Re: The Bigger, Badder, Even More Serious Thread

by **Orwell** Wed Jul 13, 2011 10:31 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:"All change today with News International- they're unstoppbale bid to take over Sky has been stopped! They've pulled out in the face of a Parliamentary vote backed by all parties to tell them to pull out. Judges have been appointed with full powers to call witnesses for the enquiries and a light is been shone into some very murky areas of our political, media, police. Here's hoping we actually end up with a real free press this time.

Prosperous democracies work --- but only when people get angry enough to get off the collective arse and make an effort.

by Pettytyrant101 Sat Jul 16, 2011 6:07 pm

Murdoch took out a full page ad in most of the UK newspapers today. It follows the resignation of Rebekah Brooks who was in charge of the UK arm of news International and Les Hinton who was chief executive of Dow Jones, publisher of the Wall Street Journal. He's the highest up exec to go so far. Heres the ad;

[img] The Bigger, Badder, Even More Serious Thread - Page 36 Article-2015013-0D077C3B00000578-414_634x634

The Bigger, Badder, Even More Serious Thread - Page 36 Article-2015013-0D077C3B00000578-414_634x634

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On Tuesday Murdoch, his son James and Rebekah Brooks have been summoned to face a Select Committe in Parliament, and as these are filmed it has the potential to be quite interesting. Murdoch and son declined the invitation at first saying they were busy that day, but Parliament responded that they would hold the Committee anyway and if they were not there they would be foud in contempt of Parliament, something rarely invoked and not for a very long time, and they would be arrested and then forced to attend. But, would you believe it, at the last minute it turned out they had read their diaries wrong and they could make it after all.

edit add- oh and almost forgot this nugget of information tha came out today about the PM.

"Mr Cameron has met its (News Int.) top executives 26 times in the 15 months since he became prime minister, it emerged."

another eit add- the more you learn the worse it gets- this from the New York Times;

"Members of Parliament said in interviews that they were troubled by a “revolving door” between the police and News International, which included a former top editor at The News of the World at the time of the hacking who went on to work as a media strategist for Scotland Yard.
On Friday, The New York Times learned that the former editor, Neil Wallis, was reporting back to News International while he was working for the police on the hacking case.
Executives and others at the company also enjoyed close social ties to Scotland Yard’s top officials. Since the hacking scandal began in 2006, Mr. Yates and others regularly dined with editors from News International papers, records show. Sir Paul Stephenson, the police commissioner, met for meals 18 times with company executives and editors during the investigation, including on eight occasions with Mr. Wallis while he was still working at The News of the World."

by **Orwell** Sun Jul 17, 2011 2:42 am

I accept Rupert's apology. It seems so sincere. Very Happy

by Pettytyrant101 Mon Jul 18, 2011 9:38 am

Well suspicious goings on! Or are they? Rebekah Brooks has been arrested along with a bunch of others by the MET- however they could have arrested them at any time- by choosing to arrest them now, before Brooks et all are put before the Committee on Tuesday, they have provided legal cover for not answering questions -"That's part of an ongoing investigation I cannot comment lest it prejudices the case" defences all round I reckon. Is this the MET preventing a public cross examination of witnesses that might show it in a less than favourable light?

by Pettytyrant101 Mon Jul 18, 2011 12:09 pm

Torrential rain and flash floods in parts of Scotland yetserday. So typical Scottish summer. And how did the good people of Scotland deal with this? By pretending it wasn't happening and refusing to let it win thats how! Carry on regardless! And bugger a wee drop of rain, the dog still needs walking and people still got to get married!

by Pettytyrant101 Mon Jul 18, 2011 11:55 pm

Skullduggery or mere coincidence? A whistle blower on the News Int. scandal has been foudnd dead. This from the BBC;

"A former News of the World journalist who made phone-hacking allegations against the paper has been found dead.
Sean Hoare had told the New York Times the practice was far more extensive than the paper acknowledged when police first investigated hacking claims.
Hertfordshire Police said the body of a man was found at a property in Langley Road, Watford, on Monday morning.
A police spokesman said the death was currently being treated as unexplained, but was not thought to be suspicious."

