Doctor Who [2]
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Re: Doctor Who [2]
by Pettytyrant101 Tue Jul 31, 2012 2:08 pm
I hate that Kylie xmas special- got a few good moments but its so typical RTD. London, an unexplained implausability- why did an alien race build a space liner and call it Titanic?
Moffat takes the piss out that episode- just before the xmas episode (the kylie ep was a xmas one ) the Doctor gets a phone call- "An egyptian goddess, lose on the Orient Express. In space."
I see the opening to 11th hour precredits as being a dig at RTD too- its full of his troepes- London landmarks, corny jokes and explosions. Even the way it is shot and lit is completely different to Moffats Who, which really begins after the credits.
Midninght is the episode you are thinking of Mrs Figg- a superb episode. I'd also include the Family of Blood two parter as being among 10's best (where he becomes John Smith).
Moffat takes the piss out that episode- just before the xmas episode (the kylie ep was a xmas one ) the Doctor gets a phone call- "An egyptian goddess, lose on the Orient Express. In space."
I see the opening to 11th hour precredits as being a dig at RTD too- its full of his troepes- London landmarks, corny jokes and explosions. Even the way it is shot and lit is completely different to Moffats Who, which really begins after the credits.
Midninght is the episode you are thinking of Mrs Figg- a superb episode. I'd also include the Family of Blood two parter as being among 10's best (where he becomes John Smith).
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Re: Doctor Who [2]
by Mrs Figg Tue Jul 31, 2012 2:14 pm
oh give over! Kylie was great, it was really moving and I liked it lots, or you saying all Moffats plots are plausable, what the fuck is plausable about a giant wild boar running round a hotel? cumon its all WILDLY implausable thats why we love it, dont get snobby between Moffat and the other writers, its all Who and its all good stuff. 
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Re: Doctor Who [2]
by Pettytyrant101 Tue Jul 31, 2012 2:19 pm
Its not plausabiltiy only - its coherence within the framework of the stroy, thats my problem with RTD. He sets stuff up, then either forgets about it, or just 'solves' it.
Look at the Bad Wolf thing- it popped up throughout, but there was no way for the viewer to work out what it was about because he never gave any clues and the solution came out of left field and was just plucked out the air it seemed. A deux ex machina solution.
He did the same with Master stroy- huge problem, episode cliffhanger- solved with a literal wave of the hand of a character who hadnt even been introduced in the first part.
I simply prefer Moffats who actually gives you all the info you need to work it out. Its more fun I think to play along, to try to put it all together and figure it out.
This is one of those matters of tatse things- RTD's writting was not really to my tatse. Moffats is.
Look at the Bad Wolf thing- it popped up throughout, but there was no way for the viewer to work out what it was about because he never gave any clues and the solution came out of left field and was just plucked out the air it seemed. A deux ex machina solution.
He did the same with Master stroy- huge problem, episode cliffhanger- solved with a literal wave of the hand of a character who hadnt even been introduced in the first part.
I simply prefer Moffats who actually gives you all the info you need to work it out. Its more fun I think to play along, to try to put it all together and figure it out.
This is one of those matters of tatse things- RTD's writting was not really to my tatse. Moffats is.
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Re: Doctor Who [2]
by Norc Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:27 pm
thank you petty for finding those episodes for me, but I'm not gonna watch Who today. I have visitors. Imagen that! 
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Re: Doctor Who [2]
by Mrs Figg Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:37 pm
well for me Who is Who, and its all good whoever writes the episodes, some are stronger than others, and obviously Moffat is great but I can enjoy all of it (apart from Ponds)
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Re: Doctor Who [2]
by Pettytyrant101 Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:11 pm
All Who is Who, but some eras I prefer to others.
Thats true for me of Classic Who as well. I am not a fan of the Pertwee era, not because the writing is poor, theres some good stuff in there, but because of how they saw the Doctor and the setting they chose.
I also think the writing is poor for 3/4 of the McCoy era, even though I like his Doctor. And large chunks of Colin Bakers run suffer from poor writing as well.
These are of course merely my own tastes in writing styles. Who can alter quite dramtically with a change of Head Writer- as it did from the RTD to Moffat era.
But Moffat is the first Head Writer to change the mood and the style, and even the series format, series to series. Series 5 and 6 are quite different in tone and content even though the overall story is linked. He also split 6 in two halves with a gap in transmission of several months between the two.
