Petty's Purist LotR Edits [3]

Downloading right now. Plan to watch it tonight.

Its strange to think that Petty's edit of The Hobbit is probably the closest thing anyone of our generation is going to get to watching a faithful version. With all the crap edited out it may just be savable. But its unfortunate there is so much of the story missing. maybe there will be outtakes and cut footage to be found later on.

Did you get it downloaded ok Bungo?

  I dont know why I bother complimenting you.

I thought you were just musing, speculating Mrs Figg, as I didn't think you had watched them.  

I havent watched them but I imagine its true unless you have turned Mirkwood pink instead of green or something?   

No, but I do plan in a later edit on making it, well mirkier. Like all PJ's 'dark scenes' you can see ever detail on everything for about a mile all round   

And now you've got a new computer get watching!   

Anyone had a chance to watch the DOS edit yet?

I did watch it the other night. I will try to organize my thoughts and post them here.

But a question before I do. Did you change anything with AUJ? I noticed that my big suggestions were not changed (cutting straight from "Home is behind..." to Trollshaws, cutting Elrond's militaristic entrance, and cutting out the stone giants entirely).

Mrs Figg wrote:  I dont know why I bother complimenting you.

  

I really want to watch the edits, but I almost want to wait until the third one is done so I can see the story all at once as is proper.

No, I didnt touch AUJ at all Bungo, as a rough template for when I put together the final cut from the three EE's it will do as  a placeholder for now, as its not far off.
So dont worry your suggestions are not ignored! What I did with suggestions for the LotR's edit was just try them out and then watch it back and see if I thought it worked, sometimes I dont think it does work or its just not possible to do, but quite a few times suggestions I hadn't thought of when tried worked much better, and so were kept.
I'll do the same again and just try out lots of peoples suggestions out for TH. (assuming I get a lot of suggestions of course).


RA I get where you are coming from, but seeing PJ's already it cant really ruin anything, or make it any worse than it already is.

Forgive my memory Petty, but had you cut Bilbo's attempt to leave the company in the Misty Mountains and then put it back? I don't remember it when I watched the edit before.

Thoughts on the DOS edit:

Bree
-No PJ!
-No thugs, no mention of "dark" minds turning towards Erebor.
-Not sure how I feel about the Arkenstone still being a MacGuffin. Might be an unavoidable PJ alteration.
-I was thinking about how this scene might feel somewhere in the beginning of AUJ, but in thinking about it more I don't think it would work.

Wilderland
-Glad you cut the dwarves fumbling with the door. It was like PJ ran out of heroic things for Thorin to do, so he had him open a door. Also Dori's ugly mug was way too close to the camera for my comfort. I just wanted to punch him in the face.  
-Also no Beorn getting wedged in the door. These are all positive changes.
-I like that you cut Dori's dialogue. I would suggest cutting Gandalf's "...I hope."

Queer Lodgings
-It's amazing how not cutting to Azog/Bolg/Necro/Dol Guldur really helps to streamline the story, make it feel smooth and coherent. I remember being in the theater seeing DOS and thinking, okay so PJ made the Necro all mysterious in AUJ and he had one word of dialgoue, but now he's basically playing all the chips at once?
-The cuts in Beorn's dialogue are pretty good. Now only if you could change the way he looks and his stupid voice. Sounds like he smoked too many Marlboro's!

Mirkwood
-I liked how you changed the interaction between Bilbo and Gandalf. No emphasis on the ring.
-I would love it if you could find a way to take Legolas out all together.

I'm kinda losing steam at the moment, so I'll finish my comments later.

Thanks for watching and commenting Bungo.
Bree- I left PJ's cameos in the LotR's- dont want to be too petty a tyrant on these matters- but this one is way to obtrusive and all but comes with a wink at the camera.

Wilderland- Yeah the idea that all these dwarven artisans are all stumped save Thorin by the complexity of a simple door latch was just one of the worst examples of PJ trying to artificially heighten tension with fake drama, as was the whole Beorn trying to get through the door- and I wanteed to try to preserve some mystery around Beorn -besides they dont unlock the door and its barred form the inside, yet Beorn just strolls in come morning.   

I hummed and hawed about what to do about the Arkenstone, the main reason for leaving it in was the emphasis put on it when they get to the mountain. In the rough cut I had taken all mention of it out- so it was, as in the book, just something BIlbo saw and stole while in there- but this meant losing a lot of stuff that made that section too choppy when watching.
So unless I can think of another way round it I fear it there to stay- although I did get rid of the line where Thorin says the dwarves will only follow whoever has the stone to make it a little more palatable.

I had thought of removing Gandalfs, "I hope", as its pretty damn corny and one of those lines a 'humorous' ending to is signposted from the preceding sentence. The main reason its still there is purely for the smoothness of transition to the next scene, but I may well work on that to get rid of that line.
I have removed most, if not all, the reusing, nods to, LotR's dialogue.

