Re: Countdown to Release [2] SPOILER THREAD

[Pettytyrant101]

Well it was a lot more like Norc basically.
There was anticipation and there was excitment and there was speculation and worries. But this timeout it feels, awkward somehow, less genuine.
I think it statred with comic-con and the bad press about the 48fps- since then there has been a sense of the production being very defensive, closing ranks. The opposite of how they were acting in the lead up to FotR.

Sorry if thats a bit vague, mood is hard thing to put into words.

[Eldorion]

I think I get what you mean.

I've noticed this not just on Tolkien sites, but there seems to be an underlying worry that this isn't going to live up to the LOTR movies. I'm sure people in 2001 were afraid that the movies wouldn't do the books justice, but I'm not sure TH movies have the same feeling of grandness that LOTR did. We've discussed the problems with adapting TH and LOTR in reverse order before. The stakes just aren't the same.

Don't get me wrong though, I'm still really looking forward to this.

[Norc]

no, I understand. I hope it turns though.

[Pettytyrant101]

I agree Eldo about a sense of it not going to live up to LotR's- much as I hate it to be true, it seems enough people did enjoy them despite my own feelings on all their problems, and they may just be adding an extra burden of expectation to the current mood.

And of course you never know when there might be an element of politics invovled. PJ is a very big fish in NZ- he may have ruffled some feathers, who knows? Perhaps in the words of Saruman he has been wanting a 'pair of boots many times to big for himself'!

[azriel]

As they say "Bad publicity is better than no publicity!" All this trepidation will still draw the crowds, its the result that interests me. Will PJ come out on top ? still be revered as an Ambassador for NZ ? or will there be red faces all round ? But I think this section of time will be food for discussion for quite a while,whether its for good or bad.

[Mrs Figg]

Interview with Royd Tolkien. digitalspy.

When did you first get wind of Lord of the Rings being adapted as a live-action film?
It was a very long development process…
"It was years before they filmed. I'd known Peter Jackson because I'd been a fan of his from Bad Taste and Braindead, from when I was younger. But I really had no involvement in the films at that stage - my first connection with them was at the first premiere in London, for The Fellowship [of the Ring]. That's where I met Peter and other people from New Line."

There was some surprise when Peter was announced as director, because he was known for a very particular type of genre film. What do you think it is that makes him such a good fit for the material?
"I think it's not just about Peter, I think it's the whole situation that's evolved with where Peter is in New Zealand, and the New Zealanders as people, their can-do attitude. You know, Richard Taylor for example, and how his company Weta has evolved over the years, and grown with the industry.

"Peter's there at the front leading the charge, the captain of the ship, and all these people are working, and they all have that same passion that Peter has, and I think it would have probably been an entirely different film if it was a film in Hollywood. And actually New Zealand as a country has become a character within the film as well, and things like that you can't get from anywhere else."

What's your memory of the small part you filmed in Return of the King?
"It was one of the best experiences ever. I'd met people through the different premieres, but I didn't ask to go to New Zealand because even though I'm related to Tolkien, I don't expect any special treatment. But then I kept seeing reports that filming was coming to an end and I just thought, 'If I don't ask, I'll never know.' So I sent an e-mail, and within a couple of weeks I was in New Zealand, and again, I just thought I might get five minutes on set because it's so busy.

"But I literally turned up there, and Christopher Lee wanted to have a cup of tea with me on the first night, before he left to film Star Wars in Australia. He'd met Tolkien years before. So I went from not expecting anything at all to drinking tea with Christopher Lee, literally within hours of arriving in New Zealand. It was bizarre. And the next morning I got down to the set to film my part, and the place was just full of people dressed as orcs, and Gondorian rangers and knights, and there were horses everywhere. Incredible."

Were you, or anyone else in the family, worried about how much was going to be cut from the books, and how much would be changed for the screen?
"It is difficult, because of course things need to be adapted to fit that style. Everyone has their own view and opinions on the book, and it's very difficult, because you've got to change certain things to make it filmic, and make it flow properly, and make it land with an audience.

