Sherlock - BBC [3]
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Re: Sherlock - BBC [3]
by Norc Fri Jan 03, 2014 2:53 am
Bluebottle wrote:Well, I hope a certain someone notices I haven't said a single word about her seeing a certain something.![Sherlock - BBC [3] - Page 15 Whistling2](https://2img.net/h/noisen.com/Smileys/cyna/whistling2.gif)
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Re: Sherlock - BBC [3]
by Eldorion Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:29 am
I have to be honest, my first impression is not entirely favorable. It's still a really good show, but this was definitely not my favorite episode. The Reichenbach resolution stuff dragged on, which was pretty much inevitable, but the whole terror plot was really uninteresting, particularly since it had already been done so much better in A Scandal in Belgravia last season. The jumping back and forth was rather jarring and the resolution is non-existent. It's nice to see everyone again, but aside from Sherlock and Mycroft (sort of) I didn't feel like there was a ton of development. Mary is just sort of there and they avoid even trying to answer the question of why Sherlock kept John in the dark for two years beyond it just being the sort of douchey thing that Sherlock does.
I dunno, this sounds overly harsh reading it back, but in a season with only three episodes it's unfortunate to have one that doesn't really do anything but pick up the pieces of last season and drop hints about a hopefully more intriguing plotline to follow. Not to harp on the Belgravia comparisons, although that is easily my favorite episode of the show, but they got it right there by resolving the cliffhanger in the first five minutes and then moving on. Also, the resolution of the series 1 cliffhanger was memorable because it came so far out of left field. The series 2 cliffhanger resolution was pretty much in line with what had been guessed, and that does result in some disappointment, no matter how clever they thought they were being by turning Anderson into a strawman avatar of the fandom.
I dunno, this sounds overly harsh reading it back, but in a season with only three episodes it's unfortunate to have one that doesn't really do anything but pick up the pieces of last season and drop hints about a hopefully more intriguing plotline to follow. Not to harp on the Belgravia comparisons, although that is easily my favorite episode of the show, but they got it right there by resolving the cliffhanger in the first five minutes and then moving on. Also, the resolution of the series 1 cliffhanger was memorable because it came so far out of left field. The series 2 cliffhanger resolution was pretty much in line with what had been guessed, and that does result in some disappointment, no matter how clever they thought they were being by turning Anderson into a strawman avatar of the fandom.
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Re: Sherlock - BBC [3]
by Eldorion Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:46 am
Assorted questions I hope they answer in the next two episodes:
I swear I did enjoy the episode overall, but it's easier to be a critic and everyone's going to be gushing over it anyway.
Edit: I will say that I liked the visual style of the episode even if it was a bit disorienting at times (that might have been me being tired, also). It takes the whole slick, cool style of the past two seasons up a notch. The soundtrack continues to be excellent. And all the performances are solid, especially Martin Freeman. Although the facial expressions and stuff reminds me just how Martin Freemany his Bilbo is. But he's really good as Watson.
- Spoiler:
- 1. Why does Anderson become a Sherlock groupie? Sure, he feels guilty once it comes out that Sherlock wasn't actually a fraud, but that doesn't really explain (to me, anyway) why he was driven so deep into denial about Sherlock's apparent suicide. To be fair, we knew very little about the character before, but this was pretty out of the blue.
2. Is Molly ever going to outgrow her infatuation with Sherlock? I had hoped that his two year absence would force her to grow, especially since she had received some validation from him by being able to help with the death-faking. But nope, she's going out with the first Sherlock cosplayer she could find. I get that this was probably done more for comedy than anything else, but I've always felt bad for Molly and it's more sad than anything else IMO.
3. Will Donovan come back? I'd be interested to see more of her since she played a bigger role than Anderson in The Reichenbach Fall and it would be interesting to see what impact Sherlock's fall and return had on her. I dunno if the actress was interested in returning, though.