Queer Lodgings- Yeah it does demonstrate how misplaced the notion was that the story needs driven along by a constant threat and pursuit, it only distracts and defocuses the main story and the significance of Bilbo.

Mirkwood- Anything to lose that clumsy 'my courage' nonsense, and I much prefer that Gandalf just tells Bilbo he has changed, but in this edit Bilbo doesn't realise it yet, but he is about to realise how much he has changed when he uses Sting for the first time against the spiders.
I dont think I can take Legolas out all together, as the scene where they are captured would be almost impossible with him gone entirely- but I did reduce his role to about three lines of dialogue I think, best I could do- no Tauriel though, got to be happy for small mercies.


Thanks again for sharing your thoughts Bungo, I look forward to hearing the rest when you have the time.

Unfortunately I thought Tauriel/Lily turned out to be the only vaguely interesting character, apart from the horrible dialogue of course. I mean whats remotely interesting about Bilbo the way these films portray him?   

Bilbo is better just by being the focus of the story, and my version is edited so that his story arc at least more closely resembles that of the book, and that strengthens it as it puts the emphasis back in the right place in the flow of the story, where Tolkien had it.
Although the scene that needs fixing in AUJ the most is the end of the troll scene, as in PJ's Bilbo does way to much, is way to cocky and sure of himself when dealing with trolls way to early on his development.

I know they wanted to avoid a Gandalf pops up and saves the day moment, but if they had looked closer they might have seen how Tolkien is using that to demonstrate Bilbo's growth.

Gandalf saves them from the trolls- neither Bilbo or Thorin is any use.

Goblins, Gandalf rescues them again, but not Bilbo who gets left behind and has his first adventure on his own where he overcomes his fear.

After that Bilbo has the strengths he needs to face up to the spiders and to rescue the dwarves, and goes on to become the defacto leader of the group that the other dwarves turn to.

Also as another general observation of something they missed and should have taken advantage of, even though Tolkien could not have meant it this way when he wrote it- they should have left in the eagles helping out because Gandalf helped their Wind Lord out, as Gandalf had pity for its suffering.
It nicely echoes what has just preceded with Bilbo sparing Gollum, and echoes to the future and how that pity is the final reason for the destruction of the Ring.

Instead they thought it better to follow the scene about pity with Bilbo earning everyone's respect and becoming their best chum, even Thorins, through killing shit.   

that whole Eagles section was a huge missed opportunity. I loved the scenes with them flying but it was over too soon and before that they just pop out of nowhere with no explanation apart from the dratted Moth from LOTR. Afterwards they just disappear poof with no explanation. This misses out a wonderful scene with Bilbo dangling from one of the Dwarves foot, and the eyrie Cliff top.

So downloaded it and it seems to be working fine.   I'll have to see when I'll get around to watching it though.

Took a quick look at the Bree sceene, and like the changes. Though I would say, as Bungo, that I think I would prefer if the whole Arkenstone nonsense was left out.   That's movie unseen though.

Yes, the problem with losing the Arkenstone stuff entirely is the amount that then has to be lost when they get to the mountain.
Also if I lose the arkenstone stuff I lose the Bree stuff too as there is no other point to the Bree scene and I would not have the transition line "Thats why we need a burglar" to cut to Bilbo- and I dont have another option for a linking scene between the end of AUJ on the Carrock and the start of DOS approaching Beorns.

Leaving some element of the arkenstone change in the film therefore may have to be a necessary evil.
Unless anyone can come up with some bright ideas on the matter of course.

Ah, I see. Yes, something to ponder.   

Tolkien managed to write it fine without any Arkenstone involvement.

Why not repost it one more time for those who hasn't read Tolkiens original version of that scene.   

"Master Gandalf, I know you only by sight, but now I should be glad to speak with you. For you have often come into my thoughts of late, as if I was bidden to seek you. Indeed I should have done so, if I had known where to find you."

Gandalf looked at him with wonder. "That is strange Thorin Oakenshield," he said. "For I have thought of you also; and though I am on my way to the Shire it was in my mind that is the way also to your halls."

"Call them so, if you will," said Thorin. "They are only poor lodgings in exile. But you would be welcome there, if you would come. For they say you are wise and know more than any other of what goes on in the world; and I have much on my mind and would be glad of your councel."

"I will come," said Gandalf; "for I guess that we share one trouble at least. The Dragon of Erebor is on my mind, and I do not think he will be forgotten by the grandson of Thrór."

New computer arrived by mail today, and it's up and running, so will get to downloading your latest edit soon now, Petty

 

Download successful! Won't be able to watch it tonight, but will post a summary of my thoughts when I've watched it

where is Petty anyway?

wheres Petty?   

and where's Orwell?