UK in/out referendum on the EU (Brexit vs Bremain)

 To the Scottish courts. Brilliant news!

Lets hope they have more evidence from the private messages from Cummings and co before the appeal. That should put it to bed once and for all. In theory the government have to hand over all private messages by 11pm tonight. If they don't they are breaking the law. Again.

Expect the ruling to be overturned. Can't have Scotland tell English people what to do.

In theory the government have to hand over all private messages by 11pm tonight. If they don't they are breaking the law.- Figg

{{So far they are still not complying- same goes for the Yellowhammer documents outlining posible no deal outcomes. That one is currently my favourite political thing of the moment thanks to Andrea Ledsom, who on ITV's breakfast show this morning said that,

"I actually think it does not serve people well to see what is the worst thing that could happen...Simply putting out there all of the possible permutations of what could happen actually just serves to concern people."

So yeah, the government doesn't want us to know what the results of their no deal plan would be because the result would only worry us, so best we just dont know. Incredible really.

In other Brexit madness the Brexit party have taken out full and double page adverts in national newspapers making Boris an offer-



To which the reply has come-

"Mr Farage is not a fit and proper person and should never be allowed anywhere near government".

Chancellor Sajid Javid said: "We don't need an electoral alliance with anyone. We can stand on our own two feet, put our message across."

So for now that would seem to be a no then.
Problem is without some sort of pact with the Brexit party, or by nullifying them entirely by coming up with an actual workable exit deal, Boris will need that coordination to hope to win an election.

With regards to the Scottish court ruling, well Tories seem to falling back on strirring up good old fashioned anti-Scottish rhetoric by casting doubt on the motivations and impartiality of the judges purely on the basis they are Scottish -

'Sources in No10 now hitting back at the Scottish judges : "We note that last week the High Court in London did not rule that prorogation was unlawful. The legal activists choose the Scottish courts for a reason".'  

Do remember the only reason this was heard in a Scottish court at all was because the English one was on holiday at the time.}}

{{ No 10 in response to earlier no 10 sources casting doubt on the Scottish judges-

“The Prime Minister has total confidence in the independence of the judiciary”

So is it good they caught their own knee-jerk racism right after they said it? Or should that maybe by this point in history have happened before they said it? We are all in it together! Equal partners! Right? }}

Not surprisingly, proroguing Parliament doesn't seem to have Boris' job any easier, does it?

I predict its all going to go tits up for Johnson and his little mates.

{{{ You now that desperate old trick where someone wants to say and get out there something they know is either untrue/offensive/racist/sexist or whatever and they say something like, "Well I'd never say this, but some people say....' and that way you get the idea out there and plant it in minds, whislt excusing yourself of any blame? That really cheap weasly trick?

Well....

'Kwasi Kwarteng, business minister told the BBC's Andrew Neil Show: "I'm not saying this, but, many people are saying that the judges are biased."

Depressing isn't it? The judges are biased? Why? Because they are Scottish judges of course! Which was not even implied in the first no 10 statement but explicit-  'The legal activists choose the Scottish courts for a reason.'
Despite the later official releases of the PM's faith in the independence of the courts etc its clear what is really being said in no 10 and what message they really want people in England to take from it, the Scots are biased against you! }}}

{{ Having shut down Parliament Boris is holding his own 'People's PMQ's' I kid you not. Kind of Trumps talking direct to the people via twitter- only one step further becuase Boris is intelligent enough to talk for a length of time on topic and to do his preparation. }}

{{{ Halfy you were asking about our right wing press- here's some examples of the worst headlines from the worst example- the Daily Mail. }}}

{{ Boris is denying he lied to the Queen saying,

"Absolutely not. The High Court in England plainly agrees with us, but the Supreme Court will have to decide."

