Doctor Who [4]

whhat ..?

Its a telethon charity event.


A BBC showcase now- Doctor Who in several languages- the german sounds quite like Matt- but the italian sounds like he is making indecent proposals all the time (but thats Italian for you!)
Spoiler warning- completely gives away a big reveal from series 6- so if you plan on watching it dont watch this.

that is wrong in so many ways..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/i/b01r6w9c/


By Rob Leigh
2 Comments

Mysteries of Doctor Who explained: "Unbelievably precious" Doctor Who scripts lost for 50 years discovered in Kent
14 Mar 2013 18:22

Collection of six scripts contain new details about the origins of both the Time Lord and his sonic screwdriver
Ferrari

Scripts from never-seen episodes of Doctor Who have been found in a forgotten box of notes belonging to the writer who devised the concept of the TARDIS

Having been lost for 50 years, prop-maker Jason Onion stumbled upon the “unbelievably precious” six works by writer Anthony Coburn - which contain new details about the origins of both the Doctor and his sonic screwdriver - while researching how to build a replica of the police box time machine to raise money for Children in Need.

Mr Coburn’s widow, Joan Coburn-Moon, had lent dedicated Whovian Jason the haul of paperwork after finding it among her late husband’s possessions in the bedroom of their home in Herne Bay, Kent.

Jason, 37, admitted he was stunned to realise the significance of the discovery after initially believing that they were from the first four episodes, screened in 1963.

He said: “With the consent of Anthony's wife, Joan Coburn-Moon, and other family members, the family lent me a box of his work and I saw the scripts, but put them to one side.

“When I scanned the cover later I realised it didn't have the right title for the first episode.

“I had a look and as soon as I saw the first few pages I knew it was not the episode that had been televised.

“I just sat there, and stared and stared. I wanted to cover them with glass. They are unbelievably precious, and I had them in my hand.


Believed to be early drafts for the first episodes of the sci-fi classic, the collection includes two versions of the first episode, an alternative episode two and another three scripts.

A further script for an episode titled Masters of Luxor was never produced and replaced by the original Dalek serial. Mr Coburn had rewritten them after he felt the background would not fit with the first four episodes.

“You can see that the template for the Daleks came from Anthony,” added Mr Onion.

“You can see in these episodes a device to unlock TARDIS, which became the sonic screwdriver, and the science and regeneration and renewal of the body, which were all created in Anthony's mind."

He continued: “It explains the Tardis's original name, the planet Doctor Who came from and that his granddaughter - Susan in the programmes, but Suzanne in the scripts - was a princess saved from another world.

“He created the cornerstones of Doctor Who that have been expanded and built on ever since.”

Mr Onion has the family's agreement to keep the scripts in a secure location and is discussing plans for a permanent exhibition to commemorate Mr Coburn, possibly linked to the workshop where he builds Tardises under an official BBC licence.

No doubt that will be met with immense enthusiasm from Who fans across the world keen to view the treasure trove of TV artifacts up close.

He said: “It is possible, with continuing support and consent from the Coburn family, that these scripts could be seen publicly and displayed somewhere.

“It may be possible to arrange something for the 50th anniversary of the series in November.”

Australian-born Coburn, who died in 1977, came up with the idea for the iconic spaceship after seeing a police box outside BBC Television Centre.
FROM AROUND THE WEB:

Very interesting Azriel thanks for that I knew about Susan being a rescued princess idea but a lot of the rest was new to me.


New trailer time!



13 days to go!

I thought it was interesting also, I may not join in on the Dr Who debate but I enjoy Dr Who, have done since I was a wee lad ! I used to be shit scared of the Daleks as a kid, till mum took me to the cinema to watch Peter Cushing play Dr Who on the BIG screen., & then a dalek got to close to the floor camera & you saw the guy inside peddling like mad ! I even remember his black shiny sensible shoes he had on ! Wasnt scared of Daleks anymore ! until Ice Warriors & Cybermen popped up !

I used to be shit scared of the Daleks as a kid, till mum took me to the cinema to watch Peter Cushing play Dr Who on the BIG screen., & then a dalek got to close to the floor camera & you saw the guy inside peddling like mad ! I even remember his black shiny sensible shoes he had on !- Azriel

I kind of wish tha thad happened to me as Daleks scared me shitless as a kid- my parents thought it a good idea whilst on holiday in Blackpool to take me to the Doctor Who exhibtion- there was a Dalek on patrol going up and down the street outside- I screamed the place down- I refused to cross the road, I couldnt even be dragged there (and my Dad gave it a good go!)- I thought they had lost their minds- they were trying to take me to a DALEK! the most evil, single mindedly ruthless killling machine in existence.
Still dont like Daleks to this day.

'Wasnt scared of Daleks anymore ! until Ice Warriors & Cybermen popped up !'- Azriel

Then the second half of season 7 should be right up your street.
Best get the ready.


And please do join in the Who debates- they are wonderfully fiesty affairs.

I cant imagine anything more frightning than seeing a real "life" Dalek parading up & down the street !! And as for the settee? I think I pee-d my pants (unbeknown to my mum!) several times behind there ! She would only have found out if she moved the furniture ! I do like a bit of "fiest" so I may just add my thruppence worth now & again, thankyou.

Sure I can conjure a fiesty topic soon!

Hey Lorient how goes the viewing of Who? Still finding the time?

i find the dealers cute

I've been pondering what it is about the character of Rose that just annoys me so much and makes her one of my least favourite Who companions of all time.
And I think I have it, at least one aspect of it- and oddly enough it is something often Amy is accused off and isnt, but Rose is rarily accused of but its.

