Re: The Desolation of Smaug pre-release thread [3] [SPOILERS]

[Mrs Figg]

or in PJs case 48fps rubbish.

[Norc]

I mean are they just lazy or stupid? They have so much more money this time around! Instead of using it on special effects, use it to buy helicopters so you can build sets and shoot ON LOCATION!!!!! The movie The Fall was filmed completely on location, and it was fantastic and gorgeous! Green screens are cheap cop-outs for lazy directors who are focusing too much of their energy in the wrong places    

i wanna see The Fall so badly!

[bungobaggins]

[bungobaggins]

ok. It looks quite interesting might give the first episode a go.

fake edit, tell you what I will do you a deal, if I watch the first episode of BB you have to watch the first episode of Merlin. howzabout that? :PLets see who gets hooked.

Ok. It will be a few days before I can watch it though.

[bungobaggins]

Wait a minute....

[Mrs Figg]

  its a deal

[Mrs Figg]

Wait a minute....

 

[RA]

So the Hobbit might end Ian Mcckellen's career as well as just being bad on its own merits, while also being a bad adaptation. So much collateral damage.
(run-on sentences  )

[Mrs Figg]

hey Bungo just watched the first episode of BB. its bloody brilliant. I am well and truly

HOOKED!!!!!!       

[Ringdrotten]

hey Bungo just watched the first episode of BB. its bloody brilliant. I am well and truly

HOOKED!!!!!!       

 

That's a good sign - I wasn't hooked at first, but I kept watching and towards the end of the first season I was hooked, and the show just kept improving with every episode and season. Whatever you do, avoid spoilers and youtube videos and just let the show amaze you the way it is meant to

[bungobaggins]

Spoilers from torn, taken from some book.

Barrels-Scene. We know already Orcs attack the dwarves, who are in turn attacked by the elves. The elves have however closed some kind of door/outlet in the river (?), which holds back the barrels. In all the fighting turmoil the dwarves manage to open that door and flee. They get to that "beach" we saw already in the trailers ( I think that is where Legolas and Tauriel discuss later/"It is not our fight") where a deadly stranger waits for them - Bard. They lie to him saying they are merchants and would pay him good if he gets them to Laketown.

CUT

High-Fells-Scene: no particular details on that. Just that some "old enemy" is at work and they have to get to Dol Guldur.

CUT

Bard gets the dwarves into Laketown (people who saw the 20 minutes on Nov 4th will know how exactly) and brings them to his house. There Balin tells a story how Smaug came first to Erebor and was wounded by a legendary black arrow fired by a dwarvish (!) weapon.
The dwarves have to hurry because they only have two days to get to the mountain as then it will be Durins Day, but can't go anywhere because they are trapped in Bards home. So eventually they sneak out of the house at night. Bard notices that far later.
But the Company then is captured by the guards and is presented to the Master on the marketplace of the town. (I think that must be where the trailer scene is happening between Bard an Thorin) Thorin convinces the Master to let them go. He promises him gold in exchange.

CUT

Dol Guldur: Gandalf and Radagst arrive together and Gandaf gives Radagast a message which he must deliver. He asks for Radagast to not follow him into the ruin. Then Radagast leaves and he gets in alone.

Meanwhile the dwarves get on their way to the mountain. Once there (on that giant dwarven statue) they find that time is running out and they try to open the hidden door. But it does not work at first and Thorin angrily throws away ( ?) the key. But eventually Bilbo manages to open it.

Then it continues wiht the scenes of Bilbo as seen in the 20 Minute preview. One detail though: Smaugs eyes GLOW.

After that eye of Smaug opens the storybook ends.

http://newboards.theonering.net/forum/gforum/perl/gforum.cgi?post=666205;sb=post_time;so=DESC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;guest=96782324

[Pettytyrant101]

It all sounds pretty bloody awful.  

[Bluebottle]

So they are changing every single detail in this one as well.

