Re: The Bigger, Badder, Even More Serious Thread

[Pettytyrant101]

{{ Part of the problem there Lance is the Westminster first past the post voting system- in Scottish or NI elections its worth voting for the smaller parties- thats how the Greens are in Parliament in Scotland, then of course we have the SNP and then the three Westminster parties- but for so long as Westminster and English elections are not pr it will remain a problem for English voters (And uk wide at general elections) faced with effectively a 2 party system.

Depending what the Tory party do now we could still have Boris as PM for a couple of months yet at worse before they have a new leader elected and in place. }}

[Pettytyrant101]

[Pettytyrant101]

[Mrs Figg]

Pie for PM.

[halfwise]

It all sounds so familiar.

[Pettytyrant101]

{{ I think that has my new favourite Pie line in it- "His CV reads like a demons résumé." }}

[Mrs Figg]

lets hope they can eject the fucker before October.

[Pettytyrant101]

{{ Well as it stands looks like our next PM will be Liz Truss- god help us! }}

[Mrs Figg]

yeah, but she is a gift to Labour. Sunak would have been harder to beat because he looks credible and talks well, even if he is a slimy bugger. She is just a scattergun Thatcher cosplay. She is as thick as mince.

[Pettytyrant101]

{{ I want to talk about the cancelling of Jerry Sadowitz from the Edinburgh Fringe Festival by the Pleasance Theatre, the stupid arseholes! Which gives some indication of my feelings on the matter. But you may be asking who the fuck is Jerry Sadowitz and why is Petty swearing like a right filthy fucking cunt? Well the answer to both is he is a comedian, possibly the most offensive comedian to every have lived, and incidentally he is also one of the best living magicians in the world and his shows are sell outs. His material has influenced a host of modern stand up, those in what could be considered the 'deliberately provocative and offensive' line of comedy. In the UK that includes comedians like Frankie Boyle, Jimmy Carr, Roy Chubby Brown (who Sadowitz refers to as 'the good cop to his bad') and Ricky Gervais. Sadowitz doesn't have a high regard in general however for many of these imitators of his style, from things he has said I surmise he feels they have stolen the be offensive for comedy bit, but missed the actual point of why he does it. They miss the art of it. He is quoted as having said of those he has influenced “I'm sorry I've given some very nasty people a good living.”


So why have so few people even heard of him? Well mainly by his own choice. He once had two shows recorded for DVD release, but pulled the plug on them before release, and he has any clips on youtube or the like or bootlegs copies of his shows pulled immediately, making it almost impossible to find his material online. His reason for this is that comedy realise on spontaneity and surprise, especially his blend of comedy, impressions, and of course magic, saying -."a very important element of comedy is surprise, and it can often make the difference between a show that works and one that does not". And he doesn't want audiences to first find him by watching a youtube clip or even a full DVD, as then he feels audiences would say he's a bit like Gervais, or a bit like Carr, or Boyle, and he'd hate that for the obvious reasons they are watered down versions of his own long standing convention breaking act.

Having seen him live when I was in Glasgow (where Sadowitz himself has lived since age 7) I can say he is one of the most mesmerizing acts, no tour de force performances I have ever seen, part Mad Hatter, but raving angry lunatic, part hate part love, part philosopher, all trickster and magician, he uses racist language and stereotypes in his jokes, sex and sexism, and throws the them in your face and judges you on your reaction, and its breathless and somewhat dazzling experience. And there is a reasonable chance you will see his penis at some point in the act, but it will be with a killer punch line and point. There are no limits at a Sadowitz show and that's largely the point of one, he will amaze you with magic make you roar with laughter, and make you as uncomfortable as you have ever been and leave you wondering what you laughed at, why and what it says not about him, but about you. Its that sort of clever show.

Perhaps best to give some examples, as I cant in actual footage descriptions from his wiki entry of his career shall have to suffice-

As a bet with fellow comic Nick Revell, he produced one of his most famous lines of that era: "Nelson Mandela, what a cunt. Terry Waite, fucking bastard. I dunno, you lend some people a fiver, you never see them again."

Sadowitz was knocked unconscious by an audience member during a performance at the Just for Laughs Comedy Festival in Montreal, where he mocked French Canadians, starting with the greeting "Hello moosefuckers! I tell you why I hate Canada, half of you speak French, and the other half let them. Why don't you speak Indian? You might as well speak the language of the people you stole the country off of in the first place."

His work with Murray took the form of sketches aimed at alienating almost everyone, with the duo stamping on a blow-up doll of the recently deceased Linda McCartney, and tipping Murray, dressed as Superman, out of a wheelchair into the audience (a reference to the paralysis of Christopher Reeve). At one show, Sadowitz spat in the face of a drunken heckler who was constantly interrupting the show. His final act was to strip naked and run across the stage, prompting a mixture of disgust and hilarity from the audience. The Herald newspaper described the show as featuring "Pyrotechnical swearing. Lavatorial straining noises. Wanton foodstuff-smearing. Simulated sodomy. Gratuitous adoption of Indian accents, plus spitting, shouting, and penile dismemberment".

Sadowitz joined the newly launched Channel 5 network, hosting his own panel show, The People vs. Jerry Sadowitz. he show led to the channel being reprimanded by the Broadcasting Standards Commission, after they concluded that the repeated use of the F and C words "had a cumulative effect that was both excessive and unnecessary".

a full-frontal nude shot of Sadowitz appeared in Esquire magazine as part of a 14-page "uncensored sex special".

Sadowitz sold out the Theatre Royal. He performed the show "Comedian, Magician, Psychopath 2: Because I Still Have to Pay the Rent" at the Edinburgh Comedy Festival in 2008. In this show he celebrated the 2008 Sichuan earthquake, making stereotypical references to Chinese people. In December 2008, Sadowitz sold out the Queen Elizabeth Hall on the Southbank, London.

Ive given you all this background to his career as its obvious to anyone booking him what you are getting. One of, if not the worlds greatnesses living close magic performers interspersed with the most offensive jokes and behaviour.

And that brings us up to the cancelling of his Fringe show after one night.
Here's what the Theatre has to say about doing so-

‘As previously stated, the Pleasance chose to pull Jerry Sadowitz’s second and final show.  Due to numerous complaints, we became immediately aware of content that was considered, among other things, extreme in its racism, sexism, homophobia and misogyny.
‘We will not associate with content which attacks people’s dignity and the language used on stage was, in our view, completely unacceptable.
‘A large number of people walked out of Jerry Sadowitz’s show as they felt uncomfortable and unsafe to remain in the venue.  We have received an unprecedented number of complaints that could not be ignored and we had a duty to respond. The subsequent abuse directed to our teams is also equally unacceptable.
‘At the Pleasance, our values are to be inclusive, diverse and welcoming.  We are proud of the progress we have made across our programming, which includes significant investment and support for Black, Asian and Global Majority artists, LGBTQ+ voices, those from working class backgrounds, and the strong representation of women.  We do not believe that racism, homophobia, sexism or misogynistic language have a place in our venues. 
‘In a changing world, stories and language that were once accepted on stage, whether performed in character or not, need to be challenged. There is a line that we will not cross at the Pleasance, and it was our view that this line was crossed on this occasion.
‘We don’t vet the full content of acts in advance and while Jerry Sadowitz is a controversial comedian, we could not have known the specifics of his performance.  The Pleasance has staged his work numerous times over the years, but as soon as we received complaints from those in the building which caused us great concern, we knew we could not allow the final performance to go ahead. 
‘The arts and comedy in particular have always pushed the boundaries of social norms but this boundary is always moving.  Our industry has to move with it. However, this does not mean that we can allow such content to be on our stages.’

This prompted a response from Sadowitz-

‘I don’t wish to humiliate The Pleasance but they are doubling down on their position and I don’t want to be made the victim of that.
‘I repeat... I did a 75-minute show for 600 people that went pretty well and left with no hint of anything going wrong.
‘In addition to now being told there were multiple walkouts and "abuse of staff" my act is now being cheapened and simplified as unsafe, homophobic, misogynistic and racist.
‘I am not J** D******* folks… a lot of thought goes into my shows and while I don’t always get it right, especially at the speed of which I speak… and I don’t always agree with my own conclusions(!)… I am offended by those who, having never seen me before, HEAR words being shouted in the first five minutes before storming out without LISTENING to the material which I am stupid enough to believe is funny, sometimes important and worth saying.
‘Additionally, there's a lot of silly, exaggerated irony and nonsense, real and exaggerated anger and bile, and even getting my dick out is for the purpose of the funny line which follows it. (No I won't tell you what it is… see the show for yourself… or better still... just stay at home). 
‘I ask nobody to agree with anything I say or do on stage... God forbid they should end up like me... and I have never ONCE courted a mainstream audience to come to my shows because guess what??? In real life, I really DON'T don’t want to upset anyone… including Anthony Alderson [director of the Pleasance].
‘The show is what it is, for those who enjoy it. The rest of you... please stick to Carry On films. 
‘PS: If the Pleasance can't apologise to me they should at least apologise to the 300 people who paid for and travelled to see the show on Saturday.’


I am with Sadowtz on this one. You don't triumph over anything with censorship- never have. And with Sadowtz its for a purpose, real points are made through his use of deliberate offence. Even getting his dick out- it was advertise don the tour poster! I don't blame some poor unsuspecting soul who walked into the venue thinking they were getting a friendly magic show, but I cant excuse the venue. As his career above makes clear they have to known what they were booking- when his poster says he will get his dick out you can't be offended when he gets his dick out. They booked him knowing his history and reputation as the best and most offensive comedian/magician out there.
And to reduce his act to racism ect instead of looking at how and why and to what purpose he makes use of such stereotypes and societal notions of race, is just cheap and unfair.

What makes it worse is this is the Edinburgh fringe- the largest art festival in the world, where for decades artists of all types have pushed at boundaries- nudity itself is commonplace in Fringe shows. But more it should be the last bastion of protecting artistic free speech and expression, not the first to shut it down.
Hugely disappointed and angry about this one. I find no difference in shutting down artistic expression, including those that may offend others, than I do in burning books some find offensive. And I can never support either.

Highly recommend reading Sadowtz article “Should Comedy Be Taken Seriously”-

https://www.chortle.co.uk/correspondents/2011/11/11/14299/should_comedy_be_taken_seriously }}

[Mrs Figg]

Those fuckers "feeling unsafe" need to grow up. I tell you what though I am increasingly turning to supposedly right wing media to actually get some push back on the current dangerous censorship infecting everything, strange bedfellows for me as I am on the left by nature and inclination, but the left has really let me down. I like Andrew Doyle Free Speech Nation segment on GB News He is totally reasonable and logical, and he is right about current dodgy censorship from people like the Guardian, I also have started to agree with Douglas Murray on most subjects. Its odd that they are both gay men who know that their rights are being attacked by current identity politics. I also agreed with Kemi Badenoch the Tory candidate about the so called culture war, which seems to entail people on the left telling everyone what to think. I also liken this to the toppling of statues, the bullying of academics and death threats to JK Rowling. Talking of "no debate" I also watched Matt Walsh short film on Youtube called "what is a woman" if blew my mind what goes on in America, some of the wingnuts on his film made my jaw drop. but other than that subject he is a twat, but he is right about this subject.
Its all the same shit. If they carry on like this the Fringe will just be an infantile kindergarten show with rainbow flags and balloons.

[Pettytyrant101]

{{ I wil never understand how someone can be made to feel unsafe whilst watching an act. Uncomfortable, sure, but unsafe? That implies harm, no harm is being done, they are jokes. Not to be taken seriously- the clue is in the fucking name! Taking of clues in the name the people who went to his show and got so offended had to first book tickets for his show- a show called The Not for Anyone Tour whose poster looks like this-



for a comedian whose entire career, whole reputation is around using offence as an art. If you book a ticket to see him, you know its going to be challenging, offensive, crude, and also thoughtful, insightful, satirical, and that you'll see some of the best magic tricks in the world. But dont go if you are easily offended.

As comedian Katherine Ryan put it- "Very strange to cancel someone's entire run for apparent offense when there's a content warning right on the booking page".

Stand up Richard Herring also commented that "To complain about him being offensive is like asking the actor who plays Macbeth to be arrested for murder."

I quite agree with them both.}}

[Mrs Figg]

Feeling unsafe is a buzzword which started in universities, kids mentally incapable of facing reality because it hurt their feelings. Probably due to suffocating parents not allowing children to develop.

[halfwise]

There's a reason I call myself a philosophical moderate, and we've seen it playing out recently. People are too complex to be encapsulated in any given doctrine, and left unfettered ANY given doctrine leads to extremism. The right and left have drifted far enough apart now that they can no longer engage in the type of dialogue that used to bring sanity back into play. Without that dialogue both are drifting further to the fringe and further from reality.

[Pettytyrant101]

{{ Since this started Ive been reading his Edinburgh Festival Diary, its sheer brillaince- heres some favourite bits with him talking about venues in Edinburgh-

The Stand

Another renowned venue, and the unfortunate scene of me getting punched onstage in 2014. All I’d done was use the entirely inoffensive line: ‘The entire Scotch nation are inbred Buckfast-swigging scum who shag their mums but really want to be bummed by George Osborne.’

Morningside Soft Play Centre

How was I to know a children’s play centre would not be an appropriate venue for my 1991 magic show, ‘Paul Daniels is a Fucking Midget Cocksucker’? The five-year-olds loved the magic and learned lots of new words. Just goes to show, parents don’t always know what’s best for their kids.

The Gilded Balloon

Legendary stand-up venue, with appearances by Peter Kay, Dylan Moran and Johnny Vegas, to name but a few. Sadly I was asked to find a different venue for my own show after explaining I would be removing a large Margaret Thatcher doll from my dilated anus, while encouraging the audience to chant, ‘Maggie Maggie Maggie, out out out!’







I am tempted to take a trip acorss to the Fringe, stand outside the Pleasance, lift my kilt and shove a Jerry Sadowitz doll into my anus, while encouraging the crowds to chant "Jerry Jerry Jerry in in in!"

ps one from Jery for the Harry Potter fans-

The sights of Scotland

When you’re not performing there’s loads to visit, even for a Scot like me. There’s Edinburgh Castle, The Royal Mile, and the Harry Potter magical guided walking tour. I regret going on that, because I discovered too late I’m not into snotty little fucking public school bastards loved by fucking tragic child-adults who can’t cope with fucking reality.

}}

[Pettytyrant101]

{{ I should note the irony of the fact that the Fringe Arts Festival was not originally part of the Fringe Festival. It is of course now the most popular part and the reason most folk go. But it only began becuase a bunch of anarchist artists and performers illegally broke into the original Festival and began putting on impromptu performances of boundary and sensibility pushing art in the street (and why there is such a prolific number of street performers to this day at the Fringe).
It began in artistic anarchy against the established mind set and it ends with cancelling an artistic anarchist comedian who challenges established mind sets. Very sad really. }}

[Pettytyrant101]

{{ Not sure if this is the article you got banned from Figg- https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/aug/16/jerry-sadowitz-cancelled-show-comedy-free-speech

I thought it was reasonably balanced, dont agree with it all but I felt his description of Sadowitz's act was decent-

'It’s important to note here that Sadowitz is a very different act from Gervais and Carr: low status, stubbornly niche, the connoisseur’s misanthrope. I dislike boorish comedy that punches down for kicks, and I appreciate it can be hard to spot the difference when an act only seems to be doing so – especially when they’re quoted out of context amid a hysterical media storm. But writing about the offensive comedy debate, Sadowitz has long been my go-to exemplar: if you’re as skilful as he is, if you take the pains he takes to contextualise the material, you can be as brutally unpleasant as you like without censure....

...He sets himself up as a hideous sad-sack of a human being, bitterly enraged at his own enfeeblement and the state of the world. Yes, the jokes are horrific, gasp-inducingly so. But the full package – a disturbo-charged portrait of hate and self-hate; an invitation to laugh at how deep into the gutter the human imagination can sink – is (when he’s on form, which he isn’t always) compelling. And, as distinct from Chappelle and Gervais, you’re not meant to admire this character’s opinions. You’re meant to be appalled by them.' }}

[Mrs Figg]

[Pettytyrant101]

{{ Whilst I dont disagre with everything that is said here I utterly despise the cheap low rent Fox news style and presentation and the influence of US style 'opinion' shows onto what are suposed to be our news channels. I also find some of what is said, the manner in which it is said, and most troubling the cheering of the right wing audience and to what they particularlly cheer at to be troublesome. }}

[Mrs Figg]

As a rule I would agree with you about GBNews, I dont watch any of their other content because it is defo right wing tosh, and it is the home of Brexit so by default I despise it. but I do agree with Doyle on the culture wars stuff as he is probably their least right wing commentator, what he says makes sense.

[Pettytyrant101]

{{ Found this very informative around the Mar-A-Lago/FBI thing, I like his videos and very useful for those of us at a distance from the intricies of US law. }}

[Pettytyrant101]

{{ Worst thing about this is its not even really satire }}

[halfwise]

For a moment there I thought I was gonna be treated to the Finnish PM. Ah well, I'll come back and watch it.

[Pettytyrant101]

{{ No, no dancing on tables or any of that sort of thing. I mean you cant have a PM who makes a fool of themselves, it reflects badly on the whole nation and means your country wont be taken seriously by anyone, the fact she is only in her twenties and an attractive woman has absolutely nothing to do with it! Although obviously you wouldnt catch a male PM acting like a total buffon and disgracing the nation.}}

[Mrs Figg]

That picture of him crushing an innocent kid in his mad desire to 'win' sums him up nicely.