4. I guess this is more of a question for readers of the original stories, but did Mycroft ever do "field work" in the ACD tales? My understanding (from Wikipedia) was that he was too "lazy" for anything like that and preferred to stay in the background. I love Gatiss' performance but having him go undercover made him seem a little too similar to Sherlock and his MO.
5. What's up with Mary? I was not expecting her to take to Sherlock so quickly, especially given the manner in which he reintroduced himself. Maybe she thought it was good for John to have Sherlock back, full stop. I'd like to learn more about her, though.
I swear I did enjoy the episode overall, but it's easier to be a critic and everyone's going to be gushing over it anyway.
Edit: I will say that I liked the visual style of the episode even if it was a bit disorienting at times (that might have been me being tired, also). It takes the whole slick, cool style of the past two seasons up a notch. The soundtrack continues to be excellent. And all the performances are solid, especially Martin Freeman. Although the facial expressions and stuff reminds me just how Martin Freemany his Bilbo is. But he's really good as Watson.
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Re: Sherlock - BBC [3]
by Pettytyrant101 Fri Jan 03, 2014 7:10 am
Eldo-
- Spoiler:
- 1. My guess would be that out of al the available characters to give such a role too he is the only available one with any motivation. Molly was in on it, they need Lestrade still in his job, it cant be Watson obviously and Mrs Hudson is pretty unlikely. And as you say we didnt know a lot about him anyway so it contradicts nothing, and he was always confrontational towards Sherlock so there is an element of comeuppance to it.
2. I doubt it. By necessity and based on the previous 2 series, her character is only a background one, she is the access to modern forensic equipment, a disguised plot tool, we should probably be grateful she is as well defined as she. It depends how much use the stories make of her- if she remains an occasional appearing character as needed its fine, if she gets more screen time it wilk become old fast and they will need to give her more to do.
3. Dont know.
4. No. Although there are nods to that fact in the dialogue.
Also Mycrfts main flaw in the books (as he is better at deduction than Holmes) is he has no idea how to practically apply his knowledge- this fact was for me represented in Mycrofts complete failure to have a plan and put an end to the torture- everything Sherlock told the guard that made him go home to catch his wife out Mycroft would have known too, and a lot sooner- but he was clueless and too inactive to do anything with the information.
So the scene both broke from the source with Mycroft doing field work at all, but how it played out also honoured and played nods to some of the things said about Mycroft in the books and why he doesnt do field work- quite cheeky from Gatiss!
5. Mary. Nagual has a theory- Spoiler:
- they have changed her and are using to fool people and it was her who got John kidnapped
book spoiler alert!-- Spoiler:
- In the books Mary is already dead by the time of Holmes return from the dead, Watson moves back into Baker Street and later he marries a second time. The fact she should be already dead by now makes me think Nagual might be on to something- the book never relates how she dies, and Watson never mentions her again once he moves back in. So the boards clear on her.
Its also worth remembering Holmes might not understand or see women with any sort of emotional eye, but he has a certain way with women-
'Watson states that Holmes has an "aversion to women" but "a peculiarly ingratiating way with [them]".
Watson writes in "The Adventure of the Dying Detective" that Mrs. Hudson is fond of Holmes in her own way, despite his bothersome eccentricities as a lodger, owing to his "remarkable gentleness and courtesy in his dealings with women". -wiki
Women like him.
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Re: Sherlock - BBC [3]
by Amarië Fri Jan 03, 2014 7:25 am
Can't say I disagree too much, Eldo. But don't you know that Moff
Anyhow...
- Spoiler:
- writes women with perfectly perfect perfection and if you don't think so then you are hateful to women. And BBC. And you read the daily mail. While watching Fox news. I think... Either that or someone else was to blame.
Anyhow...
- Spoiler:
- Donovan probably dumped Anderson because he became a mad conspiracy theorist. She's too cool for that kinda thing. I don't think he feels guilty, he just can't figure out how it was done.
To me this was mainly mostly flirting with the fans, makins sure everything is exactly like it was and setting up the new Big Baddie. He was checking out his new toys. Mary ran to Sherlock, Sherlock ran to John. John nearly burned like a Fawkes doll on a fire and there was a Guy Fawkes V for vendetta lame bomb attempt. The missing cart was too simple. Why didn't train nerd count them? And Finrod had a good point; Why use a timer when you have a remote detonator?
