg

That is exactly my point- you have not explained at all.
If you had said at the start said  'I dont like Smiths speeches, I thought Tennant and Eccy did all the god stuff better'- thats fine, matter of opinion.
But thats not what you said, you said Eccy and Tennant never did the speeches and God stuff at all.
When it was pointed out to you with examples that in fact the whole god speech thing was a product of RTD you shifted position to saying Smith just isnt good at it.

That is why it seems to me more like just another bash at Smith and not actually a criticism of the god like speeches at all, which was you starting position.

um bored now, its all getting a bit juvenile.

Nothing wrong with shifting ground David, but to shift ground in a debate to one thats quite the different from your original position and not acknowledge that shift in any way and to act as if the new position was always your position, not so good in a debate.
Afterall its that sort of debating that drives us all mad about politicians isnt it? (does me anyway)

Who-poo

Pettytyrant101 wrote:
Afterall its that sort of debating that drives us all mad about politicians isnt it? (does me anyway)

What drives me crazy is the politicians who are more interested in scoring debate points than fixing problems or listening to people. (I'm thinking Tea Party right now.)  They're proud of never budging an inch, of never changing their position. Compromise is an obscenity in their vocabulary.

 Just give me a good old fashioned politician who can cross party lines to compromise from time to time. He shouldn't be forced to do penance for that.

Nope but they should admit they have shifted position! Not act like it was their original position all along.
Nothing at all wrong with a politician making an honest shift of position, but it has to be an honest shift.
And few politicians do anything honestly, including shifting position.

Who-poo- Mrs Figg

This Mrs Figg is what makes you so irresistibly likable and endearing. You know how to make me crabbit, but I can never maintain it in the face of this sort of thing you know.

An excellent 9th Doctor scene, in an otherwise deeply flawed episode. That and those crazy Fjordians appear to have just elected this Slitheen as their Leader