FREEDOM!!!! [2]

It seems like a lot of the anti-Scottish independence sentiment in America (from those people who bother to follow British Isles news), and probably the UK too, is based on this sense that no one in their right mind would willingly stop being a world power.  Whereas much of the pro-Scottish independence movement is like "we're perfectly happy to be a modestly successful, small northern European nation that doesn't have to play 'keeping up with the Chinases' out of a misplaced sense of national pride."

"we're perfectly happy to be a modestly successful, small northern European nation that doesn't have to play 'keeping up with the Chinases' out of a misplaced sense of national pride."- Eldo

Well observed Eldo- you are right on the money.

"if you insist on Indipendance i am sure the attitude in Westminster will be you made your bed, now lie on it."- Mrs Figg

I think Figg that if Independence happens it will be England who will have made their bed and have to lie in it- it will be the English government who will have to explain why cuts are needed to make up for the shortfall in revenue from Scotland, and be left t them to explain why they have been telling the English for decades they subsides us.

Sorry Dave- we shaped the US, I think thats was enough! (Maybe we can see about doing you a deal as the bulk of our whisky exports are east not west- China/Japan ect)

meh if you say so, I am not convinced.

The figures speak for themselves- the governments own reports back it up (even if they have to classify them to try not to  ) ex-Chancellors say its so, independent economists agree- Im not sure what more evidence you require.

Nor am I sure why you are so hostile to Scots having what most others already do- their independence and the right to be a nation.

I keep meaning to have a go at finding this place, its supposed to be in my bit of the country, somewhere-

"Evonium, claimed to be the coronation site and seat of government of 40 kings, is a purported lost city in Scotland"

Tv debate on the Welfare State and Independence from last night- with SNP Deputy Leader and her Scottish Labour counterpart. Its a suitably Scottish fiesty debate.  

Pettytyrant101 wrote:The figures speak for themselves- the governments own reports back it up (even if they have to classify them to try not to  ) ex-Chancellors say its so, independent economists agree- Im not sure what more evidence you require.

Nor am I sure why you are so hostile to Scots having what most others already do- their independence and the right to be a nation.

not hostile, dont really give a monkeys, I just like riling you up into crabbit explosions, keeps you on your toeses.  

Are you sure thats all it is? Its just the tone of some of your post seems to me rather as if you are taking Scottish independence as if it were some sort of personal attack.

how could that even be possible? dont be silly. I am debating with you. are you sure its not because you find it a sensitive subject?

Not all- just some of the phrasing you used- made your own bed lie in it, what will you do when the oil runs out cover the Highlands in windfarms ect seem oddly offensive and cavalier (or just ignorant) and I was wondering where it was coming from , thats all.

it comes from the vast well of cavalier ignorance in my head, that and being a sarcastic Mancunian, or havent you realized that yet? its what we do best, a bit like some Scottish people thinking everything they do they do it best. its not personal, I dont mind either way if Scotland becomes Indipendant, I do mind however having England maligned every 5 minutes without comeback, thats normal I think. after all I never say negative things about the Scottish because I know you think its important, and I think you should respect that I dont like insults thrown at my country either. not because I am a raving Nationalist, but because its unpleasant.

I dont think I have said unpleasant things about England- merely stated facts over how the union has been functioning from a Scottish perspective- mainly ones related to money and revenue.
Those are what they are- I stated right at the start of our debate this really has nothing to do with the English people- watch some of the debates that are available- england doesnt even get mentioned (the Tory government does, the inequity in voting balance in the UK does) but we wish the English all the best.
More than that I know many nationalists, myself included, who when thinking about independence take into account that it might be good for us and bad for england.
From the outside England seems to have a bit of an identity crisis which Independence might make worse, and on top of that you will probably be saddled with a Tory government forever and the divide politically and financially between the south and north of England may widen.
We would like a good, steady, neighbour, happy in itself- just not one that makes all our decisions for us thats all.

to be honest I think most English people are pretty cool about the whole Indipendance thing, its not really an issue in the larger sense we have more pressing worries, only the Scottish get up in arms about it, so I dont know why on earth you would think I am attacking you personally, I dont have strong feelings on the matter of Indipendance either way, it doesnt figure on my list. I thought you liked feisty argument anyway??

