Sherlock - BBC [4]

Amarië wrote:I was avoiding commenting on the things like the you-need-a-woman-to-be-complete weirdness (John nearly broke out in a musical song and dance number) and Lady Love 'cause I was trying to focus on good things about the episode, and hope after the next episode it would all seem less like too many plot bunnies had been hastily stuffed together in a too small box.

he didn't say woman, he merely spoke of that romantic bit, someone special. but john basically described himself, he made sherlock want to be a better man .. also john might be talking about irene, but irene is gay (!!) and i think the sad look sherlock got on his face is not because of her...

you just described every episode of every show Moffat has written. - Figg


{{except I haven't- the fact you can work out the resolution from clues spread through the first 2/3 is by definition the exact opposite of coming up with the solution with no previous precedent in the last third!
I could name you probably half a dozen Moffat penned episodes off the top of my head where the clues are all there for the viewer. Its his writing style- he enjoys intricate plotting and rug pulls and you can't achieve those without careful planning and setup- clues and red herrings. Its what makes him so suited to writing Sherlock and why its so popular. To pretend otherwise just to have a dig at Moffat is to ignore the facts of almost everything he has written in the last decade.}}}

Norc wrote:this is the greatest lovestory never told, quoute the writers.

they're gonna kiss on sunday. i am right. just. face it.

ok

Pettytyrant101 wrote:you just described every episode of every show Moffat has written. - Figg


{{except I haven't- the fact you can work out the resolution from clues spread through the first 2/3 is by definition the exact opposite of coming up with the solution with no previous precedent in the last third!
I could name you probably half a dozen Moffat penned episodes off the top of my head where the clues are all there for the viewer. Its his writing style- he enjoys intricate plotting and rug pulls and you can't achieve those without careful planning and setup- clues and red herrings. Its what makes him so suited to writing Sherlock and why its so popular. To pretend otherwise just to have a dig at Moffat is to ignore the facts of almost everything he has written in the last decade.}}}

not going there.

{{{I dont think they will kiss personally- I reckon they will leave it open to interpretation, as they have been doing. So those traditionalists (not sexual moral wise but Holmes wise) can preserve their view the love is solely platonic between a non-sexual person and a hetrosexual. But at the same time they will continue to leave enough suggestion, ambiguity, and possibilities to appeal to the shippers. But I may be wrong- as many of the things Norc has highlighted over time are there either in the script or the sub-text, and that is in keeping with Moffats preference for thematic narrative. }}}

i think they'll go all the way. the gays have been waiting for this for far too long. what's historic about not making it 'explisit'? yes.. they have been quoted as the final episode being historic, can't remember the exact wording but i think maybe it was the bbc twitter or something asking fans if they were ready to do something historic.

(also, Sherlock has for the last hundred years been (in my opinion) mis-interpreted as asexual or non-sexual, due to the fact that his sexuality is either not mentioned or undermined. why? because he is a gay man, and at that time it was illegal)

Or maybe it was because Victorians never mention sexuality...unless it's in their naughty little novels, and then they go ape-shit.

Not only didn't Victorians mention sexuality, they would have been mystified by it. The concept as we know it didn't exist until Freud invented it about 1900. Before that sex was an activity not a defining characteristic of a person, rather like smoking or drinking. A quick word search shows that the word is almost nonexistent until after WWI and doesn't really enter popular culture until about 1965.

I think they should just solve crimes and leave sex out of it.

Spoken like a true Victorian!

No I think they should just solve crimes & leave it as a mystery. Who needs to know ? I don't need to know. I enjoy seeing Sherlock work, I like watching Watson be fascinated at how Sherlock solves the crimes, I like seeing it all come together. That's what I liked about previous Sherlocks, like good old Basil Rathbone ! It was all he thought about, solving the crime & that's all I need. All this Gay, Bi, cross, whatever is too intrusive, too modern. I'm an old stick in the mud, I like Holmes to be.....a mystery

yep agreed.

David H wrote:Spoken like a true Victorian!

