Re: The Desolation of Smaug pre-release thread [3] [SPOILERS]

[bungobaggins]

I'm going to try to watch the clip now.

[Eldorion]

Found this on the torn forum concerning the dialogue in that scene,

I quit, I'm done. That comment is just. What is this, I don't even.

To be fair, there are a few people in that thread pointing out that it's a bad line, but it's definitely fanboy overload. I need to walk away so I don't get sucked in for hours.

[Eldorion]

Well from my point of view people are just late to the crabbit party- I have been complaining about the Covens inablity to write or even understand Tolkien's style since LotR's- with its lack of book dialogue, modernised dialogue in its place, anachronistic words and sentence structuring and a general lack of appreciation and disrespect for the language.
Yeah TH is even worse because they have made even more up as a percentage of the whole than they did with LotR's- but the standard is about the same- its just now there is more of their own stuff in larger sustained chunks its even more glaring.

I've been thinking about this a fair bit last night and this morning, and I'm pretty sure that most of the most memorable lines from LOTR came from Tolkien either directly or indirectly.  But the Coven was at least able to mix and match stuff, change context, and in the end create great cinematic scenes from Tolkien's material even if it wasn't faithful to the spirit (lol) of the original dialogue.  They might have struggled at replicating the feeling of Tolkien's dialogue, but they must have understood it enough to tweak it in that matter.  Maybe the difference with AUJ is simply that they have so much more space to fill with so little source material to go on.

That still doesn't explain the "burglarhobbit" fiasco, but whatevs.

[Lancebloke]

During RotK last week... I did wonder why they need the whole section with Gollum talking about what he was gonna do with them.... like a step by step idiots guide of what will be coming up in the next half hour. Seems like it was set up purposefully so they could get the water-reflection-split-personality thing in there.

[bungobaggins]

During RotK last week... I did wonder why they need the whole section with Gollum talking about what he was gonna do with them.... like a step by step idiots guide of what will be coming up in the next half hour. Seems like it was set up purposefully so they could get the water-reflection-split-personality thing in there.

Because the audience is dumb-dumb and needs everything explained to them.

[Lancebloke]

I know that. Have you seen Batman Begins when the train is heading for Wayne Tower near the end and the old man in the water station has to repeat that if the train gets there everything is gonna blow!! In that case I can see how you are catering to morons who cant follow the plot. In this case it happens before the event... its kinda extra patronising by saying 'we cant even trust you to follow what is going to happen and remind you later... in fact we are going to have to prepare you for what is coming up.'

[bungobaggins]

Well, I watched the clip. It was really hard not to look away, especially because I knew that line of dialogue was coming ('You like death?'). Ugh.

The delivery of this line was just as bad: "Answer the question, filth."

That's what it looks like written down. Here's what it sounded like: "answerthequestionfilth."

Flat delivery, one note all the way through, no brief pause before the word filth. I think if I see this in theaters I'm going to be embarrassed just going up to the box office to purchase my ticket.  

Cashier: "Hello, how are you today?"

Me: "Fine, thanks for asking, and yourself?"

Cashier: "I'm doing well. How can I help you today?"

Me: "I'd like one ticket for The Hobbit: The Disembowelment of Shmoog."

Cashier: "I'm sorry, sir, you're going to have to speak up."

Me: "I'd like one ticket for The Hobbit: The Destitution of Shlock."

Cashier: "Sir, please speak up, or I'll have to ask you to step out of line."

Me: "I'd like one ticket for The Hobbit: The Discoloration of Smudge."

Cashier: "You mean: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug?"

Me: "Yes, my apologies."

[Mrs Figg]

It's an unreal experience reading the giddy comments that follow something that bad.  TORN idiots.  Even the sets and the orc makeup look horrible: more like a stage play than a hundred million dollar film.  The poor actors were trying so hard to turn it into something, but just couldn't.

Found this on the torn forum concerning the dialogue in that scene,

This is better than quite a lot of what Tolkien wrote in the Hobbit.

I quit, I'm done. That comment is just. What is this, I don't even.

''This is better than quite a lot of what Tolkien wrote in the Hobbit''   wow

[Mrs Figg]

Well from my point of view people are just late to the crabbit party- I have been complaining about the Covens inablity to write or even understand Tolkien's style since LotR's- with its lack of book dialogue, modernised dialogue in its place, anachronistic words and sentence structuring and a general lack of appreciation and disrespect for the language.
Yeah TH is even worse because they have made even more up as a percentage of the whole than they did with LotR's- but the standard is about the same- its just now there is more of their own stuff in larger sustained chunks its even more glaring.