It is a risky and bold strategy but for me Moffat has so far pulled it off with style. But again thats just my prefrence in styles.
No worries Norc. You are doing amazingly well as is, a break will do you no harm.
And no better place to break than between series- just imagine you've had to wait about 2 months - then watch the xmas special- then have another break and imagine its been a wait of about 4 months- then watch the first half of series 6- have another break and pretend its been for another 3 months- then watch the second half of series 6- then take a last break and pretend its been another 2 months- and watch the series 6 xmas special- after all that you will not only be up to date but you will have an idea of what Moffat puts us through in waiting. Its not just Sherlock fans he does this too- he seems to delight in it.
Thats true for me of Classic Who as well. I am not a fan of the Pertwee era, not because the writing is poor, theres some good stuff in there, but because of how they saw the Doctor and the setting they chose.
I also think the writing is poor for 3/4 of the McCoy era, even though I like his Doctor. And large chunks of Colin Bakers run suffer from poor writing as well.
These are of course merely my own tastes in writing styles. Who can alter quite dramtically with a change of Head Writer- as it did from the RTD to Moffat era.
But Moffat is the first Head Writer to change the mood and the style, and even the series format, series to series. Series 5 and 6 are quite different in tone and content even though the overall story is linked. He also split 6 in two halves with a gap in transmission of several months between the two.
It is a risky and bold strategy but for me Moffat has so far pulled it off with style. But again thats just my prefrence in styles.
No worries Norc. You are doing amazingly well as is, a break will do you no harm.
And no better place to break than between series- just imagine you've had to wait about 2 months - then watch the xmas special- then have another break and imagine its been a wait of about 4 months- then watch the first half of series 6- have another break and pretend its been for another 3 months- then watch the second half of series 6- then take a last break and pretend its been another 2 months- and watch the series 6 xmas special- after all that you will not only be up to date but you will have an idea of what Moffat puts us through in waiting. Its not just Sherlock fans he does this too- he seems to delight in it.
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Re: Doctor Who [2]
by Mrs Figg Tue Jul 31, 2012 5:07 pm
well Moffat writes Sherlock in a style I love, but Who has left me cold from the time Tennant left. The only episode I liked was the Christmas one set in the 40s, I just dont get it, its obviously a question of taste or something, dunno what it is. Its annoying.
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Re: Doctor Who [2]
by Pettytyrant101 Tue Jul 31, 2012 5:52 pm
It is a shame Mrs Figg but these things as are they are, inexplicable sometimes- its like me and the Pertwee era, I like the actor (adored Worzel Gummidge) a lot of the writing is very good (Inferno for one) but overall I just dont connect with it. It doesnt feel like Who to me somehow.
Now, here's just some of my thoughts on just one of the many elements Moffat weaves into Who. Its just a general overview of a theme in series 5 for folks consideration..
Series 5 Collectively
Now, here's just some of my thoughts on just one of the many elements Moffat weaves into Who. Its just a general overview of a theme in series 5 for folks consideration..
Series 5 Collectively
- Spoiler:
- The Moffat Who Wrote Fairytales.
Once upon a time there was a writer called Stephen Moffat......the point of this is to look at a theme running through Moffats Who in series 5 and 6 like letters through a stick of Blackpool rock. Fairystory.
This part will deal solely with elements in series 5.
Post-credits Moffats Who era in the 11th Hour begins with a shot of a child's wind toy, spinning in a large rambling garden. And a large house with a Tardis blue front door under a starry sky.
The music has a childs lullaby quality to it.
Moffats first motifs set the tone. This Who is a childrens tale.
Immediately we are introduced to the child in question, Amellia Pond, about whose name the Doctor would shortly explicitly say "sounds like something out of a fairytale."
Little Amelia has a problem. A mysterious crack in her bedroom wall from behind which she hears voices at night.
Moffat loves to play on the younger elements in his audiences fears and imaginings. And to remind the adults of how they once saw the world. Which of course is what a good fairy story does.
She is praying, not to God, in one of many little digs at religion Moffat finds space for in his Who run, she is praying to Santa for help with the wall. She may as well have ben wishing on a star as that is the theme which it invokes.
And on cue instead of Jimminy Cricket we get the Doctor crashlanding in her backgarden.
The opening sequence is crucial in establishing how Moffat is going to see his Who. His Doctor, when he see him, is as he later describes himself, like "a madman with a box".
