Petty's Purist LotR Edits [3]

Eldo did you give TT a watch? Whilst its still there. Helms Deep later!

I just got back from chaperoning my brother at a concert (which I sort of regret offering to do ) so I'm too tired to watch it tonight, sorry!

Not even less than an hour to spare-have a buckie- Ill be suprised if its still there by time you wake- although you never know.

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Whilst I agree it doesnt give it away completely having a Gandalf reminder right at the start is a pretty hefty clue he is returning later in the film.
But mainly it was for pacing, and it works fine and more naturally for me as part of Gandalfs account to Aragorn and co of what happened.

And yeah, the posters a bit of a spoiler!

 the book is a bit of a spoiler.

So I decided to watch the TTT video before going to bed after all. I was really impressed by your editing, especially in the first two-thirds (maybe three-quarters) of this section. I noticed most of the spots where you took out dialogue simply because I'm familiar with the original cuts, but I was really impressed with how well it flowed. TTT starts so damn slowly, especially in the EE cut, that it was a bit strange being thrust right into it like this but I thought it worked well. My only significant complaint about the first two-thirds or so of the video is that by removing Gimli's comic relief lines he's left with practically no screen time or character. I understand why you did this, but personally I didn't think any of his comic scenes in this section were that egregious, other than the running jokes.

Oh, I forgot, one thing that did stand out to me was the decision to have Merry and Pippin see Isengard so early in this cut. That seemed really strange since seeing Saruman's army depart is a major element of the build-up to Helm's Deep, but I'll wait till I see your version of Helm's Deep in full before saying too much about this.

Actually though, what jumped out at me was how much stuff you left the same, though maybe that was out of necessity. I was surprised to see Orc cannibalism, Gandalf's brief appearance before Merry and Pippin, the exorcism of Saruman, Theodred's funeral, and Theoden's decision to abandon Edoras all left more or less intact since none of those had a place in the book. I felt like you tried to soften the decision to abandon Edoras by cutting out a few lines about how it looked like a defeat, but that just seemed to be ignoring the obvious. It's probably impossible to work around the abandoning of Edoras since that affected the course of the rest of the film, but I thought the removing of lines like "this is not a defeat" was strange, and it made for some uncharacteristically choppy editing compared to how smoothly the rest of this section flowed.

Anyway, I am extremely tired so I don't know if these comments really make sense, but I'm continuing to have fun watching the edits. Book III is one of the my favorite parts of the original book and TTT is in many ways my favorite of the films so I'm excited to see what you do moving forward.

I was tired also last night but determined to watch. I agree sseing Gandalf & Balrog & his Christ like resurection was a bad move I feel on PJs part, really did detract from when Merry & Pippin come across some sinister person lurking in a forest that is steeped in mystery & tales of creepyness & fear are told of it. Trouble is, no matter what you know or how you feel, you have only got PJs visuals to tinker around with. Where PJ strayed off the path, any nit-picking you do will only make in more non sensesical & stray even further, leaving you wonder WTF is going on now ! I think this version is trying to tell a non book reading person how this story goes, trying to keep as close to the book is a feat in its self considering PJ couldnt 100%, 90% ? 80% ? any takers ?

Wow Eldo- you actually watched- I was only teasing but thanks for taking the time, especially when you were tired.

'by removing Gimli's comic relief lines he's left with practically no screen time or character.'

On balance I prefer Gimli do have an undefined character than the one PJ gave him.
Obviously Id rather have book character there- but not possible sadly given PJ's treatment of the character.

'the decision to have Merry and Pippin see Isengard so early in this cut. That seemed really strange since seeing Saruman's army depart is a major element of the build-up to Helm's Deep'

Every Merry/Pippin/ents scene has been moved- they see the army leaving which gives an explanation for where the kids on horse back come from reporting the westfold has been invaded. And as the ent moot in my version lasts several days not one night it also starts earlier.
There is no build up in mine to the army leaving, no Saruman Hitler rally either.
THe reason for that is the same reason I couldnt have the Gandalf/Balrog scene at the start- I decided in order to structure it like Tolkien to stick to his rules- one of which is you dont get to know about something unless either a member of the company is present or relates the tale.
Like the book in my edit you are always with one or more of the main characters (the only exception to this is one scene set in Lothlorien later concerning Arwen) I never cut to third party characters otherwise.

"I thought the removing of lines like "this is not a defeat" was strange, and it made for some uncharacteristically choppy editing compared to how smoothly the rest of this section flowed."

My main concern regards this bit was Gandalf- in PJ's he thinks going to Helms Deep is a bad idea and for some reason they would be better at Edoras where they could be easily overpowered! As Gandalf approves and recommends going to Helms Deep in the book, that was what I mainly tried to rectify. The defeat line therefore doesnt fit, as they are enacting a plan, not retreating in my edit.

