UK in/out referendum on the EU (Brexit vs Bremain)

Jacob Rees Mogg thinks he owns democracy, the mind blowing arrogance of the creep is astounding.

we are now being threatened with a military crackdown if we rebel at a no deal. Hola amigos, the UK is now Venezuela in the North.

{{ Well the cliff edge approaches.

The Irish PM, and Ireland remains a EU member of course, says if there is no backstop there is no deal as the EU won't ratify it, it needs all EU member states to sign off on it, and Ireland won't without the backstop. Even the possibility of a hard border between north and southern Ireland is unacceptable to Ireland.

May's main problem of course is that having the backstop is unacceptable to many of her own party who won't vote for her deal whilst its in the deal.
And then you have the DUP, the Northern Ireland Unionist  party who May needs the votes of to have a hope of winning. The backstop is unacceptable to them because anything which links north of Ireland with south more than it does Northern Ireland with mainland UK is unacceptable as it is seen as weakening the Union.

And we have what, two months to untangle that knot, a knot that despite endless talk not a single thread of it has been untangled since the referendum result. Don't fancy the chances much of May having the skills to weave her way through this in time. And that make sit more likely that Parliament will desperately agree to a bad deal at the last panicked minute just to avoid the cliff edge, which no one save Rees-Mogg's lot seem to think going over is a good idea.}}

https://www.facebook.com/www.JOE.co.uk/videos/281401902539275/

"Kick up the gallbladder" !!

"You've really fucked it for us all little one"
Loved that Vid Petty !!

Pettytyrant101 wrote:

that was quite brilliant.

The voices were a perfect match. Very impressive.

{{For those not keeping up with events- and I cant say I blame you- things have been moving apace in the UK political world- not moving ANYWHERE but they are going around in circles very fast!

OK so what's basically happening now is May is sticking to her plan that got historically defeated, that plan being- 'I'm sticking to my plan but will renegotiate the backstop terms to something Parliament will vote for, but I can't tell you how yet'. Europe is sticking to - 'the backstop is non-renegotiable there is nothing to tell you' and May has as a result delayed the vote in Parliament yet again pushing it back to the end of the month, so she can chase her tale again renegotiating the thing Europe say is not up for renegotiation.
This has left her open to the accusation her only actual plan is to force the vote back and back till its so close to the leave date that the only choices Parliament will face is back her plan or crash out with a no deal Brexit. Doing so in the hope she can get her plan through solely on the basis that it is the better of two evils.

This might you think leaves her and her government a tad vulnerable to the Labour opposition. But lest we forget this is Corbyns Labour- and its falling apart before our eyes. Instead of dealing with Brexit, instead of coming up with a plan of their own that is better, instead of challenging the Tories Labour are literally falling apart. With a total of 8 MP's having left the party to form a new centre ground political party. And more are likely to follow.

Their gripes appear to be bullying from the top of the party, not listening to the party members, not following through on the conference vote to push for a 2nd referendum on Brexit, and anti-Semitism within the ranks not being addressed by Corbyn.

Whilst Tories have not splintered into new parties, yet, they are just as divided however on Brexit and Europe and Reece-Mogg and his lot may as well be in a different party from Ken Clarke and his lot so wide is the gulf between them on this.

So in short we are now hurtling towards the cliff edge with no feasible plan, no solution to the border at N Ireland, and a PM trying to convince us she she can do a deal on something the other side say is already a done deal and can't be changed, and both parties are consumed with internal fighting, fracturing and naval-gazing and no one is steering the ship.

So looking good then! }}}

{{{Now three Tories have resigned to join the new party formed by the ex-Labour MP's! }}}

Wow!

Thanks for the update Petty!

I hope its the start of something big.

https://www.facebook.com/KillingBritain/videos/379114299533993/

if only

{{{{ So May has announced when she will give Parliament another vote on her departure bill- March 17th. Yup a full two weeks away and only 17 days before we are due to leave the EU.

Will it pass? Well thats very hard to say right now with so much going on.

But to try to break it down. Currently there are two or three rival bills trying to be the bill for disgruntled MP's to rally round. But basically they are all about the same thing- delaying the exit or taking a no deal exit off the table.
The difference between them is basically who gets to make the call.

One bill would favour Parliament taking over in the event the PM fails to make a deal by the 12th. The other sees the PM remaining in charge of the negotiations not Parliament but would let MP's extend the departure date by a pre-agreed amount of time, but not indefinitely.

So as it stands a 2nd referendum is the least likely out come.

A no deal exit is still very much on the cards, and desired by a section of May's Tory party led by Mogg and co, but is likely to be thwarted by Parliament seizing the reigns of the PM if it comes to the cliff-edge.