But I did like Sherlock muttering to John when he wasn't there and missing his comments. He makes Sherlock try harder.
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Re: Sherlock - BBC [3]
by Pettytyrant101 Fri Jan 03, 2014 7:51 am
writes women with perfectly perfect perfection and if you don't think so then you are hateful to women...- Amarie
I never mentioned the portrayal of women at all save to say to Eldo that if Molly is to have more to do they will need to flesh her out more.
Even in the conversation with Mrs Figg earlier which was about the particular complaints in the Mail review, were not about female characters but about fan service. If you must snidely bring it up as a jibe, at least do it it the right context.
I never mentioned the portrayal of women at all save to say to Eldo that if Molly is to have more to do they will need to flesh her out more.
Even in the conversation with Mrs Figg earlier which was about the particular complaints in the Mail review, were not about female characters but about fan service. If you must snidely bring it up as a jibe, at least do it it the right context.
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Re: Sherlock - BBC [3]
by Amarië Fri Jan 03, 2014 8:09 am
Oh please. I was referring to Eldo daring to criticizing not one but TWO female characters in a Moff show and your general attitude towards Figgy and me when we do the same. The context is Moff, you, and criticism towards Moff.
Blah! I seriously can't spell anything right today! And ironically I misspelled 'anything' several times while writing it.
Blah! I seriously can't spell anything right today! And ironically I misspelled 'anything' several times while writing it.
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Re: Sherlock - BBC [3]
by Pettytyrant101 Fri Jan 03, 2014 8:23 am
I never read Eldos remarks as criticism of two female characters. Of one, Molly, and I agreed that if she is to be in it more she needs more to do. Mary I felt Eldo was just looking for more general info, and I gave what I can remember from the books about it, which isnt a lot.
I would have responded with the same information to anyone else.
I wonder if Toby will be in the next episode. I hope he at least gets a nod.
I would have responded with the same information to anyone else.
- Spoiler:
- "this was mainly mostly flirting with the fans, makins sure everything is exactly like it was and setting up the new Big Baddie"
That would also make a perfect summary of the story The Empty House, upon which it is based.
"The missing cart was too simple."
Its a locked room in the original, and its equally background and simple and not that interesting as the story is about setting the pieces back in place and how the two react and interact upon being reunited, not upon the case which is just a means of getting them back on the case again together.
"Why use a timer when you have a remote detonator?"
Good point. No idea.
I wonder if Toby will be in the next episode. I hope he at least gets a nod.
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Re: Sherlock - BBC [3]
by Norc Fri Jan 03, 2014 12:47 pm
I liked that it was all about reunion. Also... To quote sherlocl "everyone's a critic" 
they knew it wouldn't please everyone and therefore played around with the different theories.
About mary
they knew it wouldn't please everyone and therefore played around with the different theories. About mary
- Spoiler:
- i think someone was targeting her, not sherlock, when they kidnapped john, and i am looking forward to finding outnmore about her. Notice when he deduces her, it says liar.
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Re: Sherlock - BBC [3]
by halfwise Fri Jan 03, 2014 1:11 pm
Eldo, how did you see it? Every site I tried wouldn't work in America. PBS still hasn't shown it.
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Re: Sherlock - BBC [3]
by Bluebottle Fri Jan 03, 2014 1:39 pm
Norc wrote:Bluebottle wrote:Well, I hope a certain someone notices I haven't said a single word about her seeing a certain something.
You said to keep quiet about it that's all.
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![Sherlock - BBC [3] - Page 15 Tumblr_msgi12FPjq1s8au6qo2_500](https://33.media.tumblr.com/de58a4b1ea8094e414d274be9532e12d/tumblr_msgi12FPjq1s8au6qo2_500.gif)
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Re: Sherlock - BBC [3]
by Bluebottle Fri Jan 03, 2014 1:41 pm
Am I this amazing? (That's rethorical by the way. 
