Re: Doctor Who [12]

by Nagual Thu Nov 12, 2015 11:08 pm

halfwise wrote:"It's all smoke and no knickers."

Sounds like my kind of girl. Throw in some rock music, a seedy bar and I'm sold! Very Happy

by Mrs Figg Fri Nov 13, 2015 12:24 am

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Yes but they don't deliberately keep highlighting it in dialogue and character and camera shots- which they have been clearly and deliberately doing so in every story-
Spoiler:

And so it goes on, up to and including th elatest epiosde the Zygon Inversion-they have been deliberately highlighting 12 and Clara and his sense of imminent loss, its been playing on his mind- and above are just a few form the opening episodes of the bigger stuff- there is lots more subtle stuff, single lines, looks the camera deliberately focuses on at key or poignant or meaningful moments relevant to this theme. Its the very definition of an underlying running theme.

they are highlighting all this stuff because Jenna Coleman is leaving. its not really a theme its more of a not so subtle flagging up of her imminent departure.

by Pettytyrant101 Fri Nov 13, 2015 12:35 am

its not really a theme - Figg

Oh its definitely a theme- there are whole fan theories doing the rounds out there about what it means (current favourite

Spoiler:

which potentially ties in with lines of dialogue in several episodes).

'they are highlighting all this stuff because Jenna Coleman is leaving'

This is also true. Moffat works with what he has- in the case of companions leaving there is no way to keep it from the press. Moffat is perfectly aware that by the time the show is broadcast and his audience watches they are already aware she is leaving (you'd be hard pushed living in the UK not to know even if you don't watch- it has been in every newspaper and entertainment website and even on the news)
I think under those circumstances of being denied the element of surprise he does the only sensible writing option left, he incorporates in some fashion that sense of imminence into the storyline. He works with and uses the audience knowledge instead of pretending its not there.

But the means by which he has chosen to do this this series is the above mentioned themes running between Clara and 12.
One does not exclude the other, rather they are designed to compliment one another.

by Mrs Figg Fri Nov 13, 2015 12:43 am

Nagual wrote:
halfwise wrote:"It's all smoke and no knickers."

Sounds like my kind of girl. Throw in some rock music, a seedy bar and I'm sold!

Doctor Who [12] - Page 8 Tumblr_m1ekg3QCLG1qlkx6do5_250_zpsxfmmfust

by Forest Shepherd Fri Nov 13, 2015 4:17 am

Oh Mrs. Figg! Laughing

by azriel Fri Nov 13, 2015 9:51 am

Good for her !

Doctor Who [12] - Page 8 Emily-aimes-high-emily-the-strange-23690090-338-240

by malickfan Fri Nov 13, 2015 1:15 pm

http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/tv-radio/74015253/doctor-who-calls-on-sir-peter-jackson

http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2015-11-13/there-will-be-romance-between-the-doctor-and-river-song-this-christmas-says-peter-capaldi

Details on eps 9-12, synopsis for 'Hell Bent' BIG SPOILERS:

Spoiler:

...looks like a certain rumour about the finale may be true...

by Pettytyrant101 Fri Nov 13, 2015 1:22 pm

Im avoiding spoilers and its been excellent doing so this series with no clue what might be coming next. I highly recommend it.

Not sure I'd entirely trust the PJ article- it finishes by saying- 'also one of the producers behind Sherlock, also voiced interest in a Doctor Who crossover with the recently announced new Star Trek television series' which in fact is pretty much the exact opposite of what Moffat actually said!

by Mrs Figg Fri Nov 13, 2015 1:26 pm

malickfan wrote:http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/tv-radio/74015253/doctor-who-calls-on-sir-peter-jackson

http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2015-11-13/there-will-be-romance-between-the-doctor-and-river-song-this-christmas-says-peter-capaldi

It gets worse and worserer.

by Mrs Figg Fri Nov 13, 2015 1:31 pm

Spoiler:

Face the Raven looks brilliant. Razz

by Pettytyrant101 Fri Nov 13, 2015 1:32 pm

Id ignore the Pj article- its made up of a mix of false information, errors and old news.

