Waiting for 'The Battle of the Five Armies'...

BotFA posters go in this thread, not in the thread created for the teaser trailer.

And what with Forumshire being so well known for its strict observance to posting in the correct thread and never going off topic!   

 Oh yeah, stickler for the rules here

You think there are rules?

Forest Shepherd wrote:BotFA posters go in this thread, not in the thread created for the teaser trailer.

You are starting to sound a bit like Eldo...

To misquote Doc Brown- "Where we're going, we dont need rules!"

Well hey legally speaking... but then IANAL amirite?

Notice how in the poster they make sure that you realize he's wearing the Mithril shirt. Maybe he's looking down to draw attention to it, and therefore to the LOTR reference.

And I don't mean to go backwards, but I agree that everything Lily was saying is correct, but her character doesn't live up to it whatsoever. TH itself discusses how greed and pride are dangerous and deadly, which is why BILBO IS SO IMPORTANT!!! Bilbo is the balance between gender traits. So yes, we don't really need Tauriel at all if Bilbo was more Bilbo-y and give Galadriel a bigger role if they want more feminine energy. But Bilbo is not only the protagonist he's the voice of reason, and in these films he's neither. They should be able to capitalize on the latter with Thorin acting like a complete ass all the time, but they've decided to flesh out every other part of the story except Bilbo's, so his courage to stick up to Thorin must be saved for the last possible moment so as not to waste it!

I quite agree Tin- its not what she says that wrong, its just that Tauriel is none of those things- she is just a terrible cliché.
And Bilbo who does represent the pivot point between those things may as well not be in these films for all the relevance he has.   

totally agree Tin, it was exactly the point i was trying to make, but i didn't think of Bilbo in it all (so PJ of me ) spot on correct about Tin's character we have a main character who is supposed to be as you said the voice of reason, no need for Tauriel. If she only had been what Lily described i would have been ok with her addition, even Galadriel..

if there were two female character PJ and co could have explored more (even though they too isn't a part of the book) it would have been Bard's two daughters. come on. great story just there. them in the fight, being scared, finding strenght and courage from other things than weapons. i know i would go there if i was writing that script. don't need no kick-ass-elf-babe for that.

and it is a shame because Evangeline Lily really loves Tolkien's universe and wanted more women both in LOTR and TH when she was little (she said so in interviews).

I really dont want to see any female characters in the Hobbit, it doesnt need them, its pc revisionism gone apeshit. The hobbit is and should Always remain, a story about males of various races.
Women in the Hobbit just clog it up with unecessary sentimental frilly romance sub plots that get on my wick.

I could see the point if TH was a male story- but its not, it just happens to have a male cast but its not got a particularly male view point, especially not in the voice of the narrator nor in the character of Bilbo.

If they had remembered Bilbo is supposed to be the hero in his own story the problem would not arise, and its more likely Bilbo would not have disappeared into the shadows of this tale to make room for all the pc feminine energy nonsense.

I think it is a very male viewpoint. Its all about brothers in arms, greed for power and territory and derring do, noble sacrifice in war and all that chivalric stuff.

For me its more universal than that- its about greed, and avarice and selfishness, and even class (think how often Tolkien points out how important a dwarf Thorin is and how Thorin himself acts like he thinks of himself as most important when in practise he is next to useless despite his position). And in the middle of it all you have a home body thrown out their comfort zone and in the end the only one who can see what is right and doesnt lose perspective on their basic values when all around them do.

And I dont see that as being gender specific.

Jumping back a few pages, but I just wanted to say that Norc, I am so proud of you for dropping lore knowledge like that. *sniff*

Norc wrote:Lily wants her character to be an individual, but she's not, sadly.

I think that's a good way of putting it. I'm not sure if Lilly is in denial (like Colbert ) or just playing nice for the marketing campaign, but Tauriel clearly does not live up to her vision for female characterization. I don't think that's at all Lilly's fault, though. That's been clear since at least the love triangle interview.

malickfan wrote:You are starting to sound a bit like Eldo...

Cracked he was.

Forest Shepherd wrote:

It's nice to have a poster that features Bilbo so prominently, but unfortunately, this poster perfectly sums up all the problems with how they've adapted the character of Bilbo to film.

