Waiting for 'The Battle of the Five Armies' [2]

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Post by feanor 1999 Sat Nov 29, 2014 12:17 pm

Ayup Eldo...

Which of course points to an optimum length for the whole book of Two films and not three. This makes the BO5A just an 'Epilog' (streets of san fransisco spelling, LOL) to the other films and of course as such, pointless.

Using the Screentime wasted on the 'Six-Flags' footage to Esgaroth, that of trying to coat Smaug in Gold and the Nazgul tomb guff at Dol Guldur would have given enuff time to make a neat, if not perfect ending to the book. Sorry, second film. Gandy seeing and fighting Sauron wouldn't have been such a big deal, as Gandy does mention somewheres either in TH or the appendices having driven the evil influence of the Necromancer from Dol Guldur. But just a waste of time from beginning to end.

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Post by Forest Shepherd Sat Nov 29, 2014 10:49 pm

Wouldn't it be wonderfully bizarre if we all walked into our respective theatres in a couple weeks here and thoroughly enjoyed Battle of the Five Armies?

It would be such a surreal experience--simply enjoying every part of the film-- that it would almost make the last two films mediocrity worthwhile, as they would have set up this lovely surprise ending to the trilogy.

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Post by Mrs Figg Sat Nov 29, 2014 10:52 pm

yeah bizarro Nod
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Post by Forest Shepherd Sat Nov 29, 2014 10:57 pm

And utterly preposterous, unfortunately.

But.

What if we could will ourselves to fully enjoy the film? I could bring along my favourite snack-food (smuggled in of course, because theatres are evil and hate people who bring in their own food), go with my favourite people and maintain an extremely positive outlook on adaptations, Tolkien, Jackson, and life in general.
It might work!

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Post by Eldorion Sat Nov 29, 2014 11:44 pm

I don't think I can make myself enjoy something, but I tried to give AUJ and DOS the best possible chance at impressing me by seeking to keep expectations in check, coming to terms with many of the changes in advance, and with DOS trying to avoid book comparisons altogether.  But I just don't think they're good movies.  Mediocre pretty much sums it up (though some technical elements are considerably above mediocre). Shrugging
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Post by parzival Sun Nov 30, 2014 12:41 am

The very first trailer for AUJ with the Dwarves singing brought tears to my eyes.  I really thought we were returning to that magical film experience.  Leaving the theater after AUJ I was actually mad and a bit bewildered.  Desolation of Smaug in HFR 3D however was a blast, and I remember laughing so hard I couldn't breathe.  The moment where Thorin is running around Erabor, flying up and down giant holes on chains, riding on the Dragon's nose, and finally catching up to the other Dwarves only to say "The plan isn't going to work" had my friend and I in absolute hysterics.  I thought maybe that was the punchline to a 5 hour joke Jackson had devilishly masterminded.  

So realizing that BOTFA is basically going to be like the barrel scene on crack, I find myself actually excited to see it.  Excited to see how messed up it is.
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Post by Eldorion Sun Nov 30, 2014 2:11 am

I think what I'm most curious about, personally, is the "political" content in BOFA that's been mentioned in interviews and the recent Empire special. This is probably just an empty buzzword meant to convey a greater sense of gravity to the film, but I find myself wondering what Jackson and Co.'s politics actually are. I recall that before DOS PJ said that there would be political commentary of some sort there, which I assume referred to Lake-town. But the only messages I could discern were "totalitarianism is bad" and "gun control sucks if you really need to get your hands on a weapon with which to murder someone in vengeance". The first is so widely accepted as to be almost tautological in most countries, and I'm still not sure if the latter was even intentional.

Edit: I know some people have argued that the political message in DOS is some sort of vaguely Occupy Wall Street anti-1% thing, but I don't see that all. Certainly, the Master in the book was an stand-in of sorts of greedy politicians in the real world (which is not the same thing as greedy bankers), but the message was completely changed in the film. The Master in the book is avaricious and corrupt; the Master in the movie is mini-Stalin.
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Post by bungobaggins Sun Nov 30, 2014 4:59 am

Eldorion wrote:but I find myself wondering what Jackson and Co.'s politics actually are.

I do know from the DOS EE extras that PJ would probably be considered a liberal, which kind of goes without saying for someone in show biz. I remember him telling Stephen Colbert to "give the Tea Party hell" or something like after Colbert and his family finished visiting the set (this was before the 2012 election IIRC).

