Doctor Who [9]
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Re: Doctor Who [9]
by Pettytyrant101 Wed Sep 03, 2014 9:42 pm
Daleks in Manhatten was way better than Into the Dalek thats for sure. Pigs or no pigs. That was when Daleks were interesting.- Figg
Sows how different viewers can be- for me the Daleks in Manhattan human/dalek stuff is pretty damn poor and not a little embarrassing and it isnt really about anything.
Into the Dalek has a pretty deep character study going on of both the Doctor and the potential for good in a Dalek, an entirely new concept to Who.
Sows how different viewers can be- for me the Daleks in Manhattan human/dalek stuff is pretty damn poor and not a little embarrassing and it isnt really about anything.
Into the Dalek has a pretty deep character study going on of both the Doctor and the potential for good in a Dalek, an entirely new concept to Who.
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Re: Doctor Who [9]
by Forest Shepherd Wed Sep 03, 2014 9:46 pm
Intended pun on the pig theme?Pettytyrant101 wrote:
Sows how different viewers can be- for me the Daleks in Manhattan human/dalek stuff is pretty damn poor and not a little embarrassing and it isnt really about anything.
Honestly I really need to watch Into the Dalek, being behind everyone else for discussion is the worst!
Edit:
I know it's just a short preview and that I should be wary, but that Robot of Sherwood looks potentially delicious!
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Re: Doctor Who [9]
by Pettytyrant101 Wed Sep 03, 2014 9:50 pm
I'm always wary of a Gattis episode!
But I think after the tone of the first two episodes a light one is in order.
But I think after the tone of the first two episodes a light one is in order.
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Re: Doctor Who [9]
by Forest Shepherd Wed Sep 03, 2014 9:56 pm
Oh no is that the writer?
Well, fingers crossed.
It was the setting and new theme that enticed me.
Well, fingers crossed.
It was the setting and new theme that enticed me.
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Re: Doctor Who [9]
by Pettytyrant101 Wed Sep 03, 2014 9:59 pm
Yea its Gatiss first for 12.
Still I didnt mind his last one the Crimson Horror, it was his best since the Dickens one for 9.
So hopefully this one will be up to scratch.
Still I didnt mind his last one the Crimson Horror, it was his best since the Dickens one for 9.
So hopefully this one will be up to scratch.
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Re: Doctor Who [9]
by Mrs Figg Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:05 pm
Pettytyrant101 wrote:Daleks in Manhatten was way better than Into the Dalek thats for sure. Pigs or no pigs. That was when Daleks were interesting.- Figg
Sows how different viewers can be- for me the Daleks in Manhattan human/dalek stuff is pretty damn poor and not a little embarrassing and it isnt really about anything.
Into the Dalek has a pretty deep character study going on of both the Doctor and the potential for good in a Dalek, an entirely new concept to Who.
deep character study? my arse.
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Re: Doctor Who [9]
by Pettytyrant101 Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:14 pm
I thought it was.
- Spoiler:
- It explored the Doctors prejudice and hatred and how it defines his actions, and as done since he first met them on Skaro in the shows second story- I thought that bit in particular was insightful when he says it was then he realised what being the Doctor meant, it meant not being Dalek. He has defined himself through his hatred of them.
And the idea that a Dalek is capable of good but is prohibited by design from it is also new and interesting and opens up all sort of future possibilities with dalek stories, including the possibility of a return to the Dalek factions of classic.
What was Daleks in Manhattan about again?
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Re: Doctor Who [9]
by Mrs Figg Wed Sep 03, 2014 11:56 pm
- Spoiler:
- actually Into the Dalek has used and cannibalized a lot of the themes of Daleks in Manhatten, namely the possibility of a 'good' Dalek. Sec the human Dalek hybrid has an infusion of humanity as he initially proclaims that he now feels human traits like 'ambition, hatred, aggression, genius for war. All of which are also Dalek traits too. (Not far off from the Dalek in Into the Dalek telling Capaldi he would make a good Dalek because he is filled with hatred). Tennant struggles to accept the idea of a good Dalek, you can actually see part of his worldview shatter when good Dalek tells him the deaths of the Hooverville residents were wrong, he tries to forget everything the Daleks have ever done to him and embrace the possibility, however remote, that it represents something genuinely new. (It reminds of Capaldi trying to get the Dalek to remember beauty, only Tennant was more convincing. That exchange represents an optimistic moment in what is generally a story defined by the Doctor’s anger toward his enemies and his struggle to look past all the evil they have done to the universe in general and to him in particular. yeah thats a Deep Character Study.