"I always try and keep myself completely separated from the books and the film. I'm watching the films for what they are, and what Peter Jackson and Weta and all the cast and crew have done with them. Then again with The Hobbit, I don't know what changes there are going to be to make it 3D. But for me it's just another reason to go to the cinema another three times, and be completely taken away and lost within the world."

The rumour is that the writers are going to use material from the Lord of the Rings appendices to expand The Hobbit…"I believe that's the case, yes, they're expanding the book from the appendices. But they're going to be brilliant no matter what – they will be fantastic. I know from what I saw briefly over in New Zealand just how dedicated and enthusiastic everybody is, and how seriously they take their craft. It's bound to be a good thing."

If you had to choose the best moment from the Lord of the Rings films - maybe one that really captured the spirit of the books - which would you pick?
"My bit. None of the rest, it was all about me! Oh gosh, it's difficult because there was a magic to me for The Fellowship of the Ring, because it was the first film, and I avoided reading anything about it in advance because I wanted to go into that cinema with fresh eyes and see if it captured me, and it did.

But then, Return of the King was equally magical for me because I'm in it, and I'd had the experience of knowing these people over the years. But yes, if I had to pinpoint something, I'd say the best bit in all three films is my bit. I think the way I hand spears out is just… nobody else could have done such a brilliant job. I could give talks on that in drama schools."


He seems happy enough, and if its good enough for the great grandson of Tolkien its good enough for me.

[Pettytyrant101]

Easy enough to pick and choose Tolkiens Mrs Figg.
By that measure I could say if PJ's films are an insult for CT then thats good enough for me- but in fact I had come to my conclusions on that already after watching them without ever knowing what any of the Tolkien family thought of them, good or bad. The same will be true for me of TH.

[RA]

And as you said earlier Eldo the Tolkien Estate has begun legal proceddings against them over the merchandising clause of the original contract.

This might not actually be a bad thing. If Warner Brothers loses the legal rights to non-tangible digital media, they can't harm Merp anymore. This is more leveled at Warner Brothers than the Hobbit anyways.
Apparently Warner Brothers never had the rights in the original License agreement to issue a Cease and Desist; Turbine does. Their Cease and Desist letter is technically void right now. At least, according to the Merp team.

[Eldorion]

Reminder ... SPOILERS follow.










Cool?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/film/7985801/Sir-Ian-on-Gandalfs-return

Ian McKellen discusses the prospect of having a younger Bilbo in the films, though it's not confirmed that it will be in the theatrical release of the film (possibly being saved for the EE).

Sir Ian says during the film's development has been forthcoming with Jackson and his co-writers Fran Walsh and Philippa Boyens. For one, he felt that the relationship between Gandalf and Bilbo needed a little history.

He suggested a scene showing the wizard being introduced to a baby Bilbo and his mother Belladonna Took and it was shot. He's not sure if the scene will make the final cut of The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey, but his suggestion was taken seriously.

''We see Gandalf observing this little boy who's full of beans and full of adventure. And I let him play with [a] toy dragon that I've got.

''And when he's thinking, 'Who should we get? Oh, there's that little boy'. And he goes back to Hobbiton to meet this little boy who's now grown up and is a real stodgy, dull, settled, unadventurous person. And he's so disappointed. 'What happened to you? Come on! You've got to go on an adventure, it'll be good for you. Get back your childish enthusiasm!'''

[Pettytyrant101]

Hopefully good news on the licensing front then.

On the young Bilbo thing I had already expected a scene at one of the old Tooks birthdays so the only thing I am suprised at here is that it took an actor to suggest it.

Dont think it is necessary as such but if done well it shouldnt be a problem either- less keen on the toy dragon- seems a bit heavy handed in the foreshadowing department.

[Pettytyrant101]

The banned journalist has been unbanned!
Seemingly by WingNut - guess they could see a disatrous PR move when it was staring them in the face.