At some point this must have gone so far that the Tolkien estate can sue for damage to the original work surely.

[Forest Shepherd]

SFX magazine interviews-

http://thorinoakenshield.net/2013/11/13/sfx-magazine-desolation-of-smaug-interviews/

I had to stop reading due to severe crabbit at the point where Boyens, describing the crap they have made up says- "We've tried to again keep it real, tried to keep it almost historical like these events really happened."

  Do they even know whats in their own script? Have they actually tried watching AUJ?
What kind of fucking realistic history is that supposed to be you lying bastards!?      

Thanks muchly for the article Petty!
Points I found particularly mind-clubbingly annoying or redundant:

1. Boyens says that AUJ was positively received by those "it needed to be embraced by, which was the fans." This is circular reasoning. She is saying that they wanted the film to be liked by the fans and made the movie with that aim in mind. The "fans" are those audience members that liked the movie. So AUJ was made for the fans among the audience that would like the film, which were the audience members that liked the film. I've heard this elsewhere and it continues to be as meaningless as ever.

2. Richard Armitage is either seriously kissing up, or else the PJ team have found the perfect fit in him as an actor. He says of them, "They never stop writing the script, they never stop working on it... That's what I love most about them."
Ok never mind, I believe all the actors in this article are whoring-out for Jackson. Martin Freeman denies his celebrity status from this movie, saying "It's the film that's the star. Peter Jackson's the star, if anything!"  

3. Overall the whole article has a kind of tongue-in-cheek feel. The title-page image has an unhappy Bilbo arguing something with PJ while the dwarves smirk or look bored in the background. The article itself is jokingly titled "The Decimation of Smaug," which when taken with all the painful puns (Tauriel's character blurb has "Are you Tolkien to me?" on it, also "Dragon it out") and the snide image caption "Don't like the story? Just admire the scenery" makes the article seem glib, facetious and shallow. I suppose it is from SFX Magazine, but coupled with the mostly lame stuff Boyens says, the net effect is to depress me even further about the whole big fat mess.

I had a friend who, a couple years back, laughed at me for being excited about the upcoming Hobbit movies. He told me that since it was the same team from LotR the films would be rubbish. I know that he made these statements from ignorance and a desire to appear discerning (in reality he hasn't even seen the 2nd and 3rd LotR) but I am finding it harder to discount his opinion as hasty and misguided. He had a point, as most of the stuff I've read from PJ and Co, including this article, makes it quite clear their devotion to interweaving as much LotR as possible into their expanded Hobbit, and the amount of responsibility they felt throughout all stages of production to live up to their previous trilogy. Boyens even numbers one of the great difficulties in telling The Hobbit as being that Bilbo does not carry the fate of the world upon him from the get-go; as if that is the requirement for a good Tolkien-based film. Ugh.

[Mrs Figg]

I have this feeling of weary disbelief, reading TORn is like listening to someone denying Evolution, you cant believe they actually believe this shit, and they try to convince you with 'logic' and loads of fan-people are going, yeah yeah Evolution sucks!. Its like wading through cement. First reaction is full on crabbit, but after a while you have to just let it go.

[bungobaggins]

I have this feeling of weary disbelief, reading TORn is like listening to someone denying Evolution, you cant believe they actually believe this shit, and they try to convince you with 'logic' and loads of fan-people are going, yeah yeah Evolution sucks!. Its like wading through cement. First reaction is full on crabbit, but after a while you have to just let it go.

Whenever I see them talking about having "faith in PJ" it makes me think of evangelical christians. I am fascinated and frightened by them (evangelical christians), the people on torn don't really frighten me. I've seen so many similar statements "trust in PJ" etc. So you'll trust the guy who FILMED aragorn fighting sauron???? Not that he just considered it at one point and abandoned the concept, but he and the writers felt they needed to have this to fit screenwriting basics, and then FILMED it. At one point it was going to be in the final product.

