Re: The Desolation of Smaug pre-release thread [SPOILERS]

[halfwise]

Hey MF (um, okay that's maybe an unfortunate contraction I'll avoid in the future), your views on the films and books are fairly widely shared here, though I think you've brought added clarity to the topic with a minimum of vitriol. Nice to see. (Though I would have called it 'Legolas the surf dude').

Since I didn't grow up reading Harry Potter I maybe didn't have as strong reactions as others, but I thought the first movie was the best. Nobody seems to agree with me. Anyway, there is a Harry Potter thread floating around. Might be ripe for resurrection. Worth reading to avoid covering old ground again.

[Eldorion]

I was very pleasantly surprised by Deathly Hallows Part 1 when I saw it in theatres because it was the first time I'd walked out of a HP film fully satisfied with the film, although that was in large part due to my expectations bottoming out after being disappointed by Half-Blood Prince. When I saw PoA for the first time I disliked some of the changes but liked a lot of other stuff, and rewatching the film in subsequent years my appreciation for it has only increased as I've learned more about film as an art form and gained a greater appreciation for Alfonso Cuaron's work. I've found myself enjoying a couple other HP films more as well, even HBP, which I think is pretty good for what it's trying to be, though I wish they hadn't decided to emphasize the teen romance subplot so much. (I still think that was done in reaction to Twilight.)

Looking back on the complete series, I still can't rank them all (yet), but I think DH1 is probably my second or third favorite after PoA and maybe GoF. I enjoyed DH2 quite a bit as well, but looking back on it now it feels a bit hollow. I'm not sure how to avoid that when you decide to adapt just the last dozen chapters of a book and the whole film is a climax.

[Ringdrotten]

The first film is recognisable as an adaptation of the books, and feels more magical than the rest, and generally conveys the light tone of the first book very well. Of course the books grow darker with every part, and therefore the films have to do that too, but for me they didn't work at all. It's a shame really, I would have loved nothing more than to have eight Harry Potter films I could enjoy

[Eldorion]

Since I didn't grow up reading Harry Potter I maybe didn't have as strong reactions as others, but I thought the first movie was the best.  Nobody seems to agree with me.

Actually, your arguments in favor of the first two HP movies are a big part of the reason why I want to rewatch them.  I'm wondering if maybe I've let myself get swept along by the crowd a bit on them.  I've certainly never shared the vitriol some seem to have for the first two.

Anyway, there is a Harry Potter thread floating around.  Might be ripe for resurrection.  Worth reading to avoid covering old ground again.

Good point, though I think it can sometimes be nice to go over old ground with a fresh set of eyes to get new perspectives on it.

[Ringdrotten]

 I enjoyed DH2 quite a bit as well, but looking back on it now it feels a bit hollow.  I'm not sure how to avoid that when you decide to adapt just the last dozen chapters of a book and the whole film is a climax.

It's probably not the best stand-alone film I've seen, but if watched immediately after DH1 it just feels like one long movie, and a good one

[Eldorion]

@Ringo: yeah, one thing that stood out to me when I rewatched the first film (followed by the subsequent six as part of a week-long marathon in preparation for the premiere of DH2) was how many moments still evoked a sense of wonder and magic in me. Harry's first trip to Diagon Alley, the first glimpse of Hogwarts, and the first Quidditch game are all stand out moments to me more than a decade later. I don't know how much of it is childhood nostalgia, but the first film has so many fantastic moments.

It also has probably the most Dursleys scenes, and Richard Griffiths (RIP) and Fiona Shaw both did fantastic and unfortunately underrated jobs there.

[Eldorion]

It's probably not the best stand-alone film I've seen, but if watched immediately after DH1 it just feels like one long movie, and a good one

I still have not gotten around to watching both parts of DH back-to-back. Hopefully I will soon.

[Ringdrotten]

" I don't know how much of it is childhood nostalgia" - Eldo

I'm not quite sure myself, but if it's only nostalgia, I won't let that keep me from enjoying one of the few HP films I like And speaking of the Dursleys, I think you mentioned once that you were disappointed they didn't include Dudley's cup of tea and farewell in DH1 - I agree very much, that was a very nice way to "end" things with the Dursleys.

[Ringdrotten]

I still have not gotten around to watching both parts of DH back-to-back.  Hopefully I will soon.

You can look forward to it

[Eldorion]

Oh yeah, definitely, whether it's nostalgia or not doesn't stop HP from being a great experience for me.  I sometimes wonder the same thing about the books, which I love with far fewer reservations than the films.  Reading them takes me way back, but they're good enough that I think I'd enjoy the books even if I hadn't grown up with them.

I think the Dursley's departure was a really important part of the Deathly Hallows the book.  For as few pages as they got throughout the series, the Dursleys cast a long shadow over Harry's story and not including the resolution of their story feels sort of like not including Saruman's death scene in Return of the King. They did film the Dursleys' departure scene, and someone on YouTube edited together the various clips that have been released:



NB I'm not normally one much for fan edits, but I enjoyed the version above way more than the original version of the deleted scene on the standard DH1 DVD.

[Mrs Figg]

  hi Malickfan, great to see you, poor old Bree is drownded  


@Halfy I agree with you, the first HP film was the best.

Yates  

[Pettytyrant101]

Harry bloody Potter and the Magpie Collection of Plagiarised Classic Children's Stories?   Bugger it, I missed the PJ bashing!  

[Mrs Figg]

  bloody philistine

[Sinister71]

Yeah I guess I could just remove Hobbit from the title 'The Desolation' then it's not so bad, it's odd as a kid I was a massive fan of the Harry Potter books (still are he he) but my two favorite films in the series The Prisoner of Azkaban and The Half Blood Prince were probably the least faithful in the series-loads changed and missed out, but to me were great films that felt like the book.