As to romance with River- I should bloody well hope so they are man and wife! I am actually very mucj looking forward to how they work together- both mature actors at the peak of their skills. Should at least be a lot of fun to watch together.

by Mrs Figg Fri Nov 13, 2015 1:36 pm

pukearama

by Pettytyrant101 Fri Nov 13, 2015 1:38 pm

No pukerama was him falling in love with a 20 year girl from earth with no life experience and a limited lifespan and was just really creepy and inappropriate.

by Mrs Figg Fri Nov 13, 2015 1:40 pm

no creepy and inappropriate was him hanging round playgrounds traumatising young girls.

by Pettytyrant101 Fri Nov 13, 2015 1:44 pm

Where did he do that? He met young Clara there but he was watching her whole life to see if she was some sort of trap for him, as she seemed otherwise an impossible event.
He met the Zygon leaders in a playpark because they were disguised as children- in neither example is there any hint of anything else going on outside of your unpleasant thoughts on the matter.
With Rose its quite clearly a romance and presented as such within the script and performances- an inappropriate one at that. Highly inappropriate.

by malickfan Fri Nov 13, 2015 2:00 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:No pukerama was him falling in love with a 20 year girl from earth with no life experience and a limited lifespan and was just really creepy and inappropriate.

Frankly I find most if not all of the romance storylines in Who forced, pointless or trite, I watched a panel with Doctors 5-8 and they all pretty much agreed it was unnecessary and mostly detrimental to the character (or at least their versions of him) and the companion as well-what exactly could he offer a 20 year girl in terms of commitment or a stable relationship? He's a millennia old eternal wanderer, a man who's destroyed whole planets, killed people and ran out on his own family, at times it's hard enough to see how his human companions can relate to him as friends, it's harder to see why they'd fancy him, seems kinda cliched and overshadows the relationship between the companion and Doctor i.m.o

My favorite companion from New Who is Donna (and Clara with 12) becuase she isn't in wuv with him, and actually challenges the Doctor on his morals.

by Pettytyrant101 Fri Nov 13, 2015 2:06 pm

'Frankly I find most if not all of the romance storylines in Who forced, pointless or trite'- Malick

Id agree with the general sentiment here- I preferred my Doctor to seemingly have no interest in love. But one of the things I like about the River storyline (apart from Alex Kingston performances) is that it kind of solves the problem- it gives the Doctor a (largely) offscreen wife rendering redundant and unnecessary any romance plot lines with companions. I see it as useful in that regard.

'My favorite companion from New Who is Donna (and Clara with 12)'

Clara has been moving up my list of fav NuWho companions since 12 arrived on the scene.

I think right now my rating would be-

1. Donna
2. Amy and Rory
3. Clara
4. Martha
5. Rose

and if I get to include Wilfred as a companion then he bumps Martha and Rose down Nod

by malickfan Fri Nov 13, 2015 2:19 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:
With Rose its quite clearly a romance and presented as such within the script and performances- an inappropriate one at that. Highly inappropriate.

I kinda liked the way it was hinted at when it was 9 and Rose-he was suffering after the Time War, she's sort of a rebound girl for him, the first person he grew close to after the war, who taught him to like himself again, I don't think it was love exactly between the two, but there was a spark, almost like a uncle/niece thing.

On the other hand I hated the Rose/Tennant romance stuff (I haven't watched any of those eps in years so this rant is based off memory)

Very smarmy and sure of itself, cliched and casting its shadow over Tennant's tenure long after it should have.

The Doctor spent a series moping around after her departure (and often treating Martha (who couldn't just be a friend, nope she had to fancy him immediately as well Rolling Eyes

) quite badly as a consequence) and seemingly compared every single person he met to her, then she turns up again in Series Four being bitchy and arrogant Evil or Very Mad

and is congratulated by everyone else 'Oh My god he found you!' cries Martha, for having a happy ending, given her own Doctor clone of her own.
Rolling Eyes

People say creating the War Doctor was a wasted regeneration, but i.m.o creating Handy just for the purpose of a cheap cliffhanger and giving Rose a happy ending was much more indulgent and self congratulatory.

Some may find it a love story for the ages, I found it cliched, intrusive and it put the interesting character that Rose was in Series 1 on a pedestal.