"what jumped out at me was how much stuff you left the same,"- Eldo

"Where PJ strayed off the path, any nit-picking you do will only make in more non sensesical & stray even further, leaving you wonder WTF is going on now !" - Azriel

Quite right Azriel, its partly necessity and partly a desire to leave a film that flows. If I had cut purely on what was cannon and what was not it would all be unbearably choppy to watch- my edits are a balancing act between using what I can and trying to show that the story could have been structured and followed the book plot and characters closer, if they had tried to.
But I feel the point is not made if the end result is too messy to enjoy still as a film.

And there will be increasing choppiness is places I should warn you ( I negated as much as I could manage) caused by PJ's increasing divergence from book from here on in.

So glad you are finally getting to see them however- Helms Deep tonight!

The start of TTT as a spoiler never occurred to me, probably because I read the book but, yeah, it does reveal a bit too much. There's little chance Gandalf would appear that earlier in a film only to die.

That is my thinking too Raddy. To remind the viewer of last we saw him and to show a continuation of that is rather foreshadowing his return later in the film. A foreshadowing I think spoils those actual scenes.
Especially when we have Eomer talking of Saruman robed in white wandering about, and then have Treebeard hand over the hobbits to the 'white wizard'- its all a bit blatantly obvious thanks to that opening to the non book viewer that its Gandalf.

And that's not the only instance of PJ killing suspense. For example, when Frodo finds Gandalf absent at Bree, the viewer doesn't share his anxiety, because we know what's happened to him.

Yes, its a PJ trait to give away to much too soon to the viewer.

Fortunetly the Gandalf/Bree one is one I managed to sort by moving the Gandalf/Saruman account to Rivendell.
However it then leaves his absence at Bree underplayed- and could have done very much with Aragorns lines concering Gandalfs absence to add weight and worry to it, as it does in the book.
Unfortunetly PJ left all that out and in fact his version of why the hobbits take up with aragorn makes no sense at all.

In the film he drags Frodo into a room and then is confronted by Sam and co brandishing a chair.
Next scene the hobbits are all happily asleep in this strangers company and the Riders attack the inn.
We then get them leaving Bree and some walking montage and are told they are trusting him because they have no choice, but they already have trusted him going to sleep with him on guard over them, and the montage seems to take place over a couple of days at least- its looks like it has snowed amongst other things- yet at the end of it we get a conversation about breakfasts that would indicate they have only just left Bree and its at best the next morning and time for second breakfast.
It doesnt make any sense at all.

The funny thing is, the book does offer a hint as to Gandalf's whereabouts in the form of a vision dreamt by Frodo. I really can't see how this wouldn't have worked for the movie.

As for the other stuff, I hadn't even really considered much of that before, but it's seems rather amusing when you describe it.

I think as book readers its hard to seperate the two when you watch.
In PJ's version, if you strip away bringing book knowledge to the table, a lot of it makes no sense.
Characters do things because they do them in the book, but more often than not the reasons and motivations for their actions are changed or absent altogether.
In the above case we are offered no motivation or reasoning for the hobbits taking up with Aragorn or their almost instant trust of him- in the book Sam still suspects of him of working with the Riders until after Weathertop.
But as Pj removes all the reasons and motivations the characters do what they do in the film purely because thats what they do in the book. But without any longer making any sense taken just on their own merits as PJ presents the story.

Ok going to start uploading the next part in about half an hour.
There will be two parts tonight all going well- this is because of the one hour length limit- it was 1 hour 2 minutes!  
So Ive split it roughly 40mins to 20.
The plan is to have the first bit up for about 5.30-6pm. and the shorter last part will be up for 7.30-8.

Will that be ok for you Azriel, and hopefully Eldo too and anyone else that wants to see the Helms Deep bit.

Legolas sliding down steps, bitch!

I'm going to be busy with various Fourth of July celebrations starting with some early fireworks tonight so I probably won't be able to watch Helm's Deep. :/ I'm glad I got to watch the first part of TTT last night though, it was fun. I'll respond to your comments in more detail in a bit.

♫ Legolas has gone surfin', surfin' down the stairs ♫

Its about halfway through the encoding process- so not long-about 15 minutes or less.

Please dont say you had no choice but to include Leggy promoting sensible head gear whilst surfing down fooking Helms fooking Deep !!
pleeeeeeeeease ??!!

Youll be able to see for yourself Azriel in a few moments (but Im pretty sure you can guess!)

 

this is a turnip sherlock, isn't it?

CONTENT REJECTED! #thesystemworks #copyrighttheftisnojoke

Final part of book 3-



If you were watching TT as a film youd bet 1 hour 58 minutes into it now.