The Desolation of Smaug pre-release thread [3] [SPOILERS]
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Forumshire :: Middle-earth :: The Hobbit
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Mrs Figg- Eel Wrangler from Bree
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Re: The Desolation of Smaug pre-release thread [3] [SPOILERS]
Some guy on torn saw the movie and posted his thoughts.
http://newboards.theonering.net/forum/gforum/perl/gforum.cgi?post=675515;sb=post_time;so=DESC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;guest=98410937
So, this person went into the movie not knowing that the whole thing was going to be a last minute cgi-fest? I mean, come on. After AUJ how can anyone be that naive?
http://newboards.theonering.net/forum/gforum/perl/gforum.cgi?post=675515;sb=post_time;so=DESC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;guest=98410937
- Spoiler:
- My apologies in advance if this is a bit difficult to read. It was hastily written during my lunch break. Let me know if you'd like any clarification!
I had the good fortune of seeing the film last night with Peter Jackson, Dan Hannah, Joe Letteri and Cumberbatch. To pre-empt this I will say that I loved AUJ. I love Tolkien but I'm not a purist in the slightest (I haven't read the Hobbit in years, I'm more fascinated by the First Age era of Middle Earth). My expectations were hampered and I was prepared to just enjoy the movie for whatever it was...
With that said, I'm sad to report there are a lot of things to be disappointed by with DOS. The purists even moreso.
Before I get into the gritty dissection I must say there are a lot of beautiful moments that play very well. I won't spoil them here because I'd much rather you discover them in the theater. I will however pick apart the moments that don't work...
The CGI: The orcs in this film pop out far more than they did in AUJ. This is made doubly worse when they are placed in completely CGI environments which happens quite regularly with Azog and Bolg. It gives the effect of watching a videogame, which I strain to say since it was that criticism the last go around with AUJ that I didn't understand. But in several scenes, especially in Dol Guldur and in Lake Town (in the third act), the CGI unfortunately is inexcusable, likely the result of these scenes being late additions with the reshoots.
Thranduil: Minor criticism is that PJ made the odd choice to give Thranduil a massive facial scar that he can hide or reveal at his choosing. It is a strange choice and it comes across as unnecessary and clumsy in the scene and in the mythology.
Dol Guldur: Thrain has been completely cut or shifted to film 3. As a result these scenes lack any substance or emotional weight. I hate to draw attention back to the effects but there are several moments (likely changed late in the game) where they've completely CGI'd shots to retrospectively remove Thrain and have Gandalf run about by himself.
Necromancer: The necromancer is a sonic cloud being in the film. Odd but I was willing to follow PJ on it. His duel with Gandalf is strange, Gandalf uses a spell very similar to the one at the end of Prisoner of Azkaban. The shots are completely CGI (including Gandalf who becomes digital quite often in Dol Guldur), giving the duel a very bizarre look.
Barrel Sequence: I really was looking forward to this but even I can only tolerate so many PJ gags. This sequence features some of his most bizarre and over-the-top gags. There is an extended CGI Bombur Ninja moment that would have been better left cut, and Legolas has more than a couple cringe inducing superhero feats.
The Third Act:
Honestly this is where I had the most trouble. I'm not a purist in the slightest but I think when Peter ventured into fabricating his own entire third act he lost his way a bit. I'll break it down a bit:
Laketown (Legolas and Tauriel vs. Orcs) - This scene was clearly shot in the reshoots (or at least the bulk of it) and it shows. After establishing how well guarded Laketown is and how it's full of spies and eavesdroppers, Bolg and his orcs manage to sneak in and wage a war with Legolas and Tauriel without a single Laketown soldier or citizen raising the alarm. It's a strange scene that feels as though they retrospectively (and sloppily) wanted to add in an action scene that didn't fit.
Tauriel heals Kili - I don't mind the romance hinted at with Kili and Tauriel. It could have been done it a less hammy way but I was on board. However, having Tauriel beat for beat rehash Arwen's healing scene from FOTR was completely unnecessary. They even used the bright halo effect from FOTR. It's a odd choice and cheapens Arwen's entrance in LOTR.