At least its not the MET investigating or who would believe them these days if they said it was "not thought to be suspicious"?

by Ringdrotten Fri Jul 22, 2011 6:31 pm

Seems like the terrorist threats made against Norway weren't just talk after all Shocked

A car bomb exploded in Oslo today (the Norwegian capital) that killed several people and injured more. As if that wasn't enough, a man dressed in a police uniform shot four people in a youth party's summer camp. It's not yet confirmed that it is a terroist attack, though, but it isn't unlikely given past threats and the nature of the explosion. Must be terrible for those involved, especially the families and friends of those hurt or dead. The right wing extremists won't forget this in a hurry I'm afraid.

by Eldorion Fri Jul 22, 2011 7:47 pm

BBC News is the first thing I see when I turn on my computer, and that was quite a shock right after getting back from work. Shocked

My thoughts are with all those involved, and I hope the person(s) involved are caught quickly...

by Pettytyrant101 Fri Jul 22, 2011 9:16 pm

Glad you were nowhere near it Ringdrotten- had me worried there today.
What are these youth camps? (sounds a bit dodgy!-wasn't Hitler big on them?)
Given the defence preparations and security in the UK I am not suprised the terrorists choose a softer target (from what I can tell Norway wasn't really expecting this despite threats). I do hope there is not a knee jerk reaction- there is being safe and then there is being so afraid you curb your own freedoms to stop them curbing them by force.

by Ringdrotten Fri Jul 22, 2011 9:54 pm

I don't think anyone in Norway ever took the threats very seriously, so you're quite right. Youth camp is perhaps not the best word - it's a a place where party members from all over the country meet once a year to do whatever they do. The latest report from the police says 10 people were killed by the shooter. What a tragedy this is, there are people as young as 14 attending that meeting.

by Pettytyrant101 Fri Jul 22, 2011 9:58 pm

Not good. And always the possibiltiy of more to come. As you noted above this is going to do nothing to curb the rising right wing politics in Europe. A terrible day for all those caught up in it but sadly itmight prove worse fo rus all in the long run. Level heads are what is needed now-does Norway have any among its politicians? How do you think Norway will react to this?

by Ringdrotten Fri Jul 22, 2011 10:10 pm

I'd say the current government and prime minister are pretty level headed, despite what the right wing opposition would have us believe. As to Norway's reaction - I doubt we'll do much, really. Definitely no armed retaliations (I'd be very surprised if there were) Anyway, it seems like Norwegians have played a part in this too - the shooter has been caught and he is an ethnic Norwegian, and it is believed that the same man was sighted near the area of the explosion shortly before it happened. So it is possible that no foreign groups were even involved. I doubt that'll make much of a difference with the racists out there, though, they've been shouting loud all day. The right wing parties (there are two big ones, and one of them is known for their racist views) were already gaining voters before this happened, I can only imagine how many will turn to them now.

by Pettytyrant101 Fri Jul 22, 2011 10:18 pm

Sadly it sounds like a lone nut or small group. That's one of the problems with the modern day- anyone can get their hands on stuff you can make go bang. Amatuers are the threat (recommend Four Lions the film which is exactly about that). And the ripples they can cause can be comletely out of proportion to their importance.

by Ringdrotten Fri Jul 22, 2011 10:31 pm

True. I wouldn't be surprised if some Norwegian right wing extremists were behind this. I doubt that they'd shoot Norwegians, though, even if they were in the labour youth party. Impossible to say who's behind it at this point, really.

by **Orwell** Fri Jul 22, 2011 11:53 pm

I presume these terrible attacks were done under the pretext of supporting some ideological belief, secular or religious. It also shows us that no one is safe from "believers." I'm with Socrates, the more I know the less I know, so for me forming a "belief" to assist the persuit of "goodness" or "rightness" by killing someone in stealth and cowardice (or in Martyrdom, if that be the case) will never occur. Most decent (sane) people wouldn't. And if I ever have to shoot someone, it will only be to stop that someone (maybe one of these "ideologues" - I could get lucky) in the actual direct act of carrying out an atrocity against another human being. Curiously, I've just finished doing a semi-automatic firearms course, I've got a new gun to carry around, and this kind of thing reminds me why I carry the thing. Chilling thought, especially as I am reminded of two of my comrades back in 1999 who were shot (not fatally) while I was with them. I was very close to the gunman (closer than my comrades) and was lucky not to be gunned down. I later found out a small tree was in the line of sight, else I'm confident I'd be in Valinor now. In all, four of my comrades were shot that night. We were in luck though, no one died, except the gunman himself . He shot himself. He had a mental illness. I hold no grudges against the poor soul. Anyhow, sorry for the ramble, but I do get emotional about these kinds of things, but my pragmatism informs me that none of us are safe from "believers" or the "mentally ill", which can often be the same people. Ideolgues, hate 'em... unless, of course, they're GB Very Happy