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Re: Doctor Who [9]
by Pettytyrant101 Thu Sep 04, 2014 12:02 am
- Spoiler:
- That misses the point of Rusty. Sec was a human Dalek hybrid (a fairly silly looking one too! But its Who so Ill forgive it that). The point of Rusty is he (or she) is pure Dalek. And for my money Capaldi is the best quality actor to have taken the role in NuWho, and I say that as a huge Matt Smith fan, but the nuances of 12's reactions throughout that episode, whether its turning away when the solider offers to sacrifice herself for the others, or begging Rusty that there must be more than hate in him to see, I thought the performance was pitch perfect at every turn, the inner turmoil beautifully played in subtle gestures
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Re: Doctor Who [9]
by Mrs Figg Thu Sep 04, 2014 1:13 pm
- Spoiler:
- at the moment Capaldi has less nuances than Eccleston
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Re: Doctor Who [9]
by Pettytyrant101 Thu Sep 04, 2014 1:56 pm
I rate Eccy a lot in terms of performance, but he was more obviously quirky I would say rather than nuanced.
With Capaldi for me its all in the small facial expressions, the looks, and in how he holds himself. I love in-particular the way he uses his hands, its oddly alien without being similar to Smiths elaborate arm gestures. And I particularly like the stillness of him at times, I find he is hard to take the eyes off when on screen, he seems to fill it and command it.
With Capaldi for me its all in the small facial expressions, the looks, and in how he holds himself. I love in-particular the way he uses his hands, its oddly alien without being similar to Smiths elaborate arm gestures. And I particularly like the stillness of him at times, I find he is hard to take the eyes off when on screen, he seems to fill it and command it.
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Re: Doctor Who [9]
by Mrs Figg Thu Sep 04, 2014 2:20 pm
Nah. Eccy could run the gamut from cheeky and geeky to truly dark and ruthless in the blink of an eye. he was believable in all his emotions. and everything in between. From Capaldi I have seen a lot of tics, over compensating, and forcing things. he isnt yet in his skin as the Doctor. He is very good but he isnt masterful. yet. His stories and dialogue are a bit lacking probably due to Moffat getting tired and stretched because of other committments and its the end of his run. If Capaldi gets better material he may knock it out better. I have faith in him.
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Re: Doctor Who [9]
by Pettytyrant101 Thu Sep 04, 2014 2:41 pm
I think Capaldi will grow more in the role for sure, but he is already shaping up to be, for me, the first fully true classic era style Doctor of NuWho.
11 was well on the way, but I feel with 12 we are getting the real deal in terms of the Doctor.
11 was well on the way, but I feel with 12 we are getting the real deal in terms of the Doctor.
- Spoiler:
- Its why I really liked the idea in Deep Breath that the Doctor had been presenting a younger face to the universe because he was hiding from himself. This is also added too by the cell scene in the 50th when War Doctor asks his other selves why they have to talk and act like children, and they just look at him.
12 doesnt have to do that any more. Gallifrey is no longer on his consciousness, he no longer has to pretend to himself or others.
He wasnt a good man when he started, Galifryeans aren't really, Time Lords aren't really. What changes the Doctor is being given a moral dimension by interaction with certain humans.
12 just seems to accept that- he went off somewhere on japes between the 1st episode and the 2nd for 3 weeks, but when he has a moral dilemma facing him he just accepts he is not equipped for it and goes and gets Clara to act as his conciousness for him. "Yeah she's my carer, she cares so I dont have to.'
Its a Doctor not very much bothered any more with the pretences.
10 and 11 were always saying sorry, but they never meant it, they knew fine well how it goes. Wherever he is involved, wherever he even saves the day, people will die.
12 seems to have accepted that as fact of his life. I like that growth, it was long overdue.
When Gretchen chooses to sacrifice herself to save the others and 12 turns away with that look on his face I could actually here in my head the exchange form Good Man goes to War between Vastra and the Doctor over the dying soldier.