Dwarves vs. Smaug: This seems to have been a late addition, or at least the bulk of it. I had to rag on about the effects but they honestly at times looked like pre-vis (save Smaug who was always in top form and beautifully rendered). It's outlandish and gravity defying in all the worst ways. It's really Peter Jackson without restraint which is not the best Peter Jackson.
Final note: I think CGI has given him way too much freedom. His focus seems to be more on action and shock than beauty and grandeur. And that extends past the action and the effects, it extends into the story. His belief that he can massively alter scenes at the last minute leaves the film feeling stunted and deformed in places.
I wish he had stuck with miniatures, not because they look better (although I think they do!) but because they force him to think through each and every shot months in advance... not 6 weeks before delivery date. At the Q & A he said that often times he "winged it" and it shows...
- Spoiler:
- Thorin rides a WHEEL barrel (Edited) down a river of molten gold....
So, this person went into the movie not knowing that the whole thing was going to be a last minute cgi-fest? I mean, come on. After AUJ how can anyone be that naive?
bungobaggins- Eternal Mayor in The Halls of Mandos
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Re: The Desolation of Smaug pre-release thread [3] [SPOILERS]
For PJ:
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Radaghast- Barrel-rider
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Re: The Desolation of Smaug pre-release thread [3] [SPOILERS]
It does make a lot of sense though, that some of these over the top storylines are just Peter Jackson winging it.
Bilbo and the dwarfs fighting Smaug? Anyone who knows anything about Tolkiens story would know how completely out of synch that is with the logic Tolkien created.
Bilbo and the dwarfs fighting Smaug? Anyone who knows anything about Tolkiens story would know how completely out of synch that is with the logic Tolkien created.
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Re: The Desolation of Smaug pre-release thread [3] [SPOILERS]
well if it was confirmation we wanted, this guy gives it. and how.
oh well, what can I say. They spent a butt load of cash and had some jollies for a year down in NZ, they all got paid and get to go to swanky after parties. We get to sit in the dark grinding our teeth and/or crying into our popcorn, or just sitting there bemused and bored. Dont know if I will even bother, but I may as well go just so i know what you guys will be talking about.
when I think back to when I first heard of TH being filmed, I was SO excited, so happy, couldnt wait, I imagined all manner of glorious stuff, and now its all gone and its worse than I could ever imagine. ok its just a film its no big deal, but still its a wasted opportunity on an artistic level.
oh well, what can I say. They spent a butt load of cash and had some jollies for a year down in NZ, they all got paid and get to go to swanky after parties. We get to sit in the dark grinding our teeth and/or crying into our popcorn, or just sitting there bemused and bored. Dont know if I will even bother, but I may as well go just so i know what you guys will be talking about.
when I think back to when I first heard of TH being filmed, I was SO excited, so happy, couldnt wait, I imagined all manner of glorious stuff, and now its all gone and its worse than I could ever imagine. ok its just a film its no big deal, but still its a wasted opportunity on an artistic level.
Mrs Figg- Eel Wrangler from Bree
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Re: The Desolation of Smaug pre-release thread [3] [SPOILERS]
The moment with Bombur during the barrel sequence is worse than I thought.
http://newboards.theonering.net/forum/gforum/perl/gforum.cgi?post=675650#675650
http://newboards.theonering.net/forum/gforum/perl/gforum.cgi?post=675650#675650
- Spoiler:
- Bombur rolls on land like a bowling ball, knocks over orcs like pins, launches off a rock onto the other side of the river, rolls over more orcs and then stands upright, rips his arms through the barrel and begins fighting on land with a Ninja stance, using the barrel as a coat of armor while he wields two axes.
bungobaggins- Eternal Mayor in The Halls of Mandos
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Re: The Desolation of Smaug pre-release thread [3] [SPOILERS]
Yup, sounds like PJ, whom I salute from the bottom of my heart:
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Radaghast- Barrel-rider
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Re: The Desolation of Smaug pre-release thread [3] [SPOILERS]
I think it'll go a little something like this.