- so long as he stays non-violent! Mad

by Ringdrotten Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:13 am

Scary story, Orwell - not at all wholesome! Glad you're still among the living, this place would never have been what it is today without you Wink

I can imagine situations like this one must look different from a policeman's point of view - not an easy line of work when it comes to this.

by Pettytyrant101 Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:24 am

I wholeheartedly agree that the more certain someone is of something the less safe they are. Its those who claim absolute authority you have to watch out for. The natural response of a rational human being to the universe is "bugger me that's big. Wonder whats its for?" Anyone who looks at and says "I know exactly what this is for, who built it and precisely what they want everyone to do" should of course immediately be seized upon and locked away.

by **Orwell** Sat Jul 23, 2011 1:51 am

Thanks for the thought, Ringdrotten. Mind, the compensation for the dangers of my job is the fact that most times cops have the weaponry and numbers on our side. What I'm trying to say is, life can be dangerous for anyone, and it's the unexpected and the unprepared for which will end up killing us. It's chilling to know that, but who can be bothered to spend their life worrying about the unforseen, I mean, we've gotta die somehow. Leave all that negative thinking about dying to the religious folk to stew over, that's what I say. Very Happy

And Petty, yes, I feel like getting my gun out and killing all those types...... whoops --- now I'm doin' it! Shocked

I can be such a reactionary at times.... Embarassed

by Ringdrotten Sat Jul 23, 2011 2:03 am

It appears the shooter was a right wing nationalist after all. It remains to be seen whether he is part of a group, and if so, if this group is also responsible for the bombings.

by **Orwell** Sat Jul 23, 2011 2:05 am

Thank goodness for that. I was worried it might be Muslim terrorists...

by Ringdrotten Sat Jul 23, 2011 2:55 am

Latest police report says at least 80 were killed at the meeting - young people with their whole lives ahead of them..

by **Orwell** Sat Jul 23, 2011 9:25 am

Clearly a nut case, sadly. Nothing can be done about them, we'll always have them. These are the types "smarter" ideolgues implant vicious ideas into... Chilling and cowardly approach, but ideolgues are like that, they don't directly do the dirty work themselves. I feel for all those kids wanting to make a contribution to your society, Ringdrotten. What a terrible way to be rewarded for loving your country and wanting to improve democracy.

by Pettytyrant101 Sat Jul 23, 2011 1:12 pm

Right wing Christain fundamentalist seems to be the BBC summing up of the suspect in the shootings and the bombing. Perhaps some small sliver of good that might come out of this is such groups are seen for what they are.
The more news that comes out the more tragic and wasteful it all seems. 84 grieving families, 84 lives cut short in their prime, and for what? A God? We really need to knock this religion nonsense on the head and consign it to the waste bin of history, the price of religion is way too high.

by Ringdrotten Sat Jul 23, 2011 1:23 pm

Not for any God by the looks of it. The youth party was connected to the labour party, and he hated the labour party. Hated them enough to shoot people from their youth organisation it seems. You'd think even the worst racists would quiet down now, but guess what: They're blaming the prime minister and the labour party for "driving the man to take action because they have been letting too many immigrants in" (naturally they didn't use the word immigrants, but there's no need to translate certain words). I rarely wish that people should get hurt, but by Eru I hope these people are all hit by cars.

by Pettytyrant101 Sat Jul 23, 2011 1:27 pm

So the right are claiming its the lefts fault one of their number was a crazy nutter who indiscriminatently murdered? Now thats thinking for you, of a sort, the sort that requires a pea for a brain, and a pea full of poison at that.
What a stupid point of view- you treated these other people as equal humanbeings and now look what you've made us do? Madness! Pure madness! Mad