Petty's Purist LotR Edits [3]

Here you go Figg, part 2-

Pettytyrant101 wrote:The problem there David is I would need more than one shot- there are just to many places in that section where he should be conspicuous- on the mountain path, stone giants scene, them being captured and led off, standing before the Great Goblin, he would be notably conspicuous by his absence.

Of course you've studied this far more than I have, and it's been a while since I watched your edit in full, but for the sake of discussion I'd argue that Gandalf's absence from those shots you name is far less conspicuous than the "How the F*** did HE get here?!?" moment when he pops up in Jackson's story with no explanation, especially if you've done a good job of putting the narrative focus back on Bilbo (as you have  ). If Gandalf can just magically fly from Rivendell into the heart of a mountain in less time than it takes to walk by simply snapping his fingers, it destroys the whole purpose of the epic journey story for me.   

I'd argue that if the viewers are engaged in the story from Bilbo's point of view, the last thing their eyes should be doing is counting dwarves and wizards on the trail or asking "Hey, where's Bombur? And where's the wizard guy?" during the stone giants scene. Remember, the original story is really no more about Gandalf than it is about Thorin, so theoretically there should be no need to insert him into every shot. He's simply assumed to be one of the company during the traveling, and lost in the confusion during the goblin capture.

It makes sense to me, at least in theory.

I will certainly give it a go- I do much that very thing regards Fili and Kili being left behind- they simply arent in mine and I just hope no one does a head count in the long shots of the dwarves ( there is a line up scene in the DOS edit at the hidden door I meant to take out as it makes their absence too obvious) so in theory I could do the same for Gandalf in the goblin section- maybe....

Third and final part-




And if anyone is interested some parts of the purist LotR's have survived all this time-

First hour of FotR book 1 (ends at the attack on Bree)-



And the first hour of FotR book 2 (ends somewhere in Moria)-



And the first hour of TT book3 (ends on the evacuation of Edoras)-



The rest of the parts have sadly been pulled- but gives a flavour of the edits at least.

Just finished watching your AUJ/DOS edit, Petty, and it took me a good 3,5 hours as I was taking notes while I watched it, so this post will be a long one. My apologies in advance for poor sentence structuring and typos, but here goes:

Before I watched it I tried to "reset" my mind and not think that I was going to watch a movie I hate. Watching your edit with this mindset is something I advise everyone here to do, because this film isn't all bad in Petty's much improved format.

I don't have much to say about what goes on between The entire Unexpected Party sequence and Rivendell. I covered some of it in previous feedback posts, but I guess it might be worth repeating how much better Thorin's entrance is in your edit and also how well the flashback after Bofur's calamity line works. I would've liked to see the troll fight shortened even more, but I guess that can't be done, and at any rate it's much better now than in Jackson's cut, so I'm happy with it the way it is.

Rivendell is greatly improved -  it's not at all painful to watch anymore, which is praise enough in itself considering what you had to work with. I think I said this the last time as well, but I’m glad you chose to include Saruman, and also that you stop the scene where you do. Now there’s nothing to give away that Saruman is breaking bad so to speak (hurr hurr),  he’s still a trusted member and leader of the white council.  There is still one thing that makes me cringe and cry inside, though, and that is Galadriel. Is it possible (and this goes for your LotR edits as well) to speed up her scenes so she doesn’t look and sound like she’s mentally challenged? I suppose there would be sound issues, but I really can’t stand the slow-mo queen.

I love how the stone giants scene turned out in your edit. It’s a small part in the book, no more than a few lines, but it's still one of my favourites. There’s something about it that reminds me of the fairy tales I used to read as a child. I like the scene a lot the way it is in your edit. I liked the giants' design and their awesome battle, but what ruined it for me was Jackson’s lack of self restraint. You’ve fixed that, and now I can enjoy one of the scenes I was looking forward to without retching. Thanks