'Wingnut Films says it will return the accreditation of a Radio New Zealand journalist for the premiere of the Hobbit movie next week.
Cushla Norman was informed on Wednesday by a publicist with Roadshow Film Distributors that her accreditation had been revoked because she had done too many negative stories.
Wingnut Films now says Ms Norman's acreditation for the red carpet event next week should never have been revoked and it will be returned.
A spokesperson said Wingnut does not have any form of media blacklist.- -Radio NZ

edt add- that last line is more lawyer speak- Wingnut might not have but you can bet your arse WB do!

You know I suspect a lot of the ill feeling that seems to be around in NZ towards TH is a consequence of WB being in charge.
I bet there are days PJ wishes it was just him, a couple of cameras and some enthusiastic mates again.

[Mrs Figg]

Yes he is probably sick and tired of being insulted and critisized every 5 minutes.

[RA]

Gotta save Merp
Merp is the game for me
Don't care what you say
I'll play all day

And when Warner comes knockin'
I'm gonna say
"Go get em Chris!"

Haters gonna hate,"Derp"
They're gonna go mockin'
Me? Ignorance is bliss

And when Warner comes knockin'
I'm gonna say
" Go get em, Chris"......

[Eldorion]

Good on WingNut for returning her accreditation.

I do sometimes wonder if PJ (or other directors who start off independent before achieving massive blockbuster success) want to return to their smaller-budget roots. I certainly wouldn't blame PJ if he wanted to do that. On the other hand, he might have tried to do so with The Lovely Bones, and look how that turned out.

For what it's worth, the only future film other than The Hobbit that PJ is signed on to direct is the Tintin sequel, which will be a pretty large-budget affair.

[David H]

And I let him play with [a] toy dragon that I've got.

Didn't we see a cart with toy dragons in one of the pictures of Dale? Interesting.....

[Pettytyrant101]

Yes he is probably sick and tired of being insulted and critisized every 5 minutes.- Mrs Figg

As my ole Paw used to tell me, "If yi git in bed wi' the devil laddie dinae act all suprised whin yi git brutally f***ed."

(This also holds true for Liberal-democracts with Tories amongst other things)

[Eldorion]

TheOneRing.net has an interesting editorial that provides a lot of analysis about what the structure of the three films might be like. The section for the first film is largely based on the soundtrack listing so it's nothing too new, but there's some interesting speculation there. Since it's so long though I want to focus just on the opening and closing remarks about the trilogy's structure.

http://www.theonering.net/torwp/2012/11/23/65640-the-hobbit-trilogy-connecting-the-dots-and-filling-the-blanks/

From the first page:

We first must realise that the plot and point of The Hobbit, set in its broader context and including Tolkien’s appendices, is as the preliminaries to the War of the Ring – as recounted in Lord of the Rings (LotR). In other words, Sauron (referred to as the ‘Necromancer’ in the Hobbit), and his minions the orcs/goblins, are the real enemy. Smaug the dragon is but a secondary villain, much as Saruman was the primary villain in the first two Lord of the Rings films but the secondary villain of the LotR trilogy.

I agree that this is the path PJ seems poised to take, but I don't think it's a positive. Basically, The Hobbit the book does not exist to be a prequel to LOTR or to throw greater context on subsequent events. That's what the Appendices for LOTR do. The Hobbit is the story of Bilbo Baggins and his adventures. Obviously we've known that PJ will combine the two for a long time, but it was not until relatively recently that it seemed like PJ was putting greater importance on the Appendices than he was on the original story of The Hobbit itself. However, as TORn's editorial points out, that is increasingly seeming to be the case. I'm sure they wouldn't word it like that, but if they really do take a character (the Necromancer) who didn't even merit half a dozen vague mentions in the book and make him the primary villain, I don't know what else to say. It won't be The Hobbit, pure and simple, even if it is entertaining.

