Tales of Home [7]

azriel wrote:My son is almost 21 & he has to show proof of his age. It drives me up the fooking wall ! He goes in "GAME" to buy an Xbox game, hes got facial hair also, hes nearly 6ft, he looks old enough & its always........"have you got ID please ?"........Then its "muuuuuum !" & I have to stand at the till, ( give me the fucking game !) Ive snapped many a head off over this, its ticking me off & embarrassing & disrespectful to my son.

It's more annoying because more often than not the adult is buying the game for underage children anyway ( such as playing GTA and Medal Of Honor when you are 10 for example)

Ageing is a weird thing, I had a teacher at college who reguarly got I.D'd aged 34, whilst a guy I knew at secondary school could grow a full beard in year 9...

{{We don't have ID cards in the UK- war hang over- reminds people too much of Nazi's asking to see peoples papers.   Its seen as a civil rights issue. As a result for a long time it was pretty much down to the judgement of whoever was serving.
More recently its more common for folks to have other forms of ID- but as its usually only young looking folk get asked they tend to carry student cards ect which count as forms of proof of identity- and many places, especially pubs will have sign telling students no student ID card no service. Changed days from my own youth- I had my first Hogmanay pint aged 7, I was brought home drunk by the police for the first time at 13. I spent an entire night getting out of my skull on a 200 quid, 100 year old bottle of Islay malt aged 14 with my girlfriend of the time's stepfather whilst we moaned about how pissed at us our respective partners were going to be in th emorning (boy did I feel all grown up that night     ) At 16 our school disco was in a hotel (sadly no longer there) called the Rosegarth- with a full bar (and this was official school dance remember- the police turned up to make sure there was no trouble but made no attempt to stop the drinking, or close the bar) same happened for my school leavers dance- that was at Hafton House- it had 3 bars And when I was a kid was traditional at the annual Cowal Highland Games to give your kids a carry-out (a plastic shopping bag filled with alcohol) from about the age of 15 upwards, and to send them merrily on their way to enjoy the day getting pissed with their mates, it was a sort of right of passage- now you can get arrested on Cowal Games for just drinking in the street when you are legally old enough! }}}

malickfan wrote:(or 20 for you Americans...incidentally, has their been any discussion of lowering the drinking age stateside?)

Not much. The drinking was 18 between the '60s and '80s. It was lowered on the grounds that people who were old enough to vote and (if they were male) be drafted were old enough to drink alcohol. This was the same time that the voting age was lowered, again largely based on the draft argument. The drinking age was raised back in the '80s after the decrease was blamed for an increase in drunk driving-related fatalities. Mothers Against Drunk Driving (MADD) was the main lobbyist for increasing it and remains the main force against the idea of lowering it. A number of university presidents and administrators have made noise in recent years for lowering it again on the grounds that college kids will just drink in secret and that's more dangerous/harder to moderate, but it doesn't seem to have gained much traction.

Simulpost with Petty.

You guys have driver's licenses with photographs on them, do you not? That's the extent of photo ID for most Americans.

Alcohol enforcement used to be a lot more lax here, too. My dad tells stories sometimes about when he arrived at college (aged 17, when the drinking age was 18) and the university parked a tanker truck full of beer in the parking lot during orientation and let everyone have as much as they wanted.

Eldorion wrote:Simulpost with Petty.

You guys have driver's licenses with photographs on them, do you not? That's the extent of photo ID for most Americans.

Yeah, I don't drive and only have a provisional license for the rare time I.D is required, though I probably look about 12 in the photograph now so I really should get it updated or replaced with something else...

{{{{Not everyone has a drivers license (I don't) and driving whilst obviously hugely common is still seems less so than in the US, especially in small rural villages and towns where everything you need is within walking distance}}}

My license still has a picture of me when I was 16 on it. I just renewed it last year but they wouldn't let me take a new picture because of some law that states people under the age of 40 have to renew their licenses electronically, ostensibly to reduce wait times at the DMV, but which also removed the possibility of getting a new photo taken.

Fortunately I don't have to prove my age and it's a pretty decent picture but still.

Makes sense, Petty. Of all my friends and family I can think of only one person (a great-aunt) who doesn't have a driver's license, even though there are others who don't own cars or drive regularly. Car culture is definitely a huge deal here.

Eldorion wrote:Makes sense, Petty. Of all my friends and family I can think of only one person (a great-aunt) who doesn't have a driver's license, even though there are others who don't own cars or drive regularly. Car culture is definitely a huge deal here.

I've never been to the US (or abroad for that matter) but I've heard your public transport system isn't that great?

Eldorion wrote:

malickfan wrote:(or 20 for you Americans...incidentally, has their been any discussion of lowering the drinking age stateside?)

