The Desolation of Smaug pre-release thread [3] [SPOILERS]
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Re: The Desolation of Smaug pre-release thread [3] [SPOILERS]
by bungobaggins Tue Dec 03, 2013 4:28 pm
Person who was at the premiere posts plot spoilers on imdb. Pretty much confirms everything we already knew.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1170358/board/thread/222905157?p=1
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1170358/board/thread/222905157?p=1
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Re: The Desolation of Smaug pre-release thread [3] [SPOILERS]
by Eldorion Tue Dec 03, 2013 4:58 pm
- Super Mega Spoilers:
- Climax: There's a way overlong and unnecessary fight inside the mountain with Smaug and the dwarves, which ends with them spilling molten gold on Smaug and him flying off to Laketown, where it cuts to black. Seriously.
Dol Guldur: Gandalf goes there with Radagast who he later sends away. Gandalf then gets ambushed by Azog and his orcs. Then the Necromancer appears as a black fog which turns into Sauron's eye and his power pins Gandalf to a wall. The last we see of him, he's in a cage. This kinda doesn't make sense because in LOTR Gandalf acts so surprised about Sauron's return
Wow, that's dumb.
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Re: The Desolation of Smaug pre-release thread [3] [SPOILERS]
by Lancebloke Tue Dec 03, 2013 5:06 pm
I must have missed that discussion.... ???Radaghast wrote:My bigger problem is with the handling of Boromir's death scene itself, but I know I'm in a very small minority there.
Re the spoiler....
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Re: The Desolation of Smaug pre-release thread [3] [SPOILERS]
by Radaghast Tue Dec 03, 2013 5:10 pm
I don't think there has been a discussion. It's just a(nother) gripe I have about the movie(s).Lancebloke wrote:I must have missed that discussion.... ???Radaghast wrote:My bigger problem is with the handling of Boromir's death scene itself, but I know I'm in a very small minority there.
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Re: The Desolation of Smaug pre-release thread [3] [SPOILERS]
by azriel Tue Dec 03, 2013 5:10 pm
Im thinking watching "Alice in wonderland" in 3D after a snort is more understandable & makes better sense than this outrageous PJ stuff ! What will BO5A's be like ? The culmination of the story ?
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Re: The Desolation of Smaug pre-release thread [3] [SPOILERS]
by Eldorion Tue Dec 03, 2013 5:12 pm
- Thrain:
- There's a brief flashback between Gandalf and Thorin where they talk about Thrain wandering in the woods.
The film opens with a flashback of Gandalf meeting Thorin at the Inn at the Prancing Pony.
- Azog and Bolg:
- Sauron wants his army [Eldo note: the orc one shown in the trailer]. It shows that evil is rising.
Azog is summoned to Dol Gadur (whatever it's called) and instructed by the Necromancer to stay. He summons Bolg to continue his quest to kill the dwarves as he cannot
Bolg is CGI like Azog.
Bolg doesn't come across as much more than a henchman of Azog. He takes over the hunt when Azog gets summoned back to the Necromancer. He and Legolas have a fight at the end.
- Do the Dwarves split up?:
- Q: Do some dwarves indeed stay back in the Lake Town? Which ones if you can remember? Also do we see what they are up to when the company is in Erebor?
A: Yup! Fili, Kili, and the one with the funny hat don't remember his name [Eldo note: it's Bofur]. We do see what they are up to, but I thought it was another needless filler sequence.
- LOTR character cameos:
- I don't remember seeing him [Elrond] at all.
Gullum is nether mentioned or shown. Galadriel appears once as a vision to Gandalf and summons him away from Mirkwood. Gimli is mentioned as one of the sons to the dwalves in a funny scene. Has to do with a locket with pictures.
- Bard:
- I liked Bard and his family. His family name is shamed and thus holds a pariah status. His children are cute and helpful (just not when the Orcs attack).
- Tauriel:
- [Q: Is Tauriel in love with a dwarf?]
A: Well, "he is tall for a dwarf." Then again, it could be an unhealthy dose of simple affection...nah.
- Beorn's introduction:
- No. Beorn the bear chases the dwarfs to his home. Once inside Gandalf explains that they just locked themselves in from the master of the house. That they should wait until he's in "human" form as you can't reason with the bear. Bilbo wakes up to a giant bee on his face (laughs from audience) and head to the table where Beorn is pouring ale into the mugs of the dwarves. Gandalf is doing most of the talking. Then decides to help because "I hate dwarves, but I hate orcs even more." He protects them on their way to Mirkwood.
Beorn protects the dwarves from Azog's hunting party until they get to Mirkwood. He briefly mentions "something evil" in Mirkwood.
