Doctor Who [6]

It wasn't a necessary plot device in my opinion.- Amarie

So if you had felt it was more justified in the script you would accept the implication of rape in Who?

There's a lot of episodes I have missed, & I would like to see the one you just quoted about Masters Wife is it ?? Im just sticking my nose in on this topic as I read ALL posts & this one caught my "gut" rather than my eye !

The full story covers 3 episodes Azriel- Utopia, The Sound of Drums, and Last of the Time Lords.

Try this for Utopia-

http://www.free-tv-video-online.me/player/putlocker.php?id=63E770F993E498A2

you will need a good ad block probably though.

Thanks, Il do it when I get back, gotta do chores that I really cant be bothered to do !  

I think your justification for this scene is almost as unpleasant as the scene itself, first of all when I painted you into a corner about the censorship issue you immediately called my argument 'silly' that was a blatant attempt to take the attention away from the fact you had no come back. Next you pretty much denigrate the concerns of the female population of forumshire, then you accuse people of just hating Moffat, this all boils down to the fact you are pretty insensitive to womens concerns and would rather make snide comments about women and undermine their concerns and continue to defend indefensible writing rather than 'lose' an argument. Its pathalogical stubbornness, is it not possible that in this matter you are wrong?

you immediately called my argument 'silly' that was a blatant attempt to take the attention away from the fact you had no come back- Mrs Figg

No, I thought it was silly. A poor point that had no bearing on the subject at hand- an attempt to be delibrately sensational and over the top to disguise the fact you couldnt address the points I made directly- I therefore dismissed it as such. No other reason.

"you pretty much denigrate the concerns of the female population of forumshire"

Where did I do that- care to quote me?
I merely am puzzled at why this one crime is taboo when other equally or worse (in law) crimes are perfectly acceptable.

"would rather make snide comments about women "

Again, quote where I say this.

"then you accuse people of just hating Moffat"

A valid point given I mentioned an episode in which a woman is far greater denigrated over a much longer period of time onscreen, and yet has not provoked a single word of complaint or concern from you. And her abuse is psychological as well as physical and is not a mere threat but actually happens to her.
And you have often made in my view over the top complaints about Moffat Who whilst ignoring similar things in RTD's.

I have been trying to debate the point as I see it, and to understand the opposing point- your above post would seem to indicate you are more interested in making accusations against me and putting words in my mouth.

''I find it more concerning that the women here seem to consider one bad guy implying rape (a threat never actually carried out even) far, far worse than the lead character being a multiple murderer and committing genocide on several occasions'' Petty

there you go, this is your quote. Pretty patronizing words by any ones standards.
Its funny you called my point silly, thats a classic ruse men use when they feel threatened by a woman getting the better of them.

Pettytyrant101 wrote:It wasn't a necessary plot device in my opinion.- Amarie

So if you had felt it was more justified in the script you would accept the implication of rape in Who?

No. Not as long as the show claims to be a family show. I can't recall how heavily implied it was in the episode(s) of the master.
I was talking about why the dino episode was different.

And how dare you insinuate that we are not allowed to mention this scene unless we have made a huge fuss about every thing that has ever happened in the whole history of Who? First you claim that us women think rape is far worse than anything and that we think murder is fine. Then you are pissed that we don't make a louder fuss about rape than the rest of the horror in the episode? What?

I dont see what is patronizing about that Mrs Figg- its a perfectly valid question why one subject  is taboo when other equal crimes are not.
In what way is it patronising?

Sometimes Mrs Figg a spade is just a spade, and silly is just silly.

Amarie- I never said that I thought women thought rape was a worse crime than murder- I am puzzled why it is acceptable for the show to deal with crimes like murder, torture and genocide but not even allowed to mention rape.
That would sem to indicate that you do feel that rape is somehow in a different category from those other crimes.

Nor do i see why when discussing if a subject is suitable for a show or not that it is invalid to look at precedents set within the show itself, in its past and in recent years. Especially when there are far more overt examples in the show that did not so much as raise an eyebrow, yet this one line of dialogue causes this uproar.

Hey Petty, stop arguing about rape and finish my birthday NotP so I can see it before I have to leave this afternoon!

It wont be ready till this evening my time Eldo- its at the printers (and I have to go out very shortly- I am sure much to the relief of Figg and Amarie)

Depending on what time it's posted I might not get to see it until tonight, my time, cause we're heading downtown for the pre-convention festivities and then I'll be away from my computer until sometime on Sunday. But I should be able to check late tonight so I can see stuff.

It will be up by about 8pm (GMT) I reckon Eldo.

Yeah, I won't be online at that point but I'll check either check it later or I'll read it on my phone earlier.

Pettytyrant101 wrote:It wont be ready till this evening my time Eldo- its at the printers (and I have to go out very shortly- I am sure much to the relief of Figg and Amarie)

We'll be waiting.

* ominous background music with vague sounds of implied torture devices and unnecessarily complicated plot twists *

Oh! And a cliff hanger!

I'll be cackling and rubbing my hands together in a purple velvet cloak and a pointy hat.

Il be ready with my tried & tested eyebrow tweezers, sharpened for the occassion. You do know this is an argument that is never going to be resolved ? He cant see what WE see & we cant see what he see's ! Sorry Petty, but your Scottish, your heads harder & probably pickled like a walnut, There's been this debate before & no doubt it will happen again ! Ive got a very good friend that Ive known for 13yrs & if he said similar stuff Id call him a thick fucking twat ! but thats cos we're good friends  

Never going to be resolved?! I thought we'd settle this in an hour or so and then move on to solve the trouble in the middle east before dinner tomorrow.

 

 

Mmmm, ok let me try this. My points-

1. Rape as a subject matter to be alluded to should not be barred from mention in Who.

2. The show has already tackled the subject indirectly in its classic period and in Nu Who (Time Meddler/Sound of Drums to name but two examples)

3. The episode in question has one line alluding to a rape, which never takes place, that would not be taken for such by a child unless the child had prior knowledge of such things and the language used, in which case the poor kid has a lot more to worry about in their life than this episode.

4. No one here to my knowledge has complained about any of the other instances where rape or mental abuse of a woman has been alluded to in the series except this one instance. Despite the Tennant era containing at least one far more overt example- the Masters wife who is so badly abused she ends up covered in bruises with a black eye and constantly shaking and finishes up in a mental institute as a result of her treatment, and her abuse and mental collapse is played out on screen over two episodes.

5. It is apparently fine for the show to deal with murder, torture and genocide, (and wife beating it seems too) as these have provoked no outbursts of outrage from anyone here as the one line in Dino's has. But you say Who should never even hint that rape even exists in the universe as that has no 'place in a family show'.


I am not sure Azriel what about these points and observations qualifies me to be a 'thick fucking twat' or any of the other increasingly abusive in tone posts that are a response to me daring to hold a different view on this matter from the ladies of Forumshire.

Will you be alluding to rape or murder or genocide in my birthday NotP, eh?

Apologies Eldo- it is on the way but I had some family stuff came up last night and I did no tget back home till about 10pm and then had some stuff to do.

Lucy Saxon after the Master has given her an offscreen wife beating (note the black eye- the hand or whip marks on her left cheek, bruising on her arms, and its almost impossible to get a screen grab of her without her hands being blurred due them shaking so much- the Master also treats her body as if it were his, grabbing her, kissing her and discarding her as he pleases)-



The near catatonic victim of the viking rape from the Time Meddler-