So yeah, the liberal side does not seem to jell well with the "weapon control" aspect of the movie. The OWS angle doesn't make any sense to me either.

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Post by Eldorion Sun Nov 30, 2014 5:04 am

That's to be expected I suppose. Razz So yeah, the only two interpretations I can make of DOS' "political" elements are that either PJ thought that he had preserved Tolkien's critique of greed and corruption, or he thought that "Stalinism sucks" was a profound enough statement that it merited some exploration through social commentary in a movie about dwarves who kill orcs with barrels.
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Post by bungobaggins Sun Nov 30, 2014 5:12 am

Well, I guess I'm fabricating narrative about the production/filmmakers when I say this, but I think that there was nothing "deep" or "interesting" in this movie, so PJ was just grasping at straws during interviews. All he says is that there will be "some sort of commentary" about "something in Laketown." How descriptive. And of course, he's not going to come back and explain what he was doing, or what the "social commentary" is.

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Post by bungobaggins Sun Nov 30, 2014 5:13 am

I hope he tackles the topic of abortion in BOFA.

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Post by Eldorion Sun Nov 30, 2014 5:16 am

Laughing

I'm just not really sure why it ever came up in the first place, but now I'm seeing it in a bunch of places. The only people who read contemporary political messages into the LOTR movies were the sort of nutters who thought that "The Two Towers" was a 9/11 reference. So I'm left wondering why politics is now being pushed as a selling point for The Hobbit.
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Post by Eldorion Sun Nov 30, 2014 5:26 am

Also, earlier I was searching for the initial PJ quote about politics in DOS, but I got distracted from trying to find it when I stumbled upon this dude's blog via Google.

http://overmanwarrior.wordpress.com/2013/12/30/the-desolation-of-smaug-a-gift-that-only-mythology-could-give-a-film-of-great-importance/

I would say that seeing The Desolation of Smaug is the most important commentary on modern politics that is available to anybody on planet earth presently.  A student of politics, philosophy, and social organization could watch MSNBC, Fox News, Politically Incorrect on HBO and achieve a doctorate in psychology, history, and political science—read all the books by Glenn Beck, Bill O’Reilly, and Charles Krauthammer—listen to talk radio for the next 10 years, and there would not be a more accurate summation of the state of our world than in this Hobbit film.  The simple line of dialogue between two of the elf characters in the film upon deciding if they should fight on behalf of light or let the world fall to darkness was uttered by, “when did we let evil become stronger than us.”  That is what almost every human being is facing on the very day that you are reading this—what are the consequences of living our lives away from the light?  How does evil spread?  And what do we do about it when we are confronted with it?

He tagged that post with #down the rabbit hole, and oh boy does it get stupider the deeper you go.

http://overmanwarrior.wordpress.com/2012/12/28/gandalf-for-president-glenn-beck-talks-about-the-hobbit/

There are a mere handful of films over Hollywood’s history that do what The Hobbit has done, films like It’s a Wonderful Life, The Sound of Music, and of course Star Wars, that so accurately captures the hopes and dreams of our society and paints a picture that is so clearly understood.   The Hobbit is a special film because it steps up and over the many evil forces that desired with drool running down its mouth to stop goodness from being shown to a mass audience for the inspiration toward good that would fill the minds of millions with hope.  The Hobbit provides genuine assurance without the distraction of obvious religion to separate the mind from the contents of a powerful story.  It is in this way that evil finds that it cannot advance easily upon the minds of man—when those minds can see it coming a mile away, The Hobbit teaches in story form what that evil looks like and how it works so it can be seen in reality.  That is why I love Gandalf so much, because he is able to assemble all the parts of the story to work toward an aim to thwart the work of evil, even when those evil doers are his own friends.  Gandalf knows enough to protect himself with a simple Hobbit while he goes on his crusade on behalf of the good.  And now audiences everywhere can do the same.  This is why I most identify with Gandalf, and somehow I think that Peter Jackson does too.  Jackson might tell the public that he is a simple Hobbit, so that he can make his films, but his mind is like that of Gandalf—a master manipulator on behalf of a good that nobody can yet see—but only the wise master of all things, a mediator between Heaven and Earth and crusader for everything that is good, and an enemy to all that is evil.