Then again I wasn't a sarcastic git back then...

My thing with the Potter films and why they don't bother me with all their deviations is the fact that the author of the books sanctioned every single change. If she didn't like it it didn't happen. I read several articles and things where the writers wanted to try this or that and Rowlings vetoed the idea and they wrote something else that she ultimately approved. I can live with that because they were HER stories and she authorized the changes that showed up on screen. Just like Game Of Thrones, the author is helping the writing team and if he doesn't approve it it don't happen... THAT I can respect. But what Jackson is doing completely rewriting the book in the image he wants to see and then lying to the public and himself claiming to be adapting it... What a load of crap.    

ok after letting my blood cool down  
Rowlings had the right idea though her licensing to WB was for a one time deal, after the films were made there will be no remakes, no spin offs, just the Harry Potter films that were sanctioned by her and she was involved in. She was also involved in the writing process as well as producing the last 2 films. So any changes to the films was acceptable IMO.

As far as I know Jackson did go to the Tolkien estate near the beginning of preproduction but the Tolkien estate from my understanding wanted nothing to do with them. probably because Jackson and Boyens and Walsh already had a script draft written and the estate didn't like their treatment of Tolkien's material. Other than Royd Tolkien JRR Tolkien's great grandson all the other Tolkien's do NOT approve of Jackson's treatment. It seems BOTH parties The Tolkien estate and Jackson were too stubborn to work together, to give us the best middle earth possible.

I felt Jackson did a good job with LOTR, he was after all under a microscope with every Tolkien scholar and geek watching closely. And OVERALL I think he did the source material justice with a few missteps along the way but overall I think he got the changes and atmosphere pretty close to the books. THEN COMES THE HOBBIT.... Jackson IMO has show total disregard for the source material going so far as to incorporate characters long dead in Tolkien's work, rewrite complete sections of canon into fan fiction, make IMO ridiculous changes to characters, use scenes from the book in misleading ways taking the nature of these scenes out of context. All things I know many of you have heard me say time and time again So I'll stop there with that thought.

[Pettytyrant101]

he was after all under a microscope with every Tolkien scholar and geek watching closely- Sinister

I must have got one of those electron microscopes - because compared to the source material they had to draw on those films sucked the only place it mattered the most- the script.

[Sinister71]

he was after all under a microscope with every Tolkien scholar and geek watching closely- Sinister

I must have got one of those electron microscopes - because compared to the source material they had to draw on those films sucked the only place it mattered the most- the script.

But overall they succeeded, getting the tone for the most part right. Perfect in comparison to the Hobbit IMO. But I was much more laid back with LOTR since the hobbit was the story I preferred out of the two. I love LOTR but the Hobbit I have that special place for since it was my first real book I ever read, which was a direct result of the 77 cartoon. Both of which I realize aren't perfect but they are to me well in a way anyways. And now with Jackson's version of the Hobbit the 77 cartoon looks like its Osccar worthy material very true to the story Tolkien wrote. I may have left a few things out but it was still the story about bilbo and HIS journey there and back again.

[CC12 35]

my fave hp film is the 1 where Harry gets in trouble

[Sinister71]

my fave hp film is the 1 where Harry gets in trouble

That happened in the films?  

[malickfan]

On the subject of Harry Potter is anyone else aware of the Ninth film apparently currently in production?-Seriously! apparently some guy is working on a feature length behind the scenes documentary about the series exploring until stories from the crew, and abandoned or alternate scripts and scenes from the films:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpNS2K5GPw0

(I have seen info about this at various places round the Internet and it actually seems legit)

There is also the following that should interest fans of the series-UNRELEASED deleted scenes from the series-photos and extracts from scenes shot for the film, that never made it into the final cut AND weren't even released as special features content on Home Video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDir4QFhjpI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_791145&feature=iv&src_vid=v4IyEw1LWoo&v=f9mUJTmFuZg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSO6dQClEYs

I also posted this over at the barrowdowns forum-contains more links to HP deleted scenes (they may be duplicate links I haven't checked) AND...UNRELEASED deleted scenes for the LOTR Trilogy!

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?p=683300

Hope that interests you guys.

If you add all the released deleted scenes and the ones cited above it's pretty obvious Warner Bros has more than enough footage for extended versions of the films (I know for a fact Order of the Phoneix's rough cut was a whole hour longer)

[RA]

I think Bree is back.

[Pettytyrant101]

It is indeed.  Although having found us I do hope some of the Breelanders continue to visit.

[malickfan]

Hmm. The discussions about Cheese, Doctor Who, and the nice font used here are defintely factors in me staying.

Can I be a breelander and Forumshirer?

[malickfan]

And sorry Figg's but I'll take Yates dark style and cinematography over Columbus's copy and paste bland direction, the first two films look a bit dated if you ask me, and wern't so much films as copy and pasting the book in the least dramtic and cost effective way they could, the terrilbe acting from the kids and the cheap shot on video look of the thing didn't help.

Love John William's score though, and they are fun flicks, but in my eyes the worse films of the series.

[Ringdrotten]

There are some scenes in that deleted scenes clip (lotr) you posted that I wish they had made available so you could've fitted them into your edits, Petty. More elves in rivendell, some of Gimli and Legolas' travels after the war.

"I know for a fact Order of the Phoneix's rough cut was a whole hour longer" - Malick

That explains a lot!

[RA]

Can I be a breelander and Forumshirer?

I am