Your version of Goblin town is brilliantly edited – quick and short drop into the goblins' hands, Gandalf steps in, works his magic (literally speaking), and out they go, just as it should be. Bilbo doesn’t fall to death and still lives to see another day, but walks about in the dark like he should, and his finding of the ring is as close to the book as it gets with what material have at your disposal. There's one thing that bothers me a little with the scene in Gollum's cave, and that is Sting fickering out when Gollum kills the goblin. I wonder, is it possible to remove the scene where Sting’s light goes out? No light but that of light bulbs go out like that. It looks like Sting’s batteries died. You might cut right to when Bilbo looks into the dark towards Gollum’s Island. Anyway, it's a minor thing that bothers me because I keep thinking of light bulbs when I see it, so if you don't care about it and removing it turns out to be a lot of work, don't bother, I'll close my eyes

I mentioned this also before in another post, but I’m very impressed with how good the scene where they get rescued by the eagles turned out. You managed to keep a lot of it, more than enough to make it a decent scene, and still cut all the crap with Thorin and Azog.

Another thing I saw differently this time around was Thorin looking at Bilbo after the eagles land them. The first time I watched your edit I thought Thorin looked a little odd looking at Bilbo the way he does when he hasn’t embraced him first. This time I thought it worked very well, because I somehow related it to Bilbo’s little speech after he appears to them having removed his ring, and I interpreted Thorin’s look at the end of AUJ as the reaction he didn’t have time for when the wolves came upon them. An Unexpected Nice Scene

Then there's the transition from AUJ to DOS - Do we need to see Smaug at the end of AUJ when, in your edit, AUJ and DOS is really just one movie? I’d rather not see him until Bilbo sees him for the first time. Also, Bree - If you’re going to keep the Bree sequence, my suggestion is to move it to the beginning of AUJ – it feels out of place when AUJ and DOS is one movie. It appears out of the blue and there’s nothing to justify it being where it is in your AUJ/DOS edit. Besides, I think it would work well as a prologue for the entire film, and it would also work well as a set-up for the Unexpected Party.  As to the scene itself – nice work! It’s not as smooth as most of the other scenes from which you have removed Jackson’s colourful additions, but that can’t be helped. I suppose. I much prefer your version.

On second thought - the scene with Smaug might be necessary if you move Bree to the beginning of AUJ, or else the jump from the Carrock to Bilbo watching Beorn the Bear will be too abrupt. Perhaps you could show the thrush knocking on the mountain, but not the dragon? Only a suggestion, of course. That goes for all of my suggestions - take them or leave them, it’s your edit and your choice what scenes you want to keep in the film and where you want to put them.

Just a small thing – I'm glad you kept Bombur’s dash, it was one of the few things I liked about DOS initially There wasn’t much you could do for Beorn, but nice work all the same. Perhaps with EE scenes he might turn out all right. Smooth editing too, I wouldn’t have known that half the scene was missing if I hadn’t watched the theatrical cut first.

When they’re at the edges of Mirkwood, Gandalf turns to Bilbo and tells him he’s changed and is not the same hobbit he was when he left the Shire. This scene bothers me a lot because it ruins what is actually a great line, but woefully misplaced by Peter Jackson. This scene, or line rather, should be in the film, but not outside Mirkwood - Gandalf isn’t supposed to say this until he and Bilbo return to the Shire and Bilbo sings his wandering song. When Jackson put the line that early in the film he robbed it of all its meaning. It should be at the end, not in the bloody middle. If there’s no special reason for keeping it, I’d suggest removing that one too.

Mirkwood itself needs darkening, like Shelob’s Lair in your book 4 edit. It looks like a place I might go to for an afternoon stroll it’s so bright. The transition from the dwarves being freed by Bilbo to being surrounded by Leggy’s crew is a bit abrupt, but still works surprisingly well. Splendid work on removing Thranduil’s little party trick as well, good riddance. Great work on the barrel escape. We’re well into DOS and still no Tauriel

Bard – is it possible to cut that little glimpse of him raising his bow? Cutting right to Balin asking for help would be ideal, but I don’t know if that’s possible. I can't remember if this was in your previous edit, but cutting from «it’s you, Bard» to «raise the gate» was brilliant! In fact, the whole Lakewood sequence is another one that works surprisingly well. It’s not as smooth as the rest, but there’s nothing to be done about that without more material. I can’t believe how you managed to take out all the bits that annoyed me - the dwarves’ illegal entry, Bard being bashed, Bard being arrested, the fights, Tauriel & Leggy showdown, dwarves stealing weapons and probably loads more I can’t remember. This is excellent, Petty. I only hope you get a scene or two extra to work with when the EE comes, but this will serve a long way.