"She was very brave."
"They always are."
Its not that 12 doesn't feel the sadness, or the pain, or value the life, its just that he has finally accepted it as part of the consequences of his choice to break the biggest law in his society- to interfere.
And I got all that sentiment, emotion, and understanding of the character in that one look- thats why I think 12 will become something special.
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Re: Doctor Who [9]
by Pettytyrant101 Thu Sep 04, 2014 8:33 pm
What folks views on 12's seeming dislike for soldiers? Especially in light of some of his past friends and companions such as the Brig, Harry Sullivan ect
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Re: Doctor Who [9]
by Amarië Thu Sep 04, 2014 8:45 pm
11 wasn't too keen on soldiers either, neither were 9 or 10. But I get the feeling 12 doesn't dislike them, rather that they are too much like him and he wants to change. 9 to 11 disliked the actions they did and 12 is more about the way they think. Maybe.
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Re: Doctor Who [9]
by Pettytyrant101 Thu Sep 04, 2014 8:53 pm
Thas very true.
Even 3 when he was working with UNIT did tend to go of on rants every so often at the military mind and their impulse to shoot and blow things up (in particular the first ever Silurian story comes to mind here).
Also if you look at his recent past-
Even 3 when he was working with UNIT did tend to go of on rants every so often at the military mind and their impulse to shoot and blow things up (in particular the first ever Silurian story comes to mind here).
Also if you look at his recent past-
- Spoiler:
- Time War, unknown amount of time on the front lines but long enough to go from young to old by the end- about 300 years thinking he killed everyone during which time he meets Rose and loses her, Donna, and screws her head up, Amy whose life he destroyed- and then the events of the 50th happened, which he sorted out but first had to be reminded of the Time War again and relive parts of it again- then straight off to Trenzalore to spend about 1000 years, his entire life span again, defending the people there against, well everyone else pretty much which believing he was finally going to die and it would all end in ruin no matter what.
I can kind of see why 12 doesnt have much time for more military, he has been one for rather a long time and never wanted to be in the first place.
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Re: Doctor Who [9]
by Mrs Figg Thu Sep 04, 2014 8:59 pm
I think he is afraid he is too much like them for comfort. After all here is a guy who regularly declares war on whole species of beings, whether they deserve it or not, he uses a stealth machine the Tardis, has total say on who lives or dies, regularly sacrifices beings for expediency, has Daleks say he would make a good one, war follows him round through time and space, (War Doctor) has military friends like Strax, has connections to military organizations like Unit. pretty much a soldier for all intents and purposes. The only thing he doesnt use are conventional weapons. So its hypocracy of him to refuse soldiers to be his assistant. He is one.
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Re: Doctor Who [9]
by Pettytyrant101 Thu Sep 04, 2014 9:05 pm
I agree entirely its hypocritical and with the reason you and Amarie give. To much like travelling with a mirror.
'war follows him round through time and space'
Thats also pretty much what the internet guy says too about him in Rose, when she is trying to find out more about the Doctor.
'war follows him round through time and space'
Thats also pretty much what the internet guy says too about him in Rose, when she is trying to find out more about the Doctor.
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Re: Doctor Who [9]
by Mrs Figg Sat Sep 06, 2014 8:26 pm
- Spoiler:
- well I knew it was going to be Blackadder without the humour or charm, and thats what we got. Clara once again upstages the Doctor. She is vibrant and at long last excited to go anywhere in time and space with the Doctor. Theres lots of cheesy meaningless dialogue, it wants to be a romp, the Sheriff wants to be Alan Rickman, but its just not. Capaldi looks uncomfortable doing everything, its as if he hasnt committed to it yet, or he doesnt like the material, dunno, it just doesnt gel. it was enjoyable enough I guess
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Re: Doctor Who [9]
by Pettytyrant101 Sat Sep 06, 2014 8:37 pm
- Spoiler:
- Fuller thoughts later but I thought it was a romp- just good straight forward fun and I thought Capaldi nailed the humour in it. One of Gatiss better episodes in my view by not going for the serious
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Re: Doctor Who [9]
by Mrs Figg Sat Sep 06, 2014 8:44 pm
- Spoiler:
review from SFX, Richard Edwards. totally agree with his analysis.