So by now you can probably tell that this guy has quite the hang-up with regards to evil, but what exactly does he consider evil?  Well...

http://overmanwarrior.wordpress.com/2013/12/31/dol-guldur-spitting-in-the-eye-of-evil/

As some may be mystified when I make a lot to do about certain types of movies and I rate them exquisitely high, and then seemingly trail off into a different more contemporary direction for the next series of writings, there is a good reason for it.  My wife and I have a number of hobbies we share together, she does a lot of personal crafts–and reads a lot, I read, write, and practice bullwhips—but one thing that we share intensely is a study of evil and the various forms it takes in society.  We have intense discussions about parallel universes, and the numbers for infinity contemplating how evil manifests between dimensional planes and grabs lives into this little four-dimensional space we all share on earth.  We make a point to see how evil burrows its way between the lines of reality like the roots of weeds and finds its way around a sidewalk brick and goes around solid objects rather than through them.  I have often compared our waking world to a 24 frame per second movie—what we view we accept as our reality—however we are really witnessing 24 independent pictures per second which our mind paints together into a functioning comprehension.  What exists between frames 18 to 19 or 20 and 21 is a black empty bar separating the pictures from one another which our minds ignore so that we can accept the reality presented in the framed pictures.  Often evil lives and comes into our lives in those black spaces, it comes into our minds because we cannot behold two separate realities presented on the same metaphorical film strip at the same time—so we often accept the pleasant pictures of existence rather than try to understand what isn’t so pleasant.  It is in that understanding that my wife and I share an intense passion and also gives insight into a world that is acting upon us—but is otherwise invisible.

Clear as mud.  So what can we do to counter the extra-dimensional evil threatening to destroy America?

http://overmanwarrior.wordpress.com/2013/01/30/the-power-of-myth-going-east/

My often lengthy discussions about the importance of Star Wars in the future of our world is not rooted in escapism fandom or a simple love for fantasy fiction—but in the understanding of what eludes many about the power of mythology.  Many years ago I read what has been one of the most important books I have ever read titled The Hero With A Thousand Faces.  It is a book that is filled to the brim with truths hidden to civilization over thousands of years.  The book is the explosive result of Joseph Campbell’s foundation study of comparative mythology and religion.  Anyone who has come to know anything knows that all things about human culture begin with those two issues.  Politics, economics, art, science—virtually everything begins with religion and a culture’s mythology.  When an enemy of any people wish to destroy another culture they most effectively do it not with bombs and chemical weapons of mass death—they do it by destroying the culture of those people.  As I look around America, I see clearly that the culture of America is under attack, so I look toward mythology to make the repairs and that is when Star Wars comes into play for me.  The video below is about an hour and a half long and is well worth watching if it has not yet been seen.  It explains much about Star Wars and Joseph Campbell’s influence on the creation of that modern mythology and shows how important a simple story can be to the unification, and strength of a mature culture.

Clearly we all just need to sit down together to watch Star Wars and LOTR and we'll ascend to a higher plane of enlightenment.

This is why Star Wars is so important and why the study of mythology is more important than even the study of physics, medicine, or mathematics.  Without a proper mythology a society degrades quickly into a formless blob.  This is also why Star Wars is about to hit a critical mass that will transform society in ways that nobody can yet see coming—except the very, very few who understand the work of Joseph Campbell and the first comprehensive study of 100,000 years of human evolution done in the history of mankind.  It all starts with the very great book, The Hero With A Thousand Faces published in 1949.

As for the people at the Joseph Campbell Foundation, I love those people.  They may have found my interpretations of Joseph Campbell destructive to their personal philosophies, but they’ll get over it once they learn for themselves the truth on their own blissful journeys through their individual lives.  The members as they were in the 90’s I’m sure are not the same as the people who run it now.  They are some of the closest people on earth to being enlightened individuals who actually are beginning to understand some of these difficult concepts, so I forgive a lot to those who actively try.  You can learn more about them at their website seen below:

I've spent almost an hour on this guy's blog tonight; he's just too great. Laughing

Waiting for 'The Battle of the Five Armies' [2] - Page 25 VXmMowJ
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Post by bungobaggins Sun Nov 30, 2014 5:45 am

ohmygodwhatthefuck.png lol!

I love those people. They may have found my interpretations of Joseph Campbell destructive to their personal philosophies

Translation: I love those people; they hate me.

My wife and I have a number of hobbies we share together, she does a lot of personal crafts–and reads a lot, I read, write, and practice bullwhips—but one thing that we share intensely is a study of evil and the various forms it takes in society. We have intense discussions about parallel universes, and the numbers for infinity contemplating how evil manifests between dimensional planes and grabs lives into this little four-dimensional space we all share on earth. We make a point to see how evil burrows its way between the lines of reality like the roots of weeds and finds its way around a sidewalk brick and goes around solid objects rather than through them.