Also, from the last page:

What they appear to be doing is fleshing out the whole of Middle-earth in the context of the War of the Ring, partly by giving crucial context and background by adapting the Hobbit and its contemporary events as told in the Appendices, but also by fleshing out the wider world contemporaneous with LotR, beyond what was possible in the adaptation of LotR as those films had to be tightly structured around the character arcs of the principle members of the fellowship, to the neglect of the characters who have more of a prominent role in the Hobbit: Gandalf, the Dwarves of Erebor (represented by Gimli in LotR); Legolas, not to mention Galadriel; Saruman; Elrond; Balin; Gollum; Sauron.

If this is what is planned, it would be unprecedented in film: rendering a world through trilogies that are not just sequential but also complementary and parallel. These will be 3D films not just visually, but in terms of the narrative too: both trilogies are an angle on the same world. If one watches them both, each presented from the angle of different protagonists and story-lines, one will end up in your head with a ’3D’ picture of a whole world.

Which is what Tolkien created: a world that is almost real in its detail, layers, complexities, and wholeness.

There are a couple of things that bug me about this. While Tolkien certainly worked hard to create a rich and detailed setting, I find it extremely disingenuous to use that to imply that PJ's alterations to The Hobbit are something that Tolkien would have approved of. The setting of The Hobbit is a marvelous one and a big part of its appeal but compared to The Silmarillion or LOTR it is not as exhaustive in its history. Nor should it be. The Hobbit is a different type of story and is not improved by lengthy discourses on backstory. That's why, even through all the revisions he made, Tolkien was still willing to make only vague references to past wars between dwarves, elves, and goblins without adding history lessons about the Wars of Beleriand or of the Dwarves and Orcs.

Finally, and this is somewhat of a minor point, I disagree that this approach would be "unprecedented in film". Whatever you think about the Star Wars prequels, they tried to do the exact same thing in terms of sequential trilogies that give greater context to each other. I know many people, myself included, think that the original Star Wars films are better without the context of the prequels, but that doesn't change the fact that George Lucas attempted this over a decade ago. I've made the comparison between The Hobbit films and the Star Wars prequels a few times, usually in jest, but there are a number of ways in which PJ's creation of a "prequel trilogy" is uncomfortably familiar.

Anyway, this is longer than I intended it to be, but I just thought I'd share my thoughts. The piece on TORn really is interesting reading though and I recommend you check it out if you have the time.

[Pettytyrant101]

You sum it up perfectly Eldo when you say ' It won't be The Hobbit, pure and simple, even if it is entertaining.'

Also it appears that the '3D world' Pj is creating bears little resemblance to Tolkiens- if it is true the history has been squashed so only 60 years pass between the arrival of Smaug and his fall, and that the history of the dwarves has been completely altered, and the Black Riders entombed by the Dunedain- then most of the history Tolkien wrote that makes up this '3D world' is ruined and not represented at all by these films.
I dont get the point of adding from the appendices only to alter every bit of it.
What we are left with is a film that is no longer the story of TH and nor is it genuine Tolkien history.
Im not sure whats left.

[chris63]

27 Animals Died During Making of The Hobbit, Say Handlers

Read more: http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/11/19/27-animals-died-during-making-of-the-hobbit-say-handlers/#ixzz2D4RoFC19

[Mrs Figg]

I think they more or less debunked the dead animals thing Chris.

hey Rodney made the first forumshire MERP poem! whatever merps are?

[azriel]

Petty, All thats left is a mans delusional ramblings, a man on the edge of a cliff,just hanging on by his finger nails, a man lost in the woods, a Heroin addict desperatley looking for the next "fix". & trying to include us all in his mad quest, while assuring us that its legit & ok. & that it'l be alright in the end.

[Pettytyrant101]

Mrs Figg- not debunked- its currenly under investigation by the NZ equivelent of the RSPCA.

Azriel- I fear that is indeed the case.

[Mrs Figg]

interview with Simon Tolkien. According to him ''Jackson was TOO FAITHFUL'' to the books.

[chris63]

First i'd heard about it Mrs Figg, glad its not true and thanks for letting me know

[Pettytyrant101]

Dont celebrate to soon Chris- it might be true- need to wait on the results of the official investigation into it- that animals died is not disputed- only how and why.