''The ambiguity of this less jovial Doctor has been one of the most satisfying things about series eight, with the fact that you never know what he’s going to do next adding extra fizz to the drama. In the first two episodes it didn’t matter that he was rarely likeable, because his wit and brains made sure that the inner Doctor shone through. That’s not the case here – he’s a fool, with that trademark intelligence nowhere to be seen. Sure he’s been arrogant before. Yes he’s missed the blindingly obvious. But rarely has the Doctor been an idiot, as he frequently is here. When he’s not acting like a petulant 2000-year-old child sparring with the Robin Hood he refuses to believe is the real deal, he’s making questionable decisions and doing little to save the day – only when he encourages the slaves in the castle to turn on their robot overlords is he the one making things happen.
It’s a good job that Jenna Coleman’s brilliant Clara has come into her own this series. She’s a crucial anchor for the show – no longer just acting as the Doctor’s conscience, she’s his brains now too. Indeed, the biggest mystery about this episode is why Clara would choose to travel anywhere with the Doctor – the dynamic here is a fun, intelligent woman hanging out with an unpleasant, crazy uncle, and it’s difficult to believe.
While the episode is clearly going for lighthearted romp territory, it never quite hits the target. If you’re doing silly, the jokes have to work, but little in “Robot Of Sherwood” raises more than a light titter. Robin and his Merry Men are supposed to be annoying, we get that, but they don’t have the gags to balance it out. Ben Miller’s Sheriff of Nottingham has all the menace of a pantomime villain – how we’d love to have seen the Alan Rickman version facing off against the Doctor.
Some redemption comes in the final scene as Robin and the Doctor have a poignant natter about the things they have in common, the nature of a hero and the importance of creating a legend. But this episode is a disappointment, the wrong Doctor in the wrong episode. Hopefully next week he’ll get back to being as intriguing as Capaldi has hinted he can be. Otherwise it’s a waste of a wonderful actor,''
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Re: Doctor Who [9]
by malickfan Sat Sep 06, 2014 8:46 pm
- Spoiler:
- I agree partially with Figgs, it was a fun enough ep I suppose, defintely not a classic or bad, but it didn't really feel like it was written for Capaldi or have any purpose (more of a filler episode IMO)-just ticking boxes, I'm actually getting kinda bored with mock historical's, I really enjoyed the pure historicals of Hartnell (The Aztecs and The Romans being two of my favourite stories) and I'd like to see them return. It felt more like a Tennant ep (a family friendly romp with a few pop culture references) than any recent ones (whether that is good or bad is up to you), Clara continues to grow on me, and I kinda like the fact she's upstaging the Doctor, I felt with Smith and Tennant he became a magical god in a box, I like him more when He's fallible and mysterious.
Capaldi continues to impress me with his subtle performance, but I'd agree it dosen't really feel like they've found his character yet-he's curious and nervous one minute, then cold and arrogant the next, it's performed very well, but very unevely. Capaldi has stated this was intentional, but such a gradual movement might backfire I guess, considering the three prior doctors more or less arrived fully formed in terms of character. Maybe Moffat hasn't got in the mindset of writing for a different Doctor yet, or maybe he's miscast (he isn't IMO, though Mcoy certainly was...).
Unlike the prior two episodes I think this was the perfect length for the story it was trying to tell, though I'm not sure if that was a good thing or not, perhaps the story wasn't strong enough to merit any more time?
Overall, very fun episode, family friendly story but nothing that memorable. I was pleased to see the Sonic reduced to a background use, but once again another five minutes wouldn't have gone amiss-how did they escape the shackles in the prison? And isn't it a bit convinient the robot lasers can incinerate people but bounce off plates?
My family, who never warmed to Smith or Moffat's storytelling have so far thoroughly enjoyed all three eps, and this is definitely shaping up to be one of my fave seasons so far.
6.5/10 though I'd rank it higher in terms of enjoyment.
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The Tauriel: Desolation of Canon December 2013 (Accurate again!)