I know  I bet it was great being a Victorian, apart from the dentists, and the doctors, and the cholera infested rivers, and the miasma fogs. not forgetting outside loos and no loo paper, and having to clean your teeth with ash and water, and tin baths, and scratchy underwear, and never washing because nobody else does so why bother, rickets, fleas in horse hair sofas, talking of hoses, horse poo everywhere, mud everywhere, tuberculosis, dying at 30, if you were lucky, footpads, gas explosions, gas poisoning, lead poisoning, and bustles. those were the days.

And don't forget the arsenic in paint & make up

Ah, the good old days! [..sigh..]

Looking things up, I see that Northern Quilted Toilet paper from 1935 advertised "No splinters!"

{{I always find a good bit of sand paper does the job and you save money 'cause you get a lot of reuse out of it before it wears through (failing that cranberry leaves are quite good too but you do go through a lot of them and have to avoid unreasonably irate farmers !)}}}

{{Found this interesting- re Sherlock and Watson- is from the official Sherlock channel- the interesting bit is at 2.50 on.
I dont know how closely tied this channel is to the production, the Official Who one seems pretty closely tied to its production though. But still interesting to hear from 'official' channels their releationship described this way}}

{{It all goes by so fast in Sherlock and we ar eall so quick to look for fault- but sometimes its worth stopping to smell the flowers and appreciate the art. skill, imagination, thought and time put into this show}}}

One has to wonder how many of the visual tricks were in the writer's head and how many were conjured by the director.

{{Dunno how it works on Sherlock but I know a bit about it works on Who and I imagine its similar as Moffat is writer/showrunner on both wihile his wife Sue Vertue also produces Sherlock too (I know Moffat who hates all successful woman married to one of the most successful female producers in British TV- he must be gutted! ) so the only addition to the team is Gatiss as co-producer and writer.

So for writers they have a lot more input and will be present on set or on set more often than most writers could hope. And present throughout the production process and into post and editing.
I assume Sherlock would have to be heavily storyboarded for those sequences.

Judging on how Moffat has worked with writers and directors on Who he gives quite a wide initial latitude, it all starts with the script of course and then all the producers, head editors, set designers ect all get together and discuss it and ideas get thrown about. I reckon by the end of the process you'd be lucky if everyone involved could remember exactly which bits came from whom. At the end I think they are all just trying to make it the best thing they can. }}

{{Although its Who being talked about here I think it reflects the likely way she would have worked with Moffat oon her Sherlock episode, I put it here because of that and because its the only thing I can find directly quoting going from what is scripted to what was done when shooting.
It is from Dark Water and is the scene where Missy kisses the Doctor whilst pretending to a rather over familiar welcome droid. The script is Moffats, but what is on screen is a collaboration. Heres the quote from the director-

'That’s a case where Michelle Gomez had to experiment with so many things in the read through, and you know she would bring something so funny to it no matter what. And Peter Capaldi loves doing variety - he loves going again, and trying something completely new.

We could have spent all day letting them play with that, so I wish you could see all the takes of it. We were all on the floor laughing. I didn’t have to do anything but stand back and watch the magic.

One of Peter's debates was that it was very much scripted so that his eyes were closed... And we had a long discussion of closed/open. Can you be as shocked by it? Which is most effective?

The other thing I want to point out is that Jenna Coleman is brilliant in that scene, because that scene could easily be entirely stolen by [Gomez and Capaldi] but the humor is strengthened significantly by her reactions.'
And here is the actual scene completed-



As you can see the eyes are closed until the start of the nose kiss when he opens them- presumably the result of them trying different things, Capaldi and Talalay had similar debates over how to play certain scenes in Heaven Sent and wqhat tone and pitch they required, but its clear that directors and actors have a reasonable amount of input into interpreting the script as they shoot it in a Moffat production.}}}

Pettytyrant101 wrote:{{ 'cause you get a lot of reuse out of it before it wears through )}}}

Wears through WHAT????

{{{and doesn't the use of abrasives make you a bigger and bigger a**hole over time? }}}

is Victorian has bustle.  

David H wrote:Ah, the good old days! [..sigh..]

Those were the days!