Those aren't fucking hobbies. Crafts are hobbies, music is a hobby, repairing old cars is a hobby. Your stupid little pseudo-intellectual escapades are not hobbies.

The Hobbit is a special film because it steps up and over the many evil forces that desired with drool running down its mouth to stop goodness from being shown to a mass audience for the inspiration toward good that would fill the minds of millions with hope.

Yeah boi, cuz those movie studios don't want to make billions of dollars. Which is why The Hobbit was completely abandoned after it was in development hell for several years. Oh, wait. They'd do anything to see those movies completed and released to the public to drool over. Well, look who's drooling now.

God, this guy just makes me want to slap him.

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Post by bungobaggins Sun Nov 30, 2014 5:46 am

Eldorion wrote:

Waiting for 'The Battle of the Five Armies' [2] - Page 25 VXmMowJ

I expected a neckbeard and fedora. I must go to bed disappointed. Sad

To think with all the bull-whip stuff he would be obsessed with Indiana Jones. I guess not. Shrugging

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Post by Eldorion Sun Nov 30, 2014 5:47 am

His videos are great too. I'm in tears here. lol!



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Post by Eldorion Sun Nov 30, 2014 5:49 am

bungobaggins wrote:I expected a neckbeard and fedora. I must go to bed disappointed. Sad

To think with all the bull-whip stuff he would be obsessed with Indiana Jones. I guess not. Shrugging

Yeah, I was kinda surprised that he didn't fit some of the stereotypes that sprung to mind, but I guess that was a little unfair of me.

Sleep soundly, knowing that we have the power of Star Wars to save us from communism.
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Post by bungobaggins Sun Nov 30, 2014 5:58 am

They see me whippin', they hatin'.

Waiting for 'The Battle of the Five Armies' [2] - Page 25 6C5UpHP

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Post by Eldorion Sun Nov 30, 2014 6:04 am

Waiting for 'The Battle of the Five Armies' [2] - Page 25 2dPuX

That GIF deserves usage as a reaction/description GIF.
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Post by bungobaggins Sun Nov 30, 2014 6:14 am

I love the little look he gives the camera at the end. Like: "Hey did you see all that?"

Eldorion wrote:That GIF deserves usage as a reaction/description GIF.

HIFW I enter Target on Black Friday.

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Post by Eldorion Sun Nov 30, 2014 7:17 am

I was reading some of his more recent blog posts and unfortunately he seems to be just a bog-standard Randian (by way of Glenn Beck) most of the time.  I wanna hear more about how The Hobbit is going to save us from the metaphysical dangers of collectivism, not listen to his ranting about liberals and minorities. Sad

I couldn't help but laugh when he said that he opposes the LGBT rights movement because of The Rocky Horror Picture Show, though.  That zooms right past Glenn Beck and into something close to Hal Turner levels of cray-cray.
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Post by feanor 1999 Sun Nov 30, 2014 1:18 pm

Ayup...

All I did was wonder if this guys wife was 'into' Whips as well. Shrugging :carrot:

'Only in America'. Thats why we love it.

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Post by Mrs Figg Sun Nov 30, 2014 3:18 pm

gimme moar!

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Post by malickfan Sun Nov 30, 2014 8:07 pm

I don't see the similarity myself:

Waiting for 'The Battle of the Five Armies' [2] - Page 25 Gothmogbotfa

But It wouldn't surprise me if Jackson went this route, I vagugely remember someone posting a set photo of Gothmog's face mask in one of the Hobbit makeup trailers (this was early 2012 so it is possible it might have tied into the Dol Guldor plot-after all we know alot of footage was either dropped or reshot was the film three film change)

(source: http://www-images.theonering.org/torwp/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/gothmogbotfa.jpg)

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Well, that was worth the wait wasn't it  Suspect


I think what comes out of a pig's rear end is more akin to what Peejers has given us-Azriel 20/9/2014
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Post by feanor 1999 Sun Nov 30, 2014 8:15 pm

Mrs Figg wrote:gimme moar!

Waiting for 'The Battle of the Five Armies' [2] - Page 25 Face-first_zpsphvykzhz

This GIF looks the pinnacle of this girls existance... How sad. In, believe it or not, a non-taking the piss way...

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