- PJ's cameo:
- One more thing. Peter Jackson cameo is literally the first person we see in the film lol. [Eldo note: this would mean he's in Bree based on earlier comments]
- Miscellaneous:
- You can believe me or not. I really don't care. But when you see the movie for yourself you'll see that everything I said matches up.
Neither Tauriel nor Legolas contribute anything significant to the story.
Action is still cartoony, but overall is more fun and exciting and there's more of it! The final action sequence goes on far to long and wasn't even necessary for advancing the story.
Radagast is Radagast. He's only in a few scenes and doesn't really do anything.
Necromancer side plot is okay. There really isn't much to say about it. It's neither great nor terrible.
As for the film's conclusion, without spoiling anything, be ready for the largest collective audience groan you've ever heard.
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Re: The Desolation of Smaug pre-release thread [3] [SPOILERS]
by bungobaggins Tue Dec 03, 2013 5:12 pm
So, is Thrain going to be in Dol Guldur at all? I didn't see any mention of it from that person, nor did anyone ask.Eldorion wrote:
- Spoiler:
Dol Guldur: Gandalf goes there with Radagast who he later sends away. Gandalf then gets ambushed by Azog and his orcs. Then the Necromancer appears as a black fog which turns into Sauron's eye and his power pins Gandalf to a wall. The last we see of him, he's in a cage. This kinda doesn't make sense because in LOTR Gandalf acts so surprised about Sauron's return
Wow, that's dumb.
And yes, it's all dumb. The whole thing is stupid.
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Re: The Desolation of Smaug pre-release thread [3] [SPOILERS]
by Lancebloke Tue Dec 03, 2013 5:17 pm
Well come on then!?!?!Radaghast wrote:I don't think there has been a discussion. It's just a(nother) gripe I have about the movie(s).Lancebloke wrote:I must have missed that discussion.... ???Radaghast wrote:My bigger problem is with the handling of Boromir's death scene itself, but I know I'm in a very small minority there.
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Re: The Desolation of Smaug pre-release thread [3] [SPOILERS]
by Eldorion Tue Dec 03, 2013 5:21 pm
I didn't see any mention of a direct appearance by Thrain either, which is odd since a character who we all thought was Thrain has appeared in trailers. Although to be honest, while I definitely remember him being in the first trailer (back when there were only two films), I don't recall if he has been in the DOS ones.bungobaggins wrote:So, is Thrain going to be in Dol Guldur at all? I didn't see any mention of it from that person, nor did anyone ask.
And yes, it's all dumb. The whole thing is stupid.
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Re: The Desolation of Smaug pre-release thread [3] [SPOILERS]
by Eldorion Tue Dec 03, 2013 5:22 pm
We get it.Pettytyrant101 wrote:And I dont think there should be any sense of triumph, however small in those moments around Boromirs death, its a seeming moment of hopelessness in the book, its all fallen apart.
It's somewhat different than in the book. That doesn't mean it's bad or cheap.Edit: oh crap, top of page. See this post onward for major DOS spoilers we're discussing.
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Re: The Desolation of Smaug pre-release thread [3] [SPOILERS]
by azriel Tue Dec 03, 2013 5:23 pm
Oh bolly-olly-hollyhocks ! And my son wants to go see this ?! and take ME?!!
"No, nurse! I dont wanna! "
"No, nurse! I dont wanna! "
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Re: The Desolation of Smaug pre-release thread [3] [SPOILERS]
by bungobaggins Tue Dec 03, 2013 5:26 pm
Pretty sure he was in the first DOS trailer.Eldorion wrote:I didn't see any mention of a direct appearance by Thrain either, which is odd since a character who we all thought was Thrain has appeared in trailers. Although to be honest, while I definitely remember him being in the first trailer (back when there were only two films), I don't recall if he has been in the DOS ones.bungobaggins wrote:So, is Thrain going to be in Dol Guldur at all? I didn't see any mention of it from that person, nor did anyone ask.
And yes, it's all dumb. The whole thing is stupid.
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Re: The Desolation of Smaug pre-release thread [3] [SPOILERS]
by Radaghast Tue Dec 03, 2013 5:29 pm
Lancebloke wrote:Well come on then!?!?!Radaghast wrote:I don't think there has been a discussion. It's just a(nother) gripe I have about the movie(s).Lancebloke wrote:I must have missed that discussion.... ???Radaghast wrote:My bigger problem is with the handling of Boromir's death scene itself, but I know I'm in a very small minority there.
I just didn't like how the scene was executed.
1) Seems silly to me that there'd be just one orc with a bow instead of many orc archers (as there were in the Mines). The orc with the bow is, of course, Lurtz, who, as PT suggested, is mostly there for someone for Aragorn to have a big climactic melee with.