bungobaggins- Eternal Mayor in The Halls of Mandos
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Re: The Desolation of Smaug pre-release thread [3] [SPOILERS]
EXPLOSIVE MY ASS!!!! I smell a conspiracy here... FiggsMrs Figg wrote:its a 3 (grey) horse race at this point. :nod:It depends on your preferred crabbit style.Ringdrotten wrote:the Most Crabbit award just got interesting
1. Petty = Constant Crabbit - ''does what it says on the tin''
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Sinister71- Stinging Fly
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Re: The Desolation of Smaug pre-release thread [3] [SPOILERS]
That whole thread is rather disappointing.bungobaggins wrote:The moment with Bombur during the barrel sequence is worse than I thought.
http://newboards.theonering.net/forum/gforum/perl/gforum.cgi?post=675650#675650
Re: The Desolation of Smaug pre-release thread [3] [SPOILERS]
I tried to avoid anything too spoilery (such as details about what exactly happens), but
Edit: is it sad that I just realized where the spoiler button was:shock:
- spoiler:
- that thing with the scar on Thranduil's face seemed really, really random. And the bit about Bolg vs. Tauriel and Legolas in a forsaken Laketown reminds me of all the elves just disappearing at Helms Deep
Edit: is it sad that I just realized where the spoiler button was:shock:
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Tinuviel- Finest Nose
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Re: The Desolation of Smaug pre-release thread [3] [SPOILERS]
I don't see how that entire sequence (barrels) can be anything but laughable.
I don't understand the scar thing either, and I think that if someone who enjoyed AUJ and didn't like DOS will probably mean that we'll hate DOS times two.
I don't understand the scar thing either, and I think that if someone who enjoyed AUJ and didn't like DOS will probably mean that we'll hate DOS times two.
bungobaggins- Eternal Mayor in The Halls of Mandos
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Re: The Desolation of Smaug pre-release thread [3] [SPOILERS]
Hah! Great avatar, bungo.
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Radaghast- Barrel-rider
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Re: The Desolation of Smaug pre-release thread [3] [SPOILERS]
That honestly sounds like a satire more than anything. If that's true, then wow: Stay away from the Silmarillion!
It's all we have left.
It's all we have left.
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Remember Merp - July 11th, 2013
RA- Defender of the faith and Dunedain of the thread
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Re: The Desolation of Smaug pre-release thread [3] [SPOILERS]
Yeah, go make King Kong vs. Mecha-Godzilla or something.
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Radaghast- Barrel-rider
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Re: The Desolation of Smaug pre-release thread [3] [SPOILERS]
I think there must be something in the water at Rhosgobel. Bungo...?
Re: The Desolation of Smaug pre-release thread [3] [SPOILERS]
WE WANT 10 MOVIEZ BASED ON THE SILLYMARILLION!!!!!!!!!!! IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT DON'T WATCH THE MOVIEZZZZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11!!!!!1Recoveryanonymous wrote:That honestly sounds like a satire more than anything. If that's true, then wow: Stay away from the Silmarillion!
It's all we have left.
[[[[[[[[[The whole Thorin surfing on lava sounds like Revenge of the Tshi and the whole Mustafar sequence]]]]]]]]]]]]]
Thanks Raddy
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bungobaggins- Eternal Mayor in The Halls of Mandos
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Re: The Desolation of Smaug pre-release thread [3] [SPOILERS]
Crabbit Juice!Eldorion wrote:I think there must be something in the water at Rhosgobel. Bungo...?
bungobaggins- Eternal Mayor in The Halls of Mandos
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Re: The Desolation of Smaug pre-release thread [3] [SPOILERS]
Really though, it's clear that's the kind of movie he wants to make; I don't know why he chooses source material that he has to fight with in order to get there. He needs to work on Pacific Rim or something similar.Radaghast wrote:Yeah, go make King Kong vs. Mecha-Godzilla or something.
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Save Merp for 2013!
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"From him they learnt many things it were not good for any but the great Valar to know, for being half-comprehended such deep hidden things slay happiness; and besides many of the sayings of Melko were cunning lies or were but partly true, and the Noldoli ceased to sing, and their viols fell silent upon the hill of Kôr, for their hearts grew somewhat older as their lore grew deeper and their desires more swollen, and the books of their wisdom were multiplied as the leaves of the forest."