Doctor Who has at its most basic had fairytale ideas built into as much as any sci-fi or action/adventure ones.
The Tardis could be a magic carpet, a magic lamp or a wardrobe- its purpose is to be magical and to transport our heroes to the next adventure.
The Doctor himself has always had an element of Gandalf, or Merlin about him; the mysterious figure with unknown powers who meddles in things the rest of us dont even know about.
What Moffat does is to bring these elements of Who right to the fore.
In the Beast Below we have several more fairytale allusions. Amy's introduction narration speaking of her 'imaginary friend who came back' keeps the viewer aware that she is also still Amelia Pond too.
She also spends this episode in her nightie. A nod to Peter Pan as the Doctor's Pan whisks her off to Neverland. She even starts the episode 'flying' out the Tardis door.
Moffat also gives us a Queen and a Tower with Dungeon and clockwork people to keep the fairytale motif going.
The Daleks episode serves another purpose than the theme of fairytale. It is there to 'reset' the Dalek story regarding earth.
But Moffat immediately returns to his theme in the Angels two parter.
These two episode have many fairytale elemnts to them. The Angles themselves are in the fairytale tradition. And Moffat even manages somehow to get Amy in a red top wandering a forest in a space ship.
Another fairytale element which Moffat has been seeding comes to the fore in these two episodes- memory. Forgetting appears in several fairystories and Tolkien of course used it too.
Throughout the following epsiodes we are introduced to the heroines Prince Charming- Rory. In a varation of the beauty and the beast notion he goes from being an awkward, slightly bumbling doormat to Amy to the Last Centurion and Mr Pond.
However before he gets there he has to be a part of the fairytale.
The finale to the series is full of fairytale elements- Amy being put to sleep for 2000 years like Sleeping Beauty in her castle- Rory waiting all that time for her to be reuinited.
Amy brings the Doctor back through the power of remembering and story.
Pandorica's box even makes an appearance after a fashion and regarding it the Doctor describes a fairytale about a terrible evil tricked into becoming trapped in the box by a good wizard. To which River adds to Amy, "I hate good wizards in fairytales. They always turn out to be him."
This harkens back to the end conversation in the angels to parter when the Doctor tells River the Pandorica is just a fairytale. To which River replies with a laugh "Oh Doctor. Aren't we all?"
In Moffats Who the answer to that is yes you are.
Every fairystory of course requires a big bad. All fairystory eventually have to take a turn to the dark or they are not a fairystory- and the role for that in Moffats Who is given over the unknown voice who says "Silence will fall" and who is responsible for the attempted destruction of the Tardis. But that turn to the dark is what series 6 is for....
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Re: Doctor Who [2]
by Eldorion Tue Jul 31, 2012 6:35 pm
Mrs Figg wrote:I like Tennant too, he was excellent, and in some of my all time favourite episodes, like the stone angels and the one where they are all stuck in a pod thing and they just talk, cant remember the name of the episode. also he has my favourite assistants, Rose and Martha. the brilliant Sally and Kylie I mean.
KYLIE
Sounds like I have a lot to look forward to.
I am just gearing up to watching all the Donna episodes, I have a feeling I will like her.
I really wish I could like Matt, I do try, maybe it will be different with this new girl.
I really liked Donna in the two episodes I've seen so far. I've got nothing against Matt but I really, really liked Tennant so far. There were a number of similarities in their demeanors though, it seemed, which makes sense since they're basically the same character.
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Re: Doctor Who [2]
by Pettytyrant101 Tue Jul 31, 2012 6:42 pm
There ar elinks to the episodes Mrs Figg mentions save the Kylie one somewhere on here. The angels one is called Blink. And is the debut of Moffats Weeping Angles. And the other episode she refers to is Midnight. Its a beauiful simple, small scale few actors in a room 
episode.
I will try to trakck down the runaway bride for you Mrs Figg.
episode.I will try to trakck down the runaway bride for you Mrs Figg.
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Re: Doctor Who [2]
by Eldorion Tue Jul 31, 2012 6:45 pm
I've heard of Blink before and am quite curious about it.
I loved Moffat's writing in Silence in the Library with only a few minor quibbles (mostly things seeming a bit rushed) so if he wrote Blink to I expect I'll enjoy it very much.
I loved Moffat's writing in Silence in the Library with only a few minor quibbles (mostly things seeming a bit rushed) so if he wrote Blink to I expect I'll enjoy it very much.