Personally that seems a very dismisive way to put it. He is fully aware the Scottish Court of Session is a higher court in the UK than the English High Court, which is why the Court of Session decision currently stands.
For a Unionist playing up England agrees with him and Scotland doesn't seems an unwise move at this time.
It does however fit the backdoor message theyhave been trying to get out since yesterday that the Scottish judges can't be trusted. }}

Quasi Farting is trying out the tired old 'experts are enemies of the people' bollox, straight out of the Daily Mail hymn sheet. I suppose the brexitconned still fall for all that guff. The rest of us can spot it a mile off.

I notice that Gove is refusing to hand over Cummings private messages probably due to the 'scandal' that Dominic Grieve alluded to. I wonder what the scandal is.

Operation Yellowhammer shows the devastation and actual bodily harm a no deal would cause, and a British PM is ok with it.

Still no action from Johnson on the making a deal front, its all just talk and counting down the clock. The sooner this joker and his poisonous mates are given the boot the better.

With those headlines Trump can be forgiven for thinking the British people love him.

{{ Boris is still saying he will get a deal, or at least that he thinks he will.

"We are working incredibly hard to get a deal. There is the rough shape of the deal to be done. I have been to talk to various other EU leaders, particularly in Germany, in France and in Ireland, where we made a good deal of progress. I'm seeing [Mr Juncker and Mr Barnier] on Monday and we will talk about the ideas that we've been working on and we will see where we get. I would say I'm cautiously optimistic."

It seems however his optimism is not shared by his EU counterpart-

'EU chief Brexit negotiator Michel Barnier said he did not have "reasons to be optimistic" over getting a deal.'- BBC

And despite MP's passing a law binding his hands on No Deal Boris continues to say things like, "I won't be deterred by anybody" and "I'd rather be dead in a ditch than ask the EU for another extension."

How he plans to get around the law he isn't saying.

Meanwhile rumours were swirling that the DUP were shifting position on the idea of some sort of border down the Irish Sea as has been recently floated by Boris and co as a means of solving the backstop problem, keeping NI in line with EU customs regulations but with a border with mainland UK - its been floated before by May and it was DUP opposition to it killed it.
If Boris can get the DUP to shift on this it would be a major game changer.
But for now it seems rumours are just rumours.
The DUP leader said, "Anonymous sources lead to nonsense stories."

That doen't mean Boris won't sell them out for a deal of course anyway. Unlike May their votes are currently worthless to him. }}

This just proof that just because you were born in a rich family, with all the connections that entails and have a extremely high level of education - it doesn't mean you actually know how to do something, you know like run a country.

keeping NI in line with EU customs regulations but with a border with mainland UK

So how's the fishing fleet in your area doing these days?
{{I seem to remember the W coast of Scotland has a long an honorable tradition of smuggling.... just sayin'.... }}

So how would Scotland feel about Boris' bridge? [Aside from the cost issue of course, butI suppose you could take a page from our President's playbook and get Ireland to pay for it ]

On Thursday, during a visit, the prime minister told schoolchildren: “[I was talking yesterday] about building a bridge from Stranraer in Scotland to Larne in Northern Ireland – that would be very good. It would only cost about £15bn.”

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/sep/15/boris-johnson-bonkers-plan-for-15bn-pound-bridge-derided-by-engineers

{{ It seems a logistical nightmare to me and the Irish Sea is not a very calm place!

But it has a chance of at least being taken seriously for one single reason.

Its part of what Boris sees as ways to counter the SNP and present a stronger image of a United Kingdom, literally physically uniting two troublesome parts of it together in this case.
It goes hand in hand along with plans to brand certain things with a union jack in Scotland to indicate some of the funding comes from Westminister and a raft of other proposals that at the extreme end go as far as choosing how the money Scotland receives from the Barnett Formula is spent in Scotland, rather than as now it going to the Scottish government who can then choose what they want to prioritise (if this had ben the case all along things like free prescriptions, extra spending on social care, green energy and off-setting the evil bedroom tax and a host of other beneficial things would never have happened- of course all these things make the SNP popular and contribute to their election numbers- something the Tories woud very much like to undermine).