2) After each arrow, the orcs Boromir is hewing down all seem to stop attacking as if to give him a breather (very considerate). Then Boromir manfully shrugs off the shock of the arrow and renews his attack, and only then do the orcs start fighting again
3) Too much time after each arrow to show Boromir's reaction, as if to milk more sympathy from the viewer.
Again, just my perception of the scene. And, of course, it's hardly the only scene I have a problem with.
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Re: The Desolation of Smaug pre-release thread [3] [SPOILERS]
by Lancebloke Tue Dec 03, 2013 5:41 pm
I can see your points there. I imagine, as you say, that Lurtz was specifically designed for task of taking down Boromir and getting chopped by Aragorn. I suppose they had to make him different some how.
I hadn't noticed the attacking part, but now that you mention it... yeah, that does happen. Suppose you could excuse that for thinking he was already down until he doesnt go down.
Last one... PJ was trying to make the most impact he could for Boromir's redemption. He had to make us care about him somehow or the scenes afterwards wouldn't have had any emotional impact. Sure it could have been done differently but I thought it worked.
I hadn't noticed the attacking part, but now that you mention it... yeah, that does happen. Suppose you could excuse that for thinking he was already down until he doesnt go down.
Last one... PJ was trying to make the most impact he could for Boromir's redemption. He had to make us care about him somehow or the scenes afterwards wouldn't have had any emotional impact. Sure it could have been done differently but I thought it worked.
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Re: The Desolation of Smaug pre-release thread [3] [SPOILERS]
by Eldorion Tue Dec 03, 2013 5:42 pm
- Smaug:
- Q: Can you tell us more about the dragon? Was he scary? And does he die in this film?
A: Scary, menacing, bad-ass and intelligent. In a word, deadly. He is the whole third act so 30+ minutes maybe give or take. No he is very much alive at the end and he has death on his mind. His will is set and only death can break it.
[Eldo note: The guy was asked repeatedly if Smaug had two legs or four but he wasn't sure because he wasn't watching for that.]
- The Necromancer:
- Q: Does the Necromancer speak to Gandalf? If so, what kinds of things does he say, and what does his voice sound like?
A: He does and has a deep, dark voice. Mostly taunts Gandalf on his true identity before he reveals himself in all his dark glory. Gandalf is soundly defeated.
He [Gandalf] gets hurled against a wall by Sauron and next time you seem him he's in a cage (like the one Mad Martigan is in when he first meets Willow).
- A crapload about Mirkwood and the Elves:
- Thranduil is aloof and remains that way throughout. He loses it once when a captured orc hints at what's to come and leaves Legolas holding its severed head as the body slumps to the floor. He is sneaky and a coward. Meaning he wants to close off his kingdom and weather the storm. Turiel gets info that fili/kili was poisoned by a mordor arrow and runs off to save him. Legolas pursues and try to get her to come back. She doesn't want to because she doesn't want evil to spread. "Since when do we let evil become more powerful then us? "
He [Legolas] is the good son. He's not that likable to begin with, but there are hints of goodness there. Thranduil tells Turiel not to lead Legolas on as she is not worthy of the prince. So she looks elsewhere. Oh what a handsome, tall dwarf I have locked up. Let's chat and laugh it up while, just above, there is a clearly jealous Legolas.
Legolas likes Turiel. Thranduil tells Turiel you're not good enough for my son. Turiel takes a "liking" to Kili. It seems mutual. There's a spark there. I don't know if it's love or affection. When Kili gets mortally wounded with a mordor arrow, Turiel leaves to save him. Legolas follows to collect her. Near death at Bard's, Turiel saves him using Elvish medicine, he looks up at Turiel who's bathed in a bright light. He is delirious and says he can't believe she's there for him.
Thranduil asks Turiel if she likes Legolas. She smiles and says I'm just a lowly captain of the guard. Thranduils confirms and says, Yup pretty much. Her smile disappears. So she doesn't have the king's blessings so she blows some steam, by talking to Kili who is 3 quarters her size maybe. There was one shot that made me chuckle with their height differences.
Turiel and Legolas have ample screen time.
She's [Tauriel's] the moral compass of that band of elves and stands as a stark contrast to Thranduil's coldness/cowardice. It's her that changes Legolas from passive observer to Middle Earth champion. It's clear to me that we're meant to like her.
Q: Is there something of a talk between Thorin and Thranduil and what is it?
A: Thranduil wants the Arkenstone and Throin says beat it, I hate you, you turned your back on me once and you'll do it again. Dwalin upset as the bargain was their one chance to be set free.
- Framing scenes:
- Q: Do Frodo / Old Bilbo or Saruman show up in the film? Also is there like a prologue sequence, Peter Jackson always seems to have these
No on all accounts. [Eldo note: but there's a flashback to Thorin and Gandalf in Bree at the beginning, though, apparently.]