I didnt think you were attacking me- I felt you were taking the idea of Scots wanting Independence personally and I was wondering why- if I was mistaken in that then sorry, fair enough, just seemed that way in some of your posts.

I agree England doesnt seem to care much either way- but that hardly surprising when government after government have told the English people they pay for us, under those circumstances getting rid of Scotland just means more for the English- unfortunately its a lie that has been peddled over the decades in the hope of keeping Scottish Nationalism at bay because they know England will in fact be worse off not better off- if we really were a burden on England we would have been allowed to go our own way in the 70's- instead of the government of the day classifying documents as secret that said we would do well if independent.

I thought it was amusing that as of last year polls suggested that Scottish independence was more popular in England than it was in Scotland.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/9015374/Britain-divided-over-Scottish-independence.html

'I felt you were taking the idea of Scots wanting Independence personally' Petty

really why on earth would I take it personally? why?? thats Beyond my comprehension. sounds a bit paranoid

Doesnt surprise me at all- if I was English I would see Sottish independence as getting rid of a burden- its just not going to pan out that way in reality.

Figg- simply because the tone of some your posts seems well deliberately flippant. As I said, if I was just mistaken then I was mistaken.

I was expressing my opinion and you have done nothing but insult me for my contribution to the debate. not very polite or fair.

I havent insulted you at all- I merely asked why the tone of some of your posts was as it was- and said it was possible I was misreading the tone. Nothing more.

Pettytyrant101 wrote:
Figg- simply because the tone of some your posts seems well deliberately flippant. As I said, if I was just mistaken then I was mistaken.

Of course she was being flippant...she doesn't care.  

It's like throwing out a scarf for a cat to pounce on. You KNOW the cat's gonna pounce, that's what makes it fun. So if you cared about the scarf you'd never throw it out there.

Pettytyrant101 wrote:I havent insulted you at all- I merely asked why the tone of some of your posts was as it was- and said it was possible I was misreading the tone. Nothing more.

so calling me ignorant isnt insulting? and questioning my motives every post isnt paranoid? I wont bother discussing this subject if I have to agree with everything you say about Indipendance.

halfwise wrote:

Pettytyrant101 wrote:
Figg- simply because the tone of some your posts seems well deliberately flippant. As I said, if I was just mistaken then I was mistaken.

Of course she was being flippant...she doesn't care.  

It's like throwing out a scarf for a cat to pounce on.  You KNOW the cat's gonna pounce, that's what makes it fun.  So if you cared about the scarf you'd never throw it out there.

 

so calling me ignorant isnt insulting?- Figg

Well you did say when the oil ran out what would we do, cover the highlands in windfarms- thats does seem somewhat ignorant of Scotlands other resources and natural wealth, our exports and many other things. It was an observation- I have found many English people simply have very little knowledge of Scotland, its economy or anything else really, and a lack of knowledge is ignorance- that not a bad thing, its just the word for it.

I certainly don't expect you to agree with me on anything let alone everything (I have learned that by now!) but when you make a point and I provide the evidence from various documents, government reports and stuff and you reply 'meh' that is a bit annoying.
That doesnt seem to me like you are engaging in any debate, just being dismissive of anything I say that doesnt tally with your opinion. (That and I happen to think Meh is one of the worst and rudest, dismissive modern words when directed at a person)

I think being called ignorant and cavalier quite dissmissive and rude.

Oh, she's just been playing you.  I'd think a lad who grew up among lasses would be used to this. You couldn't see the little smile dancing about her lips.

But now you're both getting hotted up. Just snort in exasperation and go on with your life.