I've been thinking about this a fair bit last night and this morning, and I'm pretty sure that most of the most memorable lines from LOTR came from Tolkien either directly or indirectly.  But the Coven was at least able to mix and match stuff, change context, and in the end create great cinematic scenes from Tolkien's material even if it wasn't faithful to the spirit (lol) of the original dialogue.  They might have struggled at replicating the feeling of Tolkien's dialogue, but they must have understood it enough to tweak it in that matter.  Maybe the difference with AUJ is simply that they have so much more space to fill with so little source material to go on.

That still doesn't explain the "burglarhobbit" fiasco, but whatevs.

Totally agree Eldo. Either directly or indirectly its pretty near the mark.

[Norc]

SPOILER ALERT! CLIP FROM THAT MTV THIGN
http://www.theonering.net/torwp/2013/11/11/82132-see-the-desolation-of-smaug-clip-shown-at-the-mtv-european-music-awards/

[Pettytyrant101]

I was just speaking to Nagual, who I just managed to convince to go see AUJ with me last year and he said it took all his control not to walk out halfway through.

Needless to say he is not going back for more, and on the strength of this stuff, coupled with the the removal of the Beorn introduction, the whole Tauriel and Legolas thing, turning the barrel escape into a chase sequence, Azog being in it, the Necromancer getting in on the scene, Nazgul tombs, Radagast, no happy prophecy waiting to be fulfilled at Lake Town, a testicle eating Stephen Fry (ok that one might not to be too unusual but at least normally he keeps it in private!), and Bard, Legolas' bastard human twin, I am not sure I can stomach it either.*   

Unfortunately I shall have to due to contractual obligations with Pure Publications to provide a NotP film review (I really need to start reading the small print, but in an Angmar and Son contract even finding the small print is a task in itself  )

[Norc]

ooooh, i split the thread

[Tinuviel]

yerp, just watched it. After reading the dialogue, I wanted to throw up. After watching the clip, I cringed, but at least I didn't roll out of my chair and start moaning on the ground like I'd been shot! So it wasn't as bad as I was expecting. I thought Orlando's acting was better. Someone said the actors were really trying hard to make something out of the shit they were given, and I really think it shows. They were trying really hard, almost too hard.
It's just stupid that line about letting him go.Not even a dead fish would believe that. And the cut between Thranduil cutting off the orc's head and it popping off was horribly done!!!!!!
The elves were nice to look at, but ughhhhhhh.

[Norc]

i love how lego looks at the head like "ugh, dad, not again"

[Tinuviel]

i love how lego looks at the head like "ugh, dad, not again"

   Thranduil gives 0 fucks about orcs. Hence why his line earlier was so stupid.

[Lancebloke]

i love how lego looks at the head like "ugh, dad, not again"

I think that little look was the only thing I liked about the trailer.

[Norc]

yeah... i have to admit, i agree with u there. although tauriel wasn't too bad, i mean given the dialogue..

[Tinuviel]

I think my expectations have been lowered too low, because I thought all of them did pretty well.  Perhaps some Buckie will fix this... 

[Mrs Figg]

that was shockingly bad. We are so far in Eragon country we will never find our way out.  

[Pettytyrant101]

You are definitely in need of more buckie Your Maj, I will just order up some more from the supplier, where's your credit card?

[Tinuviel]

Just tell them I'll cut of their bloody heads if they don't give it to me for free!!!!!!!!! I WON'T promise to spare them first either!!!!!!!!

[Pettytyrant101]

That will do nicely.  

[Bluebottle]

I think it's definately true that the Lord of the Rings seemed truer to Tolkien because there were so much more original story they had to tell. So changes in the Lord of the Rings would often limit themselves to rewrites of Tolkiens words and story. The parts of the films that are their original work, like elves turning of at Helms Deep, stand out as obviously weaker than the rest of the material.

With the Hobbit there's so much less story so a larger proportion of the writning has to be original and that reflects on the quality of the movie.

[Pettytyrant101]

I'd agree with that Bluebottle- its not that the standard of their original writing has fallen, or that their ideas have got worse, they haven't LotR's was full of invented bits that all stand out as being the weakest parts of the films, its just they are telling, as a percent of the whole, far less of the TH story than they are making stuff up.

[Mrs Figg]

I actually like some of the made up stuff from LOTR, I like Elves in Helms Deep, its not canon but its fun for 5 minutes until they all disappear and Haldir cops for it.