Bilbo should have a wistful look on his face with a thought-bubble above his head full of bacon and eggs and a comfortable arm-chair set in front of a hot fire. It'd be ridiculous, but would do far more for his character than this homage-posture. I mean, who is he bowing to?
Is he offering up his sword to Theoden? I'm pretty sure that comes later there Bilbo, and from a Brandybuck too.

I suppose we shouldn't be too terribly hasty here. We did get the Arkenstone set-up required for a good payoff in the final film, so it might possibly be the case that Bilbo will actually display some elements of reason and sensibility that will contrast with Thorin's idiocy, Thranduil's greed and Bard's... Man-ness. Perhaps it's not too late for him to fulfill some of those traits whose lack thereof Tinuviel was so intelligent in pointing out.
Even if the scene in which this happens is sandwiched between an hour and a half of battle on either side of it...

I think my favorite part of DOS was how they handled Thorin's arc and the whole concept of dragon-sickness. They actually made it work (more or less) in a way that made sense and didn't just overwrite the ending of AUJ. Bilbo was shunted aside for most of the movie, of course, but at least there was some competent character work there. I hope that Bilbo has some nice moments in the final film, but the poster lends credence to the idea I think most of us already had, which is that film!Bilbo is going to keep being his action hero that he was in the climax of AUJ.

My goodness what are you still doing up Eldo you Easterner.

It's hard to imagine Bilbo accomplishing much more than Ori with his slingshot when it comes to the actual battle: he's just too small! A desperate skirmish is one thing, or a fight with spiders. But how can Jackson really make us believe that Bilbo will actually accomplish much in the fight?
I know that Merry and Pippin were present in the battle before the Morannon in RotK, but they weren't actually shown fighting (that I remember).
I don't know. We'll see what we'll see.
The more I think about it the more I tend to believe that I'm wrong and that Bilbo will be very active indeed. If he begins the battle with the Elves however as it is in the book...it might be awkward for the pace of things to be switching back and forth between him and the rest of the more important combatants.

I have a flight in the morning so I'd better get to bed myself!

I've been waging a long and fierce battle with sleep cycles myself.

I hear what you're saying about Bilbo not really being a fighter, but recall the end of AUJ, where he saves Thorin by tackling one of Azog's henchorcs to the ground and stabbing the dude to death with Sting.  He's a fighter in the films, or at least he's on his way to becoming one (the DOS spider scene was supposed to reinforce this, I think).  The very war-weary looking soldier-esque shot of Bilbo on the latest poster makes me pretty confident hat he will be an active, though probably not central, participant in the battle.

You raise a good point about Merry and Pippin. They had their battle scenes in ROTK, but they weren't portrayed as being on par with the experienced fighters there. Exactly the opposite, actually.

Eldorion wrote:Jumping back a few pages, but I just wanted to say that Norc, I am so proud of you for dropping lore knowledge like that. *sniff*

Norc wrote:Lily wants her character to be an individual, but she's not, sadly.

I think that's a good way of putting it.  I'm not sure if Lilly is in denial (like Colbert ) or just playing nice for the marketing campaign, but Tauriel clearly does not live up to her vision for female characterization.  I don't think that's at all Lilly's fault, though.  That's been clear since at least the love triangle interview.

haha, you thought i was just another witless fangirl there is more to little norc than meets the eye ;D

about this need of gender however, i both agree with figg and Petty. it is a very male story in the fact that there are a lot of men in it to give their viewpoint, but they are also universal themes as petty mentioned.

as a fun example, i read on tumblr that a girl/boy (not sure, he/she didn't say) was reading the Hobbit for his/her younger sister. The sister said Bilbo was a girl and after a little discussion the older sibling just went with it and he/she discovered that the story floated just as good, perhaps even better. and i think that that kinda shows that the Hobbit has a gender neutral message, the fact that you can switch sex and it doesn't really make any difference. A homebody girl, swept on adventure against her will, finds inner courage, sees reason when nobody els seems to do, and best of all.. no romance!

yes, Bilbo is not a fighter. Hobbits are not fighters. He is smart and uses his wits. and the ring.

https://youtu.be/jnA4E9H5sDU?t=6m42s