Sometimes, sadly, a bridge is not just a bridge. }}

BTW my comment above about a proud history of smuggling was inspired by fond memories of hitchhiking around the Highlands and Islands 30-somthing years ago and finding little seaport villages with a only couple dozen houses, one pub, one shop and one large appliance store where visiting Russian trawlers could load up on widescreen TV's, stereos, dishwashers etc.

Ullapool had 3 or 4 large Russian fishing vessels in port when I visited. I'd swear there were more Russians in town than Scots, and they were using their forklifts and handtrucks to load up the vessels with everything imaginable not available at home. It was really exciting! I remember I got a free lecture from a local historian who gave me a lift about how Scottish smuggling had influenced history back to the American Revolution and earlier.

{{ Smuggling doesnt have much of a hold here, its not something I've heard much about in this area. Perhaps Nagual has heard otherwise but I've never heard it come up.
Probably because of where it is, its the entrance to the Clyde, there's nuclear power stations, several naval military bases, the UK's nuclear fleet and stockpiles and all sorts of other high profile stuff.
Our waters are pretty damn closely monitored round here and police boats patrolling are not an uncommon sight to see.
I'd be a brave or foolhardy smuggler I think who tried to weave their way through that lot.

The rest of the Scottish coast (of which there is about 6,000 crinkly miles worth) on the otherhand is a different story. }}

Pettytyrant101 wrote:{{ Its part of what Boris sees as ways to counter the SNP and present a stronger image of a United Kingdom, literally physically uniting two troublesome parts of it together in this case.
It goes hand in hand along with plans to brand certain things with a union jack in Scotland to indicate some of the funding comes from Westminister and a raft of other proposals that at the extreme end go as far as choosing how the money Scotland receives from the Barnett Formula is spent in Scotland, rather than as now it going to the Scottish government who can then choose what they want to prioritise (if this had ben the case all along things like free prescriptions, extra spending on social care, green energy and off-setting the evil bedroom tax and a host of other beneficial things would never have happened- of course all these things make the SNP popular and contribute to their election numbers- something the Tories woud very much like to undermine).

Sometimes, sadly, a bridge is not just a bridge. }}

I'm going to have to think on this a bit. I can see it's complicated, but are you saying that a bridge would in some way politically join Scotland and NI, not just physically? And if so, wouldn't it be just as possible that NI would be interested to join the SNP in wanting to remain in the EU?

Yes, armed patrol vessels do take much of the fun out of smuggling...

wouldn't it be just as possible that NI would be interested to join the SNP in wanting to remain in the EU?- Dave

{{ Theres a risk of that Dave, and a bigger risk were any IRA style trouble to flair up again a physical link between NI and mainland UK would become an obvious symbolic target.

But its not so much linking Scotland and NI politically as linking both in the mind more physically with England and Wales, all four then physically in contact as one union. Not two islands seperated by sea.

But yes, Boris is trying to paint this idea that he will restore the Union mainly by throwing things like this and money at various regions of the UK.
He has already announced various 'growth' deals for cities in the north of England for example and new transport infrastructure to link different cities with high speed rail networks and new roads or upgrades to existing ones.

Boris and his unionist pals in cabinet seem to think that part of the reason for the union falling apart is that Westminister has allowed the devolved governments to do too much by themselves, and from their point of view to take credit for things they feel should be given to Westminister because the money came from there, without mention of course of what Scotland contributed first to the coffers we get the handout from (hence the plan to control the spending of that money from Westminister so the SNP cant use it for anything they can then point to in an election as their success).
The problem of course is as I mentioned- much of what the SNP does with the money is the stuff people want them to do and which the Tories would never in a million years do- like free education, free prescriptions, social care spending etc. }}

Johnson has had a nice lunch in Luxemburg. That's it.

Tomorrow is one of the most important days in British political and legal history. Will the Supreme Court concur with the Scottish judges or will they fudge the issue. Either way the shit is going to hit the fan.

Oh that should be interesting! One of those decisions that you know is going to change history but you can't be certain exactly how, only that whatever you finally decide, there'll be a million people calling for your head