A delay is the most likely outcome as it stands now, though May is utterly against any delay in the departure date her hand might well be forced by goings on in Parliament. Or Parliament might take it out her hands completely.

So when it comes to May getting her deal through on the 12th its looking pretty shaky to say the least, however if she can come back from the EU with some sort of get out clause or time limit on the backstop then it is possible she might just get it through a Parliament willing to grasp at just about anything to get out of a No Deal exit. And a combination of that, and pushing the vote back as close as she can get away with to the departure date seems to be May's plan for success for her deal.}}}

she is going to plough on to the bitter end unless somebody in parliament stops her.

I would like to see what "Spitting Image" would have made of Theresa May


?

{{Sums up the 80's perfectly that demented Thatcher puppet!

Remember how the Labour MP's who quit cited among their reasons Corbyn not backing the Labour party Conference call for a 2nd referendum?
Well now he is. Complete u-turn but hey-ho now he backs a 2nd referendum if May fails to win her vote, apparently. I suspect this is a reluctant move on Corbyn's part in the face of potentially more deserters from his party.

Talking of which reports are a 'private' meeting between PM and disgruntled Remainers in her own party ended badly with up to 15 Tory MP's threatening to quit if May doesn't rule out a No Deal exit, including three ministers, one at Cabinet level. So far she shows no signs of budging on that, yet. But she is currently meeting, officially, with her disgruntled MP's right now and is due to make a statement in half an hour! So we shall see if this Lady is for turning or not. }}}}

{{{Update- May remains in a pickle! The meeting has finished, no statement yet, but 3 ministers say take No Deal off the table and extend Article 50 if necessary or we walk. And the leader of the DUP, upon whom May relies for her majority in the Commons, just said if May extends Article 50 the DUP won't back her! }}

{{Well May began her statement sounding very much like she wasnt for budging-

'Theresa May says the government is today publishing the paper assessing the UK's readiness for no deal.
"If we have to, we will ultimately make a success of no deal," she says, but notes the paper is an "honest assessment of the serious challenges it would bring in the short-term".
Mrs May says the government will table an amendable motion today for debate tomorrow.'

So still preparing for a No Deal, and even attempting to talk it up as something we can make a success of.
However she then went on to say-

'that in the case of the government losing the next meaningful vote, she is today proposing three further commitments:

A second meaningful vote will be held by Tuesday, 12 March at the latest

If the deal is voted against, a second neutral amendable motion will be voted on asking MPs if they support leaving the EU without a deal by the 13 March - "The UK will only leave without the deal if there is explicit consent for that outcome"

If Parliament rejects a no-deal option, there will be another vote on whether there should be "a short limited extension of Article 50" '- BBC

So a compromise then to keep her Cabinet and ministers on side- which seem sot have worked so far- she gets to say she is sticking to her position, but is basically conceding control to Parliament in the event her own deal fails to win the vote in the Commons on the 12th.
If she loses again she really is a lame-duck PM, as power over the most important political event in a long time will have been taken from her and passed to MP's. I dont see her staying on if that happens.}}

bloody hell on it goes Teflon Treeza fights another day.

{{ Well, it's finally crunch time - probably, more on that in a moment- tomorrow Parliament votes for a second time on Mays Brexit deal. If it passes we leave the EU on the 29th on that deal. If it fails then the following day is a vote on leaving with no deal, if it fails there will then be another vote the following day to extend Article 50 and push the leave date back form the 29th (which for the record is an arbitrary date May herself came up with it at the start of all this, believing having a departure date would appease her Brexitter part members and focus minds!).

So tonight May is off to Brussels for last ditch face to face talks in an attempt to get a deal that will answer the Irish backstop question among other things, and somehow satisfy enough of her own party and the DUP and probably some Labour and other party votes to pass tomorrow. Remember the first time she brought this bill it did not just lose, it was the biggest loss on a bill in over 150 years, it got hammered. She has to reverse over 200 votes here to win.
If it happens.
Rumours are swirling that there is a deal to put to Parliament, that there is nothing and ministers are scrambling to make the same deal sound different, that May will have the audacity to delay it once more and push it back again. That the 'meaningful' vote on the May plan will be watered down and instead MP's will vote on a vague bunch of assertions of what the government will seek to undertake before the 29th. Take your pick of possible "get out of losing this tomorrow" cards available!

Of course if she does win somehow the scale of such a reversal will secure her position through to at least the next election.
But the sensible money is on a loss. What happens to her after that, and the Tory party, is another question.

And in the meanwhile the 29th ticks ever closer with ever less sense anyone has any control or idea of what is going to happen when we get there. }}