- More on Azog and Bolg:
- Q: Other than Azog and Bolg, are there any orcs with lines?
A: One other. The one that summons Azog. He seemed to be a superior.
Q: You said Bolg looks CGI so is it anything like what he looks like on Google with the beard and all ?
A: I don't recall a beard, but he has a weird metal plate on his head.
- Lake-town:
- Q: How lengthy are the Dale/Girion flashbacks?
A: Not lengthy at all.
A: Some of the dwarves (4 I think) stay behind and they get ambushed at Bard's. Legolas and Turiel to the rescue.
Q: So Bolg and the orcs attack Laketown that much is confirmed.
A: Bolg and the orcs attack the 4 dwarves left behind.
Q: How do they drive them off ? Just fighting them or else? Who pushed away Bolg ?
A: Legolas drives them off as Turiel stays with Kili.
Q: Do we see a lot of Thorin, Balin and dwarves kicking their asses?
A: They're already at the Lonely Mountain when the Orcs arrive. They do kick asses while riding barrels. Bombur for the win!
Q: Do we see the dwarf Dain Ironfoot in it ?
A: Who?
Q: Is the Master of Laketown (Stephen Fry) corrupt ? Does he sell the dwarves to the orcs?
A: Yes he and his lackey are corrupt. No he embraces the dwarves, because Thorin agrees to share the gold (yay right.)
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Re: The Desolation of Smaug pre-release thread [3] [SPOILERS]
by Pettytyrant101 Tue Dec 03, 2013 5:48 pm
Hideous sounding, absolutely hideous. 
And worryingly immediately brings a host of purist editing problems to mind.
And worryingly immediately brings a host of purist editing problems to mind.
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Re: The Desolation of Smaug pre-release thread [3] [SPOILERS]
by Eldorion Tue Dec 03, 2013 5:49 pm
Has the crabbit meter completely melted down yet? 
And yeah, I was wondering if you're going to be able to salvage anything you'd be pleased with from this film.
And yeah, I was wondering if you're going to be able to salvage anything you'd be pleased with from this film.
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Re: The Desolation of Smaug pre-release thread [3] [SPOILERS]
by Radaghast Tue Dec 03, 2013 5:49 pm
Thanks for more reasons not to see the movie, Eldo!
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Re: The Desolation of Smaug pre-release thread [3] [SPOILERS]
by Radaghast Tue Dec 03, 2013 5:50 pm
Yeah, better not even try "purify" this onPettytyrant101 wrote:Hideous sounding, absolutely hideous.
And worryingly immediately brings a host of purist editing problems to mind.
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Re: The Desolation of Smaug pre-release thread [3] [SPOILERS]
by Pettytyrant101 Tue Dec 03, 2013 5:50 pm
Has the crabbit meter completely melted down yet?- Eldo
No, but its so close to the red that there is no chance it will stand actually having to watch this shit.
No, but its so close to the red that there is no chance it will stand actually having to watch this shit.
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Re: The Desolation of Smaug pre-release thread [3] [SPOILERS]
by Radaghast Tue Dec 03, 2013 5:52 pm
Perhaps, but it goes hand in hand with the other point, about how the orcs stop fighting after each arrow punctures him. Boromir shouldn't have time for a reaction.Lancebloke wrote:Last one... PJ was trying to make the most impact he could for Boromir's redemption. He had to make us care about him somehow or the scenes afterwards wouldn't have had any emotional impact. Sure it could have been done differently but I thought it worked.
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Re: The Desolation of Smaug pre-release thread [3] [SPOILERS]
by Eldorion Tue Dec 03, 2013 5:53 pm
It's always interesting reading people's thoughts about these movies on non-Tolkien forums. The buzz coming out of the premiere (the IMDb forum spoilers don't seem to have spread very far yet) is overwhelmingly positive as expected, and everyone is praising the action scenes. To be fair, the IMDb guys also said the action was awesome and that the film was at least somewhat better than AUJ.
The buzz coming out of the premiere (the IMDb forum spoilers don't seem to have spread very far yet) is overwhelmingly positive as expected, and everyone is praising the action scenes. To be fair, the IMDb guys also said the action was awesome and that the film was at least somewhat better than AUJ.
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Re: The Desolation of Smaug pre-release thread [3] [SPOILERS]
by bungobaggins Tue Dec 03, 2013 6:00 pm
"Turiel"
I think I'm going to start calling her Turdiel.
I think I'm going to start calling her Turdiel.
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Re: The Desolation of Smaug pre-release thread [3] [SPOILERS]
by Radaghast Tue Dec 03, 2013 6:02 pm
How about Turdy-Smell
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