Remember Merp - July 11th, 2013
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Re: The Desolation of Smaug pre-release thread [3] [SPOILERS]
Oh god, the fanbase...bungobaggins wrote:WE WANT 10 MOVIEZ BASED ON THE SILLYMARILLION!!!!!!!!!!! IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT DON'T WATCH THE MOVIEZZZZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11!!!!!1Recoveryanonymous wrote:That honestly sounds like a satire more than anything. If that's true, then wow: Stay away from the Silmarillion!
It's all we have left.
[[[[[[[[[The whole Thorin surfing on lava sounds like Revenge of the Tshi and the whole Mustafar sequence]]]]]]]]]]]]]
Thanks Raddy
I'd like to thank Google Images.
_________________
"No one knows what the new day shall bring him" -Aragorn T.A. 3019 March 4th
Save Merp for 2013!
25,000 and counting. 12-23-12
"From him they learnt many things it were not good for any but the great Valar to know, for being half-comprehended such deep hidden things slay happiness; and besides many of the sayings of Melko were cunning lies or were but partly true, and the Noldoli ceased to sing, and their viols fell silent upon the hill of Kôr, for their hearts grew somewhat older as their lore grew deeper and their desires more swollen, and the books of their wisdom were multiplied as the leaves of the forest."
Remember Merp - July 11th, 2013
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Re: The Desolation of Smaug pre-release thread [3] [SPOILERS]
HATERZ GONNA HATE!!!!!!!!
bungobaggins- Eternal Mayor in The Halls of Mandos
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Re: The Desolation of Smaug pre-release thread [3] [SPOILERS]
I think PJ is thumbing his nose at the us with shite like this. "Oh you didn't like the dwarves falling a hundred feet and then having a fat goblin fall from 100 feet on top of them?! Well, look at THIS! How you like me now, BITCHEZZZ?!"
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Re: The Desolation of Smaug pre-release thread [3] [SPOILERS]
Okay, honestly, I was thinking about this the other day. I know that "make it an HBO miniseries!" is the preferred method for hypothetically adapting The Silmarillion, especially since Game of Thrones became a big hit, but I don't think it would work. It doesn't get around the fact that The Silmarillion is not a novel, barely has a coherent plot, and has characters appear and drop away constantly. If you were going to try to adapt The Silmarillion, I think the best bet would be to copy the Marvel Cinematic Universe. You can have stand-alone movies and/or self-contained duologies and trilogies for specific storylines, like the Feanor's rebellion, Beren and Luthien, etc. Every now and then there are giant crossover movies that tie together the various story pieces and anchor the whole franchise. Since the timeline is way more spread out than the MCU, these movies might be the transitions between different individual storylines. The most obvious candidates for the subject of the mega movies would be the principle Battles of Beleriand.bungobaggins wrote:WE WANT 10 MOVIEZ BASED ON THE SILLYMARILLION!!!!!!!!!!! IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT DON'T WATCH THE MOVIEZZZZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11!!!!!1
Honestly, this would still probably be a gigantic mess, and I'd rather that The Silmarillion not be adapted at all, but I think this would be the best of many possible bad approaches.
Re: The Desolation of Smaug pre-release thread [3] [SPOILERS]
He needs to make another cheesy horror film.Recoveryanonymous wrote:Really though, it's clear that's the kind of movie he wants to make; I don't know why he chooses source material that he has to fight with in order to get there. He needs to work on Pacific Rim or something similar.Radaghast wrote:Yeah, go make King Kong vs. Mecha-Godzilla or something.
bungobaggins- Eternal Mayor in The Halls of Mandos
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Re: The Desolation of Smaug pre-release thread [3] [SPOILERS]
His other movies don't seem to sell as well, though King Kong seems to be regarded as some sort of masterpiece for some reasonRecoveryanonymous wrote:Really though, it's clear that's the kind of movie he wants to make; I don't know why he chooses source material that he has to fight with in order to get there. He needs to work on Pacific Rim or something similar.Radaghast wrote:Yeah, go make King Kong vs. Mecha-Godzilla or something.
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