Questions for the Lore Masters.

my story Elthir looks like Thorin Oakenshield.

hay,

my Elthir had no idea there was any story Elthir

neigh,

Elthir's horse

Elthir wrote:

And what about HT and 'white, grey, brown' for the same Horse? David?

It's certainly possible in a "Riddles in the Dark" sort of way.
A horse may be born brown and therefore be a Brown,
With the genetics to turn gradually grey as it ages and therefore be a Grey,
And in old age it may appear white and therefore be White.
Thus a white, grey, brown horse.

Did I solve it?
Do I get points?
How about a button?

OK but do you [David] think the description in question is meant to be read in a 'Riddles in the Dark' kind of way (not that you said you did of course)?

In other words, how do you interpret this one? What colours are you imagining? And heavens one can't give away buttons at the drop of a hat... I'm not wearing a hat.

Well, I have a serious answer if you're looking for one, but it will cost you at least 10 points or 4 buttons.

...half in advance!

omg, i actually had a question...

Yes, I was going to attempt to answer it, but the discussion of Elvish childhood and aging is located in Morgoth's Ring (Volume X of The History of Middle-earth) and my brain is still recovering from the last time I tried to read that. Maybe Elthir can re-earn his Best Lore Award for you.

Alright, so I have to keep up with the Elthirses, so I took the plunge back into the vast, impenetrable murk that is Morgoth's Ring. The discussion of Elvish age is too long to type up in full, but it can be found in the section entitled "Laws and Customs Among the Eldar". I recommend it if you want to know more about when Elves mature or if you're looking for a good sleep aid.

Anyway, the relevant points are:

- Elves mature more quickly than humans mentally, but their bodies mature slower.

- Elvish and human children were similar in appearance and development at first, but human children began to age more quickly around the age of three.

- At about the human age of maturity (presumably about 18) Elves still appeared to be about seven years old in human terms.

- Most Elves reached physical maturity around the age of 50, though some took until age 100.

- Elves tended to marry while they were still young, usually shortly after they turned 50.

- Elves tended to have few children, and generally had them shortly after being married, even if they married later than usual. (This is shortly by Elvish standards.)

As for Legolas, Tolkien never stated how old he was, but we can still speculate. Leggy referred to others in the Fellowship (not Gandalf) as "children", which would suggest he was considerably older. However, he claimed to feel young compared to Fangorn and was not mentioned in any account of the Last Alliance. I think the most widely accepted theory is that he was born in the Third Age. When the Fellowship first reaches Lorien, Legolas comments that it had been a long time since "we", meaning the Mirkwood Elves, had been in that region. In fact, the Woodland Realm had moved from Amon Lanc (later Dol Guldur) in the Second Age. However, it's not clear from Legolas' statement if he is including himself as one of the people who had previously lived near Mirkwood.

Unless I'm forgetting something important, we can only be as sure about Legolas' age as we are about his hair color. However, I do think it's fair to say that Legolas was a fully mature adult during LOTR. The movies tended to imply that he was younger though, especially since Orlando Bloom was still in his early 20s during filming.

"Most Elves reached physical maturity around the age of 50",

does that mean Orwie in an Elf?

It might be 60 - let's wait and see, shall we?

Congratulations on a successful spamathon, Orwell!

Thanks.


{{I wonder if I'll still be doing it still at 60? }}}

Yes Dave I would be interested in your answer... but you get no buttons for demanding buttons. That's a negative three in points so far, by my calculations.

And yes Eldo is correct about Elves according to Morgoth's Ring [well I assume, I trust Eldo]. Also I'm fairly certain I've posted (somewhere in these shining halls) some variations, or what I think are variations, on this information.

I would track these down but I just won an award and I need to get a frame for it instead of all this Legolas business.

Elthir wrote:Yes Dave I would be interested in your answer... but you get no buttons for demanding buttons. That's a negative three in points so far, by my calculations.

Not a demand, simply a business proposition. Fair is fair. If you find the price too dear, you're always welcome to make me a counter-offer.

I think you'll find that I can be quite reasonable, especially if you're purchasing answers in bulk.

thank you very much, Eldo! that cleared things up a bit

if galadriel can teleport y doesn't she teleport 2 destroy the ring

Teleporting messes up her hair and she knew there's be cameras and reporters and such nasties when she arrived.

i knew slowly spinning round to let celestial lights light up her perfect being wasn't as easy ad it looks

David H wrote: Not a demand, simply a business proposition.

You'll get nothing and like it! Now eat your carrots and off you go! Which means you will get carrots instead of nothing... and well... you can have other things too.





Sorry I was talking to my horse.

But in response to you David, life isn't fair. So spill and I might consider adding three positive points to your existing negative three, which actually is inching towards negative four with all this off topicry.



Here's my short version for how long it takes a young Elf to grow to be an adult Elf, if that was the question!

Laws and Customs Morgoth's Ring: 50 Sun Years, for some 100 (as Eldo already correctly and more betterly noted above)

Aman Morgoth's Ring: 3000 Sun Years... yes I said 3,000 years... at least in the early days of the Quendi but this seems subject to change. See also Athrabeth Finrod Ah Andreth (Morgoth's Ring) for Finrod noting what I posted below the line below.

Author's notes to Neter, kanat, enek Vinyar Tengwar 47: the growth of Elvish children after birth was little if at all slower than that of the children of Men

So, essentially not that different from Men. This is the latest reference I know of so far, going by external dating I mean.



__________________ (this is that line I was referring to earlier)

'This I can well believe,' said Finrod: 'That your bodies suffer in some measure the malice of Melkor. For you live in Arda Marred, as do we, and all the matter of Arda is tainted by him, before ye or we came forth and drew our hroar and their sustenance therefrom: all save only Aman before he came there. For know it is not otherwise with the Quendi themselves: their health and stature is diminished. Already those of us who dwell in Middle-earth, and even we who have returned to it, find that the change* [*the word change was an emendation to the typescript B (only); the manuscript has growth -- footnote by CJRT] of their bodies is swifter than in the beginning. And that, I judge, must forebode that they will prove less strong to last than they were designed to be, though this may not be clearly revealed for many long years.'

This was written about the same time as Aman for example. Hmm.

By the way Galadriel cannot teleport.

The closest she gets is Teleporno, but that is just a somewhat unfortunate Telerin version of the name Celeborn.

"The closest she gets is Teleporno...."

So now Galadriel's having cybersex??

I'm not surprised. Hard to get a date when you talk that slow.

she is so damn irritating. I heard the WC in English finally, and its painful, Galadriel sounds like she is drugged and moves like a wooden dummy, its just awful. .She is worse than Azog in the acting department. How can she think that just talking and moving slowly makes her look ethereal? it doesnt. it looks stagey and actressy.

my diva wish is to stand on a cliff one day, turn around, and have my dress draped perfectly around my ankles like Galadriel's

also cate blanchett is an amazing actress

She is an amazing actress- which gives you an idea of the sort of guff of a script you have to give her for her to turn in a performance like that one.
Either that or Gandy had slipped her some rohypnol