You have "faith" in the people who didn't even know what the point of the story was? I've learned in my life through my experiences that faith is an extremely flimsy concept and should be tossed out the window, other people can't be trusted, especially when there is evidence showing that they shouldn't be trusted.

I am convinced that these people would like the movie no matter what happenes in it. Imagine tauriel killing bilbo in the elf kings hall and then she becomes the main character, I am convinced that some people over there would find a way to excuse it, and some would profess love for the change.

Torn, pffffff what a fucking joke. Forged by and for fans of Peter Jackson.

[halfwise]

Way back early on ToRN was the only thing out there for information about the then new or developing movies, and I respected them for it. Then somewhere between FotR and TT we started to see the cracks between reality and fandom. Boy did that relationship go sour.

[bungobaggins]

Didn't they set up a website for King Kong? What did they do for The Lovely Bones?

[Pettytyrant101]

First reaction is full on crabbit, but after a while you have to just let it go.- Mrs Figg

You should never let the crabbit go Mrs Figg. It should burn at the very heart of you, a fire hot enough to change the world! (or at least to rant angrily at it until you fall over drunk)


As to ToRN, in my experience of observing such things, no matter the initial good intentions, if you cozy up to the filmmakers, rely on them for titbits, to be first with the news ect it eats away at your impartiality. It inevitably leads to a bias and a wish not to bite that hand that feeds you.

I wonder if the ToRN staffers will get invited to a big wrap party for TH like they were for LoTR's?

Now if they really wanted to know what Tolkien fans thought of this desecration of Tolkien they would invite the inhabitants of Forumshire along to set them straight and drink all their buckie

[bungobaggins]

Possibly Thorin meeting Gandalf in Bree. I'm not sure if there was a definite answer here before, but can they legally include this scene in the movie?

[Pettytyrant101]

I dont have the book to hand as Im not at home, but I suspect the information that it happened is included in the Tale of Years.

However the actual conversation they have, the purpose of it and how it resolves, is only in UT which they dont have the rights too- so they can have the meeting but they cant use any Tolkien stuff in it- so no change there.

[Bluebottle]

Actually I think that part is in the appendices with at least some dialogue.

I jotted it down the other day when you guys where discussing the scene, but forgot to share it. Here it is:

That's on from Apendix A page 1417-1418 by J.R.R. Tolkien.

Though they will probably change it anyway.

[Eldorion]

I had a friend who, a couple years back, laughed at me for being excited about the upcoming Hobbit movies. He told me that since it was the same team from LotR the films would be rubbish. I know that he made these statements from ignorance and a desire to appear discerning (in reality he hasn't even seen the 2nd and 3rd LotR) but I am finding it harder to discount his opinion as hasty and misguided. He had a point, as most of the stuff I've read from PJ and Co, including this article, makes it quite clear their devotion to interweaving as much LotR as possible into their expanded Hobbit, and the amount of responsibility they felt throughout all stages of production to live up to their previous trilogy. Boyens even numbers one of the great difficulties in telling The Hobbit as being that Bilbo does not carry the fate of the world upon him from the get-go; as if that is the requirement for a good Tolkien-based film. Ugh.

I did something kinda similar, trying to appear discerning by saying that the Hobbit films would be a disappointment all the way back in February 2009. Though I like to think I wasn't speaking from ignorance. I got flamed for it when I made that post on another forum, but I saved a copy of it so I could do an "I told you to so" to everyone. {{{I was 14 when I wrote the post, I wasn't the most mature then (or now). }}}

http://eldorion.com/tolkienpurism/hobbitchanges/prediction/

[Pettytyrant101]

Thanks for that Blue, I couldnt remember if it included much in the way of details or dialogue.
I wouldnt think what is there is enough to warrant its inclusion so I would guess they will do their usual, dump any dialogue actually written by Tolkien and replace it with their own subpar  fanfic nonsense serving their own alterations.

[Bluebottle]

There's about half a page of introduction before that dialogue, but I don't expect much to survive the Boyens/Walsh treatment either.