Rose is a total bitch.

There I have said it.
And she is a bitch to everyone except the Doctor right from the first episode and not only doesn't get any better as the series progress- she gets worse!

Lets start with the first episode Rose- as its a good example and it sets the template for the character.

In it Rose has a decent enough life- she has a boyfriend, Mickey, who clearly adores the ground she walks on and whom she has a good, fun time with- we see this in a montage scene of them meeting up in their lunch breaks from work and joking, clowning and laughing together as a happy in love couple. And we see later in the episode Fathers Day that infant Mickey was present at the wedding of Rose's parents- so presumably Mickey's family have been friends of the family a long time and Rose has known Mickey all her life.
She also has a routine but decent enough job working in a large London department store.
She lives in a perfectly decent flat with her mother whom she seems to have a good releationship with.
Yet by the end of the episode she dumps Mickey like he is mouldy cheese and hangs up on her mum who is traumatised- then she sods off with the Doctor leaving Mickey to take the rap for her mysterious disappearence. What a bitch!

Even Rose's opening monolgue- what's her main point? That life was dull and routine and like everyone elses until the Doctor came along- but she has no ambitions of her own- she has no aims or plans before the Doctor comes along. She has no drive, no goals, not even personal ones. The Doctor makes her life exciting and her feel more important and special- thats it.
Also note her attitude to Clive- the man with the website on the Doctor- Rose, having been attacked already by shop store dummies coming to life, a disembodied plastic hand, met a mysterious man and narrowly escaped an exploding buidling dismisses Clive to Mickey with the words "ok he's a nutter. Completely off his head."
This is indicitive of her attitude in general- the complete opposite of most companions the Doctor chooses who are open minded not closed.

At the start the Rose/Mickey releationship is actually similar to the Amy/Rory releationship- they have known each other all their lifes, and in both case the male partner feels they probably love their women more than the women love them (Rory is wrong about that, Mickey isnt though)- the difference is Amy comes to realise that Rory is who she actually loves and loving the Doctor is not only a thankless task but an unreal one- Rose never learns this and she throws everyone else out the window and under a bus to try to get what she wants.
Amy never chooses the Doctor over Rory, even although being around the Doctor does make her question just what she wants from her life and if marriage to Rory is a part of it, and it takes her two series to work the answer to that out-Rose chooses the Doctor over Mickey before the first episode ends. And what a bitchy way she does it- she kisses Mickey's cheek and says "thanks" to which confused, he replies, "thanks for what?" and she says, completely bitchly, "exactly," laughs in his face and runs off with her new would be boyfriend the Doctor.
This is the same Rose who earlier was seen in loving montage mood with Mickey not only dumping him on a whim but insulting him whilst doing so. Really, what a bitch. What did poor Mickey do to deserve that?

On an aside about Mickey he and Rory start and end similarly- both are wimpy at the begining (although Mickey seems to be genuinely cowardly, whereas Rory is more bumbling) and by the end of their time both have morphed into more active, heroic characters.
But I never bought it with Mickey- there is no real development from one state to the other and it always smacks to me of the writers trying to make up for how badly the character is treated by Rose in the early episodes. Whereas Rory's development follows a believable arc for me- he is not infatuated, afraid or amazed by the Doctor- unlike Amy's idiolised version of the Doctor, Rory can see him for what he truelly his- and how dangerous that makes him to those around him. Rory is not on the TARDIS for the Doctor- he is solely there to be close to Amy.
Mickey ending up shooting Sontarns with big guns to save the planet just seems like something shoehorned in with little to no development or reasoning, whereas Rory's development into the 'Last Cetnurion' is much more evolved and so more believable and understandable.

Now back to Rose. What about how she treats her own mother in this first episode?- at the episodes end after her mother has narrowly escaped death and is standing in a street that looks like a war zone she phones Rose- who promptly hangs up on her and then leaves without any explanation, leaving her mother to think she has gone missing, or worse and leaving Mickey to be the chief suspect in her disappearence- we later learn he was arrested, investigated and victimised by the locals for it. His life has been made a total nightmare by Rose's actions. And even when she finds this out she barely seems to care and treats him no better- being far more concerned about the Doctor still.

Amy projetcs a hard exterior to protect herself- its not really who she is, which is what Rory sees and loves in her- Rose really is just unpleasant to people and unbelievably selfish and uncaring. Rose really is hard and unpleasant all the way through. There is nothing underneath- that's her. A bitch. And that's one of the main reasons I dont like Rose and think Amy is a miles better, miles more rounded and fuller character with far more depth to her.
With Rose you get what you see- and I never liked the person I was seeing.

clip of the first episode in series 7B- The Bells of St John's- from the Jonothan Ross show-



And a nice pic of Matt and Jenna at the press screning of the episode.



And here's the interview from the Jonothan Ross show-



And some tweets from those who attended the screening- no spoilers

'Doctor Who: The Bells Of St John is so, so good. Dripping with fun, brilliance, good storytelling and laughs. Loved it.'

'Just finished watching new #doctorwho episode to be shown March 30, plus cast interviews. All brilliant, amazing ep!'

'Cant say too much about Doctor Who opening episode (yet). But will say it's very fast-paced like an action film.'

'New Doctor Who episode is stupendous fun.'

'One of the best Doctor Who series opening eps I have ever seen.'

And lastly a tweet from Matt on the 50