The Sod-it! : Battling my Indifference December 2014 (You know what they say, third time's the charm)
Well, that was worth the wait wasn't it
I think what comes out of a pig's rear end is more akin to what Peejers has given us-Azriel 20/9/2014
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Re: Doctor Who [9]
by Pettytyrant101 Sat Sep 06, 2014 8:51 pm
- Spoiler:
- I dont think it was a classic Malick- I just thought it was a good fun romp that if you were sat down with your 6 and 7 year olds would be a very entertaining 45minutes of family tv- and its important Who does that too, and its partiualry important I feel with this Doctor- with next weeks going back to being a scarier darker toned episode by all accounts I think it was absolutely right to do an episode like this now, epsecially coming after two fairly heavy themed episodes.
Figg if we are comparing reviews I'd be more inclined toward this one myself-
'Zounds! What a dazzling episode! I didn’t have hopes. The Doctor crossing swords with Robin Hood and his Merrie Men seemed a daft notion, and the photos and clips of Tom Riley (raven-haired heart-throb from Da Vinci’s Demons) in a dodgy flaxen wig didn’t help. But how wrong I was. Robot of Sherwood is one of the most charming episodes in eons.
Masterly Mark Gatiss has fashioned an elegant, hugely witty script that delivers a coherent plot and everything you could want from an encounter with Robin Hood'- RT
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Re: Doctor Who [9]
by malickfan Sat Sep 06, 2014 8:52 pm
Mrs Figg wrote:
- Spoiler:
review from SFX, Richard Edwards. totally agree with his analysis.
''The ambiguity of this less jovial Doctor has been one of the most satisfying things about series eight, with the fact that you never know what he’s going to do next adding extra fizz to the drama. In the first two episodes it didn’t matter that he was rarely likeable, because his wit and brains made sure that the inner Doctor shone through. That’s not the case here – he’s a fool, with that trademark intelligence nowhere to be seen. Sure he’s been arrogant before. Yes he’s missed the blindingly obvious. But rarely has the Doctor been an idiot, as he frequently is here. When he’s not acting like a petulant 2000-year-old child sparring with the Robin Hood he refuses to believe is the real deal, he’s making questionable decisions and doing little to save the day – only when he encourages the slaves in the castle to turn on their robot overlords is he the one making things happen.
It’s a good job that Jenna Coleman’s brilliant Clara has come into her own this series. She’s a crucial anchor for the show – no longer just acting as the Doctor’s conscience, she’s his brains now too. Indeed, the biggest mystery about this episode is why Clara would choose to travel anywhere with the Doctor – the dynamic here is a fun, intelligent woman hanging out with an unpleasant, crazy uncle, and it’s difficult to believe.
While the episode is clearly going for lighthearted romp territory, it never quite hits the target. If you’re doing silly, the jokes have to work, but little in “Robot Of Sherwood” raises more than a light titter. Robin and his Merry Men are supposed to be annoying, we get that, but they don’t have the gags to balance it out. Ben Miller’s Sheriff of Nottingham has all the menace of a pantomime villain – how we’d love to have seen the Alan Rickman version facing off against the Doctor.
Some redemption comes in the final scene as Robin and the Doctor have a poignant natter about the things they have in common, the nature of a hero and the importance of creating a legend. But this episode is a disappointment, the wrong Doctor in the wrong episode. Hopefully next week he’ll get back to being as intriguing as Capaldi has hinted he can be. Otherwise it’s a waste of a wonderful actor,''
I seem to have enjoyed it more than the reviewer, but I actually agree with most of this review, anyone else feel it came to early in the season? We've gone from dark, brooding and fairly intriguing to silly forgettable family territory, if you are going to do both, wouldn't it be better to balance it out across all episodes? I'm not sure yet if Moffat has figured out where he wants to take Capaldi's character, not saying that's a bad thing, it just seems kinda wrong footing after his (over)confidence with Smith
I would have loved to see Colin Baker's doctor in this ep come to think of it, he'd never admit to being such an idioit and would probaly take it all much too seriously.
_________________
The Thorin: An Unexpected Rewrite December 2012 (I was on the money apparently)
The Tauriel: Desolation of Canon December 2013 (Accurate again!)
The Sod-it! : Battling my Indifference December 2014 (You know what they say, third time's the charm)
Well, that was worth the wait wasn't it
I think what comes out of a pig's rear end is more akin to what Peejers has given us-Azriel 20/9/2014
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