Oddly enough, while your edit is much shorter it still feels nowhere near as rushed as Jackson’s version. All that stupid «24 hours or we won’t make it» crap got me so angry I wanted to punch the person sitting in front of me in the cinema. I felt like I was watching Jack Oakenshield Bauer taking on some grave terrorist threat, not Thorin & Co. One thing, though - I don’t know if I mentioned this before, but is it possible to remove Thorin’s utterly stupid line «you have keen eyes, master Baggins»? The stairs are so extremely visible a blind man could spot them in the dark.

This post is getting awfully lengthy, so I’ll make the end of it short – the last part is flawless in my opinion (or as close as it gets when you don’t have more material to work with). Smaug leaves when he should, no epic Star Wars II chase – perfect. I dreaded watching DOS again, but there's hope now for a watchable TH film. There's still the issue of the dwarves who were left behind in Laketown and if it will be possible to sort that out in the final edit, but that remains to be seen. I'm hopeful!

Thanks again Ringdrotten, both for taking the time and for sharing your thoughts- its much appreciated.

Ill try to address some of the things you raised.

'There is still one thing that makes me cringe and cry inside, though, and that is Galadriel. Is it possible (and this goes for your LotR edits as well) to speed up her scenes so she doesn’t look and sound like she’s mentally challenged? '


In short maybe, but I have grave doubts as it would speed up not just her speech but her movements too, but more importantly the movements of anything behind her which might look weird- but I will look into it, slo-mo Galadriel does my head in too.

"I wonder, is it possible to remove the scene where Sting’s light goes out?"

I hadn't given this bit much thought previously, but offhand I cant think of a reason to not cut it out, save that the sword would go from glowing to not without you seeing it.
Another possible alternative is still show the light going out but to lose the flicker with a bit of careful editing so it just goes dark.

Regards the Bree scene- I am somewhat loathe to put it at the start as it is TH and starting off with a scene focusing on Thorin is a bit to close to PJ's elevation of the character to main role for me.
Themain reason its still there at all is as you point out because going form the end of AUJ to the scene at the start of DOS is rather abrupt to say the least (I did try it and couldnt get it to work)- leaving Smaug out is something I intend to do in the final EE version cut- as with my LotR's edit I firmly believe when the story follow a journey the viewer shouldn't see the sights before the characters do.
Expect the transition between AUJ and DOS to undergo some future work yet.

"This scene bothers me a lot because it ruins what is actually a great line, but woefully misplaced by Peter Jackson."

I share your sentiments- reminds me of Eowyn love you line to Aragorn, which is similarly woefully misplaced to early in the narrative.
It still exists in the purist edit (minus Bilbos stupid I found my courage nonsense) purely because I felt the scene needed something further from Gandalf rather than him just saying he's leaving and riding away.

"Mirkwood itself needs darkening"

Its on my to-do list! I darkened the entire goblin town section but I want to work on a specialy mirky filter for Mirkwood- which is why it isnt done yet.

"the transition from the dwarves being freed by Bilbo to being surrounded by Leggy’s crew is a bit abrupt, but still works surprisingly well."

Too abrupt really, but I didnt have a lot to work with that wouldn't have involved stupid elf acrobatics. Twere is a line of dialogue I think where Legolas asks about the spiders and is informed they are all destroyed, I have been thinking about fitting that in somewhere there to part cover the abruptness and give the impression the rest of the elves dealt with the spiders after Bilbo tricked them all into chasing a stick  ( )

"Cutting right to Balin asking for help would be ideal, but I don’t know if that’s possible."

I think it would be too abrupt as there would be no 'introduction' shot of Bard.

"I can't remember if this was in your previous edit, but cutting from «it’s you, Bard» to «raise the gate» was brilliant!"

No it wasnt, that change was thanks to a suggestion made by someone on here- but sorry I cant actually remember who it was. But it works much better so thanks!

"is it possible to remove Thorin’s utterly stupid line «you have keen eyes, master Baggins»?"

Yes, thats actually only still in it by accident- I meant to cut it out and forgot- same goes for the shot at the door where all the dwarves line up in profile- I need to lose it so its not so obvious some are missing.