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Re: Doctor Who [2]
by Pettytyrant101 Tue Jul 31, 2012 6:48 pm
Blink
http://www.tubeplus.me/player/867647/Doctor_Who/season_3/episode_10/Blink/
http://www.tubeplus.me/player/867647/Doctor_Who/season_3/episode_10/Blink/
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Re: Doctor Who [2]
by Eldorion Tue Jul 31, 2012 6:49 pm
Thanks Petty. Will keep watching when I have some time.
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Re: Doctor Who [2]
by Pettytyrant101 Tue Jul 31, 2012 7:04 pm
I cant find Runaway Bride Mrs Figg but I have found a work around!
Watch Part 1 here:
Then watch part the rest of th eparts here:
Just under the video box where it says 'uploaded by'- click on the uploaders name to go their page and you will find the rest of the parts to it there if you scroll down the page.
Watch Part 1 here:
Then watch part the rest of th eparts here:
Just under the video box where it says 'uploaded by'- click on the uploaders name to go their page and you will find the rest of the parts to it there if you scroll down the page.
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Re: Doctor Who [2]
by Pettytyrant101 Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:23 pm
mostly things seeming a bit rushed -Eldo
The Doctor only moves at running pace.
The Doctor only moves at running pace.
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Re: Doctor Who [2]
by Mrs Figg Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:23 pm
oh do watch Blink Eldo, I was quite surprised how simply facinating it is, and there is SALLY, my nearly all time favourite, apart from Rose. Tennant is pretty damn brilliant.
How Petty doesnt like Kylie in that other episode I will never understand, she is super cute.
How Petty doesnt like Kylie in that other episode I will never understand, she is super cute.
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Re: Doctor Who [2]
by Mrs Figg Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:36 pm
thanks for the links Petty I have tried them but I am getting buffered at the moment, every second and its annoying so I will try later.
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Re: Doctor Who [2]
by Norc Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:59 pm
I love Moffats fairystories (yes, I read all that!)
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Re: Doctor Who [2]
by Pettytyrant101 Wed Aug 01, 2012 12:36 am
And thankyou for doing so Norc. 
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Re: Doctor Who [2]
by Pettytyrant101 Wed Aug 01, 2012 1:16 am
An interview with Neve McIntosh she played 2 parts in the Silurian two parter and came back as a different Silurian in series 6.
If you dont want any series 6 spoilers on the character she plays in it stop watching at 13 mins.
If you dont want any series 6 spoilers on the character she plays in it stop watching at 13 mins.
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A Green And Pleasant Land
Compiled and annotated by Eldy.
- get your copy here for a limited period- free*
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Warning may contain Wholesome Tales[/b]
A Green And Pleasant Land
Compiled and annotated by Eldy.
- get your copy here for a limited period- free*
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yjYiz8nuL3LqJ-yP9crpDKu_BH-1LwJU/view
*Pure Publications reserves the right to track your usage of this publication, snoop on your home address, go through your bins and sell personal information on to the highest bidder.
Warning may contain Wholesome Tales[/b]
the crabbit will suffer neither sleight of hand nor half-truths. - Forest
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Re: Doctor Who [2]
by Pettytyrant101 Wed Aug 01, 2012 2:17 am
I just realised I made a mistake in my short piece on fairytale- the Dalek episode does have a fairytale motif. Sneaky bugger Moffat he makes it so you cant see the trees for the wood!
- Spoiler:
- It has a tin man in it who needs a heart! How did I miss that before?
_________________
Pure Publications, The Tower of Lore and the Former Admin's Office are Reasonably Proud to Present-
A Green And Pleasant Land
Compiled and annotated by Eldy.
- get your copy here for a limited period- free*
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yjYiz8nuL3LqJ-yP9crpDKu_BH-1LwJU/view
*Pure Publications reserves the right to track your usage of this publication, snoop on your home address, go through your bins and sell personal information on to the highest bidder.
Warning may contain Wholesome Tales[/b]
A Green And Pleasant Land
Compiled and annotated by Eldy.
- get your copy here for a limited period- free*
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yjYiz8nuL3LqJ-yP9crpDKu_BH-1LwJU/view
*Pure Publications reserves the right to track your usage of this publication, snoop on your home address, go through your bins and sell personal information on to the highest bidder.
Warning may contain Wholesome Tales[/b]
the crabbit will suffer neither sleight of hand nor half-truths. - Forest
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