)
Well, yes. I guess I am.
) Well, yes. I guess I am.
- Spoiler:
Last edited by Bluebottle on Fri Jan 03, 2014 2:08 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Re: Sherlock - BBC [3]
by halfwise Fri Jan 03, 2014 1:53 pm
You rock! but is it really only 48 minutes long? Guess I'll have to watch it.
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Re: Sherlock - BBC [3]
by Bluebottle Fri Jan 03, 2014 2:04 pm
You'll have to click on the title and watch it on dailymotion to see it in fullscreen anyway and you'll find it there, but I'll edit in part 2 below the first video anyway.
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Re: Sherlock - BBC [3]
by Bluebottle Fri Jan 03, 2014 2:06 pm
And maybe spoiler tag it, come to think of it. As not to fall foul of either Norc or myself.
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Re: Sherlock - BBC [3]
by Mrs Figg Fri Jan 03, 2014 2:30 pm
Eldorion wrote:Assorted questions I hope they answer in the next two episodes:
- Spoiler:
There was no reason for Anderson to feel guilty, it is totally out of the blue. I think basically the use of Anderson, Molly and the fangirls/boys are basically pretty condescending towards the real fans and US in general, the viewer. i noticed that there is a descending food chain of attractivness which I find a bit bodyfascist, ie Sherlock is at the top, the handsome cool guy and thelower you get the more unattractive the characters until you get to the fat goggle eyed fangirl in her dark flat full of losers, and the straggly bearded bonkers Anderson. Its like Sherlock has been turned into this godlike angelic figure that has risen from the dead. Its quite wearing. Sherlock shouldnt be omnipotent and I feel really sorry for Molly, they make her look like a sad fool pining over him its just more taking the piss at fans imo.
2. Is Molly ever going to outgrow her infatuation with Sherlock? I had hoped that his two year absence would force her to grow, especially since she had received some validation from him by being able to help with the death-faking. But nope, she's going out with the first Sherlock cosplayer she could find. I get that this was probably done more for comedy than anything else, but I've always felt bad for Molly and it's more sad than anything else IMO.
I agree, its quite painful to watch, she is an intelligent scientist made out to be another Sherlock drooler.
3. Will Donovan come back? I'd be interested to see more of her since she played a bigger role than Anderson in The Reichenbach Fall and it would be interesting to see what impact Sherlock's fall and return had on her. I dunno if the actress was interested in returning, though.
4. I guess this is more of a question for readers of the original stories, but did Mycroft ever do "field work" in the ACD tales? My understanding (from Wikipedia) was that he was too "lazy" for anything like that and preferred to stay in the background. I love Gatiss' performance but having him go undercover made him seem a little too similar to Sherlock and his MO.
5. What's up with Mary? I was not expecting her to take to Sherlock so quickly, especially given the manner in which he reintroduced himself. Maybe she thought it was good for John to have Sherlock back, full stop. I'd like to learn more about her, though.
She is Freemans real wife, and it was Cumberbums real parents, I reckon its little more than fan service. They seem to care a lot about appeasing fans more than actually coming up with a decent plot. It was a Whole episode on setting up his return, as you said, and I agree it was very disappointing. It was style over substance, but because people have been waiting 2 years they will accept any old rubbish. They have created a mythos and this episode was more piling on the myth that Sherlock is a superhuman god. Basically its a Moffat wankfest.
I swear I did enjoy the episode overall, but it's easier to be a critic and everyone's going to be gushing over it anyway.
Edit: I will say that I liked the visual style of the episode even if it was a bit disorienting at times (that might have been me being tired, also). It takes the whole slick, cool style of the past two seasons up a notch. The soundtrack continues to be excellent. And all the performances are solid, especially Martin Freeman. Although the facial expressions and stuff reminds me just how Martin Freemany his Bilbo is. But he's really good as Watson.