Thanks again for watching Ringdrotten.


And where are you Figg?!   

Seems like you've got it all under control! I really look forward to the first edit with scenes from all 3 EEs in it. And thank you, for sharing - if not for you I would've given up on these films in December 2013.

Im keeping hope in PJ's films alive! My life is cursed!!   

Petty carries heavy burden. Heavy, heavy burden.

I think Ringos idea for moving the Bree scenes to the beginning of AUJ is a fantastic idea, is far more logical there and Ringo is right, it seems awkward the beginning of DOS. I would put it at the bit where Thorin has walked in to Bag End and Gandalf and Thorin are talking about dragon stuff, then flashback to Bree, I would also use Smaugs eye as a flashback too when they talk about him.

good idea of Ringos to remove Gandalfs speech to Bilbo about changing, it is far far too early in the film.

also agree about darkening Mirkwood. A LOT.  I would actually make it greener too,   green is great for Mirkwood but NOT for Lothlorien.  

good ideas from Ringo.   

on a side note when you get your mits on the EE, I would include the Bilbo Elrond scene, Bilbo wandering round Rivendell, and a few extra shots of Elves at the feast. You can never have too many Elves in my opinion. I seem to remeber theres more Elven musician stuff in the EE, just cut out Kili pouting at them.  Also you may be able to salvage a bit of Elrond walking about Rivendell with Figwit, I would use that (obviously cutting all the naked Dwarve stuff) and use it to link to Bilbo and Elrond talking together on the balcony, you maybe could make it look like Elrond sees Bilbo instead of the Dwarves, you may need to cut the look of horror on Figwits face though.   

I also dont know if you can stop Galadriel sounding alarmingly like her dozy husband.  

I think I will probably just lose the Bree bit altogether.

I don't want it right at the start as Ringdrotten suggested- just feels wrong to me as the focus at the start, and I think putting it in as a flashback after Thorin's arrival would be one flashback too many in the opening sequence what with old Bilbo and the Smaug/Dale attack.
And in all honesty its a recap scene, there is not a single piece of new information or development, character or story, in it- so it doesn't really serve any purpose at the beginning.

I will use some of the footage from the EE- I will probably keep the Bilbo/Elrond scene, half hearted as it is, and I may keep him seeing the shards of Narsil but not the rest of that scene with the painting and the ominous Ring close up ect.   

As far as I remember the only elven musicians I cut out are the bit where Oin (I think) doesnt like it and stupidly sticks cloth in his ear trumpet. 

I wish I could redo Galadriels whole performance- they get a good actress in to do the job and then tell her to talk and move like she is stuck in treacle.   


But thanks for watching Figg- glad you got to see them and hopefully they are better than what you walked out on in the cinema.

I would be very interested to hear your thought son the LotR's edit- the first hour is above- being a fan of the originals as you are I am curious to see how you react to them.

I think LOTR is perfect as it is. It wouldnt give me any more pleasure to see it edited as I personally would have only changed about 5 minutes of the Whole 9 hours.   

But The Hobbit is dramatically improved,   

Its a pity the material you have to work with is so shitty.   

How do you know if you dont try it?- I assume when you saw them at the cinema you thought they were pretty perfect then, but that didn't stop you watching stuff in the EE's.
Just think of it as an alternative EE.

And the sort of editing I have done in the LotR's is the same as in TH- reordering the story line to be more like the books and removing PJ's excesses and self indulgences.

Eldo you are anther one I have been waiting years to hear your opinion on the purist edit- any chance you will finally give them a go?

for you its PJ self indulgence, for me its PJ brilliance. So its pointless, I like LOTR exactly the way it is.   

I really wish I could watch these Petty, but I can only watch a max of 40-80 minutes of video per data package I buy, unfortunately it would cost me a heck of alot to see your efforts in the flesh al the way though

To be blunt I'm not sure I could stand sitting through the films in an edited form anyway, it would only remind me how badly Jackson went wrong...

I have heard enough by now to know it's great, I just hope I'll be able to watch them...someday...

I think I understand why you're hesitant to watch Petty's edit, Mrs Figg, and you may be right.  