Not much. The drinking was 18 between the '60s and '80s. It was lowered on the grounds that people who were old enough to vote and (if they were male) be drafted were old enough to drink alcohol. This was the same time that the voting age was lowered, again largely based on the draft argument. The drinking age was raised back in the '80s after the decrease was blamed for an increase in drunk driving-related fatalities. Mothers Against Drunk Driving (MADD) was the main lobbyist for increasing it and remains the main force against the idea of lowering it. A number of university presidents and administrators have made noise in recent years for lowering it again on the grounds that college kids will just drink in secret and that's more dangerous/harder to moderate, but it doesn't seem to have gained much traction.

I'm don't want you to perceive this as an anti american rant (love you guys for the most part ...even if your politics baffles me most of the time ), but you can vote, own a house, drive, smoke marjuana, pay taxes and buy and shoot a shotgun at age 18 can't you? Yet you aren't judged mature enough to have a few quiet pints/fall down in you own cider induced sick in the park...

Most of the people I knew as a teenager had already done most of the heavy drinking by the time they turned legal, so it's not like everyone turns into a drunken idiot as soon as they are allowed into a bar on their own...

malickfan wrote:I've never been to the US (or abroad for that matter) but I've heard your public transport system isn't that great?

If you're outside (on the periphery) of a major metropolitan area, it's practically non-existent.

If you're in a metro area, it's probably massively shitty, though a little less so if you're in a city proper.

There are some exceptions.

Eldorion wrote:

malickfan wrote:I've never been to the US (or abroad for that matter) but I've heard your public transport system isn't that great?

If you're outside of a major metropolitan area, it's practically non-existent.

If you're in a metro area, it's probably massively shitty.

There are a few exceptions.

Well in fairness, frequency doesn't always equal great service or cheapness over here anyway...

malickfan wrote:I'm don't want you to perceive this as an anti american rant (love you guys for the most part ...even if your politics baffles me most of the time ), but you can vote, own a house, drive, smoke marjuana, pay taxes and buy and shoot a shotgun at age 18 can't you? Yet you aren't judged mature enough to have a few quiet pints/fall down in you own cider induced sick in the park...

Most of the people I knew as a teenager had already done most of the heavy drinking by the time they turned legal, so it's not like everyone turns into a drunken idiot as soon as they are allowed into a bar on their own...

Marijuana is still a Schedule 1 drug at the federal level, meaning it is considered to be worse than cocaine or meth. It's increasing acceptance at the state level is a very new thing, but I think the age of smoking (?) in those places is generally 21. Not sure how many banks would give a mortgage to an 18 year old either, but yes you can do all of those other things. Can't always rent a car or a hotel room until you're into your 20s, though; that's on the companies involved.

Most people here drink as teenagers to, it's not like the law is strictly enforced. There are built-in exceptions, too. Drinking at home is legal at pretty much any age, though obviously not all parents will permit it.

malickfan wrote:Well in fairness, frequency doesn't always equal great service or cheapness over here anyway...

I get that people everywhere will always complain about public transit, but like consider Baltimore. City of over 600,000 people. More than two million additional people living in the surrounding area. It has one subway line and one light rail line, which don't even intersect with each other. If you have to commute into the city to work, the vast majority of people have no choice but to drive. Bus service is too spotty to mean anything once you get past the beltway. The state recently spent millions studying the possibility of constructing a new subway line but the project got nixed before it even began.

Based on what I hear from my friends who live in the city, the situation there is pretty bad too (certainly the subway isn't much help), but I can't speak to that as much. On the other hand, the closest major city (DC) has a pretty great subway system in terms of spread, although they shut it down completely for over 24 hours in the middle of the week recently for inspections and will probably continue to close large sections of it to repair things that keep killing people. :/

I get ID'd fairly often, though not as often as I used to. I just turned 24 and I guess it'll continue for quite a while yet. I've always looked younger than I am, and it used to bother me to no end. Now I'm more relaxed about it - perhaps I'll be good-looking at 40, who knows

Eldorion wrote:

malickfan wrote:Well in fairness, frequency doesn't always equal great service or cheapness over here anyway...

I get that people everywhere will always complain about public transit, but like consider Baltimore. City of over 600,000 people. More than two million additional people living in the surrounding area. It has one subway line and one light rail line, which don't even intersect with each other. If you have to commute into the city to work, the vast majority of people have no choice but to drive. Bus service is too spotty to mean anything once you get past the beltway.

Jaysus

Is it partly a culture thing do you think?

That's the spirit, Ringo.