At least River (who I'm not overly fond of either) as a older, mature time traveller from the future challenges the Doctor intellectually and comes across as mysterious as he is, flitting in an out of his life randomly, allowing the Doctor to remain an unattached wanderer for the most part, it's probably the closest New Who has come to an actual romance storyline, and yet it's the most unconventional...

by malickfan Fri Nov 13, 2015 2:22 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:'

1. Donna
2. Amy and Rory
3. Clara
4. Martha
5. Rose

and if I get to include Wilfred as a companion then he bumps Martha and Rose down

My ranking would be

1.Donna
2. Clara (Series 8 onwards)
3. Amy and Rory (I haven't seen half their episodes, and I like Rory rather more than Amy, so they may swap with Martha if I ever get round to rewatching the series)
4. Martha
5. Wilf (I'm not sure if he counts)
6. Rose (Series 1)

7. Rose (Series 2 onwards)

by halfwise Fri Nov 13, 2015 2:25 pm

I think most older man/younger women 'romances' are more a case of loving protectiveness from the man and the feeling of safety a young woman gets from being with a well established man. It's almost parent/child and I don't think the term 'romance' should be used. Though love is definitely there the whole dynamic is different from the case of two people who constantly challenge and surprise each other as equals. A different term is needed.

The physical element is sort of a side car to this type of relationship, so should not be implied in a Dr Who context where the parent/child aspect is stretched beyond normal reality.

by halfwise Fri Nov 13, 2015 2:27 pm

Yeah, 'uncle/niece' is a better comparison.

by Pettytyrant101 Fri Nov 13, 2015 2:29 pm

At least River (who I'm not overly fond of either) as a older, mature time traveller from the future - Malick

She also has personal connections to the Doctor- she is the daughter both of his two best friends at the time and (possibly more importantly to the Doctor) of the TARDIS. And she is also 'Timelord'- ok artificially accelerated by Kovarian from the basic starting point of being conceived whilst in the vortex, but still Time Lord. Given the Doctors loss of his people (and at the point he embarks with River he still believes he wiped out all his own people) its understandable why he would be interested in her.
You can see what would draw him in. I don't see anything about Rose which would do so.

Halfy- Its definitely love with Rose- thought the script just stops the Doctor short of saying 'I love you' to her by cutting of his transmission on the key word. But its very, very clear its meant to be a romance. Rose even gets given a clone human Doctor to go off and have her romance with (but in typical Rose fashion to just seems to have dumped him somewhere and gone back to obsessing over the real Doctor).

by malickfan Fri Nov 13, 2015 2:40 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:

(but in typical Rose fashion to just seems to have dumped him somewhere and gone back to obsessing over the real Doctor).

I always liked the fan theory the Metacrisis Doctor would come back as the Valeyard Twisted Evil

Did she ever apologise to poor Mickey?

If you have heard them, I like the way they handled romance in the Charley/8 audios (the first companion/doctor romance storyline overall I think), Charley confesses her love for the Doctor, he does the same before travelling to the Divergent Universe, Charley follows him and calls out the Doctor on it, he denies it and states it was a spur of the moment mistake, they kinda brush it under the carpet from that point onwards, but it still seems to be there, unsaid.

by Pettytyrant101 Fri Nov 13, 2015 2:52 pm

'I always liked the fan theory the Metacrisis Doctor would come back as the Valeyard'- Malick

Interesting idea- I had not considered that.

'Did she ever apologise to poor Mickey?'

I'd be surprised if she remembers his name! If someone ever writes a guide book on how to treat people like shit in a relationship Rose and Mickeys should be the prime example in chapter 1.

by Pettytyrant101 Fri Nov 13, 2015 5:55 pm

In light of last weeks epiosdes I thought Id put up NuWho's big Doctor speeches-

9

(Not really a speech so much a defining statement for that Doctor- 2.58 for actual bit)

(speechy bit starts at 1:47)

(9 at his finest)

10 (surprisingly hard to find vids on youtube of 10's speeches- presumably because they tended to be much the same 'I am the Doctor, I'm amazing, I'll save you all' the end. )

11

12

(1.45)

(1.53)

Honorable mention- Rivers speeches-