Petty has done a truly amazing job of centering the story on Frodo's quest, while Jackson's story jumps all over the place.  To me this Petty's edit is a much more energetic way of telling the story. The narrative grabs me and carries me along without letting go in a way that Jackson's never will.

But Jackson did what he did for a reason. He wanted to insert giant emotional buttons at key places throughout the movie and hit them often, so that the audience was always emotionally engaged, even while their logical mind was screaming "NO!"  When Petty edits out those emotional buttons for the sake of a tight, consistent story there are definitely things that are lost in the trade.  

For me, a good example is the warg attack in TT.  It makes no logical sense there. It breaks up the story. Appearing to  kill Aragorn by throwing him off a cliff and then focusing in on the anguished faces is the oldest cheese on the shelf. It's only purpose is to make the audience gasp and sob in the most manipulative way. BUT....the scene that follows with Brego nuzzling him and helping his injured master mount gets me every time! {{    }}  When I watch Petty's edit, as much better as the central story is (and it's miles better ) I still hear a little voice  inside me that says,  "But wait..the horse...you forgot the horse! " 

So yes, there is something gained, but also something lost.  Where the balance is between good narrative and broad emotional sweep is probably a personal thing.

Well it is personal taste. Every time I watch LOTR I fall in love with it again. I dont have any problems with the things you mention. I love it as it is. Thats why I dont need to see an edit, because I like the way PJ filmed it. I am not hesitant, I dont see the point.
Edits are for people who are not satisfied with the original, I am not satisfied with the Hobbit therefore a drastic edit is very welcome in that case.

malickfan wrote:I really wish I could watch these Petty, but I can only watch a max of 40-80 minutes of video per data package I buy, unfortunately it would cost me a heck of alot to see your efforts in the flesh al the way though

To be blunt I'm not sure I could stand sitting through the films in an edited form anyway, it would only remind me how badly Jackson went wrong...

I have heard enough by now to know it's great, I just hope I'll be able to watch them...someday...

If you do decide you'd like to watch the edit Malick, I highly recommend sending Petty a flashdrive and having him load the file directly and mail it back to you. The story is actually quite watchable, even for a purist. And more than that, it's enjoyable! Especially if you can find a way to plug it in to a big screen. Jackson and Petty make a good team. Jackson does some amazing visuals, and Petty weaves them together into a tight narrative.

Jackson and Petty make a good team.- David


  There's a sentence I never thought I would read!


Malick, as Dave says if you want you can always send me a flash drive and I can put them on that for you if its the only way you can watch them.
But the drive needs to be quite large as they are full HD so all together its 35gig.

Pettytyrant101 wrote: Jackson and Petty make a good team.- David


  There's a sentence I never thought I would read!


Malick, as Dave says if you want you can always send me a flash drive and I can put them on that for you if its the only way you can watch them.
But the drive needs to be quite large as they are full HD so all together its 35gig.

I may take you up on that offer somewhen, very nice to offer.

"We are the Dwarves of Erebor".....................& we are the same size & height as everyone here. 

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Eldo you are anther one I have been waiting years to hear your opinion on the purist edit- any chance you will finally give them a go?

Honestly, it's been years since I even watched the official cuts, and while I've recently wanted to see those again too, I haven't gotten around to it. When I was living on campus I was even more wary of the legality of downloads, too.

Jackson and Petty make a good team. That I would pay cash money to watch.   

very nice to offer - Malick

No problem Malick, Dave already gets the edits this way (talking of which Dave must be about due time again!) sending out another one is not any hassle.

"When I was living on campus I was even more wary of the legality of downloads, too."- Eldo

Fair enough, though you know fan edits are a bit of a grey area and if there was nay law breaking Im pretty sure its my head on the block.
But you need not fret anyway- the first hour of FotR is on dailymotion and linked to above- no crime, no harm, no foul (not for you watching it anyway) and if you are watching its worth my time reuploading the other parts to DM too.

I've watched a bunch of the stuff you've put on YouTube and Dailymotion, but I don't think I've seen the full first hour of FOTR before. That might be interesting since it's the portion of the trilogy I've seen the most and the last time I tried watching the movies I found that I was saying every line of dialogue in my head before they even happened. I wonder if the changes would jump out at me significantly or if it would flow well.