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Re: Sherlock - BBC [3]
by Mrs Figg Fri Jan 03, 2014 2:34 pm
Eldorion wrote:I have to be honest, my first impression is not entirely favorable. It's still a really good show, but this was definitely not my favorite episode. The Reichenbach resolution stuff dragged on, which was pretty much inevitable, but the whole terror plot was really uninteresting, particularly since it had already been done so much better in A Scandal in Belgravia last season. The jumping back and forth was rather jarring and the resolution is non-existent. It's nice to see everyone again, but aside from Sherlock and Mycroft (sort of) I didn't feel like there was a ton of development. Mary is just sort of there and they avoid even trying to answer the question of why Sherlock kept John in the dark for two years beyond it just being the sort of douchey thing that Sherlock does.
I dunno, this sounds overly harsh reading it back, but in a season with only three episodes it's unfortunate to have one that doesn't really do anything but pick up the pieces of last season and drop hints about a hopefully more intriguing plotline to follow. Not to harp on the Belgravia comparisons, although that is easily my favorite episode of the show, but they got it right there by resolving the cliffhanger in the first five minutes and then moving on. Also, the resolution of the series 1 cliffhanger was memorable because it came so far out of left field. The series 2 cliffhanger resolution was pretty much in line with what had been guessed, and that does result in some disappointment, no matter how clever they thought they were being by turning Anderson into a strawman avatar of the fandom.
I totally agree Eldo. In parts it was a V for Vendetta rip -off
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Re: Sherlock - BBC [3]
by Norc Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:33 pm
omg. just want to say one thing. i had been a bit dissapointed with NRK for not showing any trailers or nothing but then i woke up and they played the soundtrack of "young sherlock holmes" (that movie) on the NRK P2 (the classical channel) and mentioned season 3 and omG!!! AND THEY JSUT, FOR THE SECOND TIME MENTIONED IT ON THE RADIO!!
though i had to scroll down on the webside to find an actual review..
http://p3.no/filmpolitiet/2014/01/sherlock-s03-s01/
though i had to scroll down on the webside to find an actual review..
http://p3.no/filmpolitiet/2014/01/sherlock-s03-s01/
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Re: Sherlock - BBC [3]
by halfwise Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:42 pm
I didn't really like it. There was no cleverness, no impressive deduction of any importance...it wasn't Sherlock Holmes.
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Re: Sherlock - BBC [3]
by Norc Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:48 pm
well, everyone's a critic i'de say this episode is mostly for the fans and to get them back together.. and it also established some anticipation for the next episodes, with the kidnapping and this weird ass danish villain.
i'de say this episode is mostly for the fans and to get them back together.. and it also established some anticipation for the next episodes, with the kidnapping and this weird ass danish villain.
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Re: Sherlock - BBC [3]
by Norc Fri Jan 03, 2014 5:27 pm
does anyone know where i can watch the hounds of baskerville? (I lent out my season 2 dvd)
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Re: Sherlock - BBC [3]
by Bluebottle Fri Jan 03, 2014 5:36 pm
Of course.
Didn't I say I was amazing.
http://www.veoh.com/watch/v30411189x3A6zGST
Didn't I say I was amazing.
http://www.veoh.com/watch/v30411189x3A6zGST
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Re: Sherlock - BBC [3]
by Mrs Figg Fri Jan 03, 2014 5:42 pm
This is the same old tosh Moffat & co reel out in Dr Who. Is the Doctor/Sherlock as little clay foot gods with the rest of us looking up in awe while the demi-god does his cool stuff. The god has his temple and inner sanctum TARDIS/221b Baker Street, his fawning acolyte groupies, the women are either sexy predators or losers in White coats and long scarves and the men are fanboys who havent a clue without the master on hand to save the day. Its all high gloss action filled and very little real content. Its 'fun' but you cant really watch the episodes twice without noticing the cracks.
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» The New American versions of Sherlock: Perception and Elementary
» Sherlock - BBC
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» The New American versions of Sherlock: Perception and Elementary
» Sherlock - BBC
» Sherlock - BBC [4]
» Sherlock - BBC [2]
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