Malick, could be. The proposed second subway line that just got squashed was killed by the new Republican governor for largely budgetary reasons, though the project did have major flaws with no clear solutions. Because so many people drive (especially wealthier, more-likely-to-vote people) there's less political pressure for improved public transportation. And there's the racial element: some people are always afraid that building new subway lines into the suburbs will result in undesirable (read: black) people visiting the 'burbs and causing "trouble" of some sort. This is an unfortunately common view that crosses party lines among white suburbanites.

Eldorion wrote:
Malick, could be. The proposed second subway line that just got squashed was killed by the new Republican governor for largely budgetary reasons, though the project did have major flaws with no clear solutions. Because so many people drive (especially wealthier, more-likely-to-vote people) there's less political pressure for improved public transportation. And there's the racial element; some people are always afraid that building new subway lines into the suburbs will result in undesirable (read: black) people visiting the 'burbs and causing "trouble" of some sort.

If few people are perceived to be using the current subway then I suppose that position does make some sort of sense...though this goes back to my comment about your politics baffling me sometimes

Yeah, it's a weird situation. With gas cheap again and the bogeyman of dependence on foreign oil reduced, it's even less likely to be fixed in the near future.

malickfan wrote:
I'm don't want you to perceive this as an anti american rant (love you guys for the most part ...even if your politics baffles me most of the time ), but you can vote, own a house, drive, smoke marjuana, pay taxes and buy and shoot a shotgun at age 18 can't you? Yet you aren't judged mature enough to have a few quiet pints/fall down in you own cider induced sick in the park...

I think the fact that you can vote, drive, smoke, and buy a shotgun are awfully good reasons to not allow an 18 year old to drink....

But I do agree, it's a little silly, and everyone will drink in college. I'd actually advocate for moving the voting and shotgun to a bit older, as most really aren't ready for these responsibilities right out of high school. But driving, in this country, it has to be early.

malickfan wrote:

Eldorion wrote:

malickfan wrote:Well in fairness, frequency doesn't always equal great service or cheapness over here anyway...

I get that people everywhere will always complain about public transit, but like consider Baltimore. City of over 600,000 people. More than two million additional people living in the surrounding area. It has one subway line and one light rail line, which don't even intersect with each other. If you have to commute into the city to work, the vast majority of people have no choice but to drive. Bus service is too spotty to mean anything once you get past the beltway.

Jaysus

Is it partly a culture thing do you think?

Many cities had very good public transportation in the early 20th century, but the big auto and tire industries got together and started buying up the individual public transit systems and phasing them out, especially passenger railroads and trolley systems, at the same time they were lobbying heavily for the interstate highway system and other surface road upgrades. What followed was the golden age of the American automobile and the slow death by strangulation of public transportation.

Good point, Dave.

Convincing the government to pay for roads while leaving railroads the financial responsibility of individual companies was probably the lobbying coup of the century.

Eldorion wrote:Blue - if only I had any musical talent whatsoever.

Ah, damn. I still can't decide. Because it's both fun to have a small bouncy guy as the bassist and have the smallest guy in the group be the drummer. (The guy in the front is obviously the lead singer songwriter.)

Ah, guys. Come on. Help me out.

malickfan wrote:

Eldorion wrote:Thanks Malick; I hear that at work a lot. At college I brushed it off cause I figured people had a reason for assuming I was the same age as everyone else but I guess I do.

I didn't know if I could grow a beard until I tried; I'm not totally satisfied with where it is but once other people started calling it a beard instead of just an attempt at one I was fairly happy about it.

I had sideburns when I was 17-18 (though that was partly down to having long hair for ages and not even realising I was growing them ) but I've never even attempted to grow a beard (male pattern baldness and ginger facial hair, yay what a great combination! ) I'd say looking old for your age is normally an advantage (I was still getting I.D's until very recently) though I find it hard to believe I'm already 24...

people always think i am way younger than i am. with the right hat i look 14. this weekend someone asked if i was born in 97 and then kept guessing DOWNWARDS?? like "oh, so in 98? 99?" and i was like no... 94 and the dude was "omg you're the same age as me?!" i guess he thought i was a russ... even though i didn't have red overalls and was the only one there drinking red wine... lol

Eldorion wrote:My dad seems to grow even more facial hair the more he loses on top, but I dunno if that's the norm. Ginger beards are badass, though.

Is getting ID'd when you're obviously over 16 (or 18 or whatever) uncommon in the UK? Most places around here tend to ask people for IDs until they're clearly in their 40s or later, even though the drinking age is 21.

you're always obliged to show ID here when buying alcohol. but sometimes when you're just at the normal store buying beer and 1) the casheer reqoginzes you since you've been there before buying beer or 2) they know you or 3) you look old they don't ask. i bought bath-tub scrub-cream thing to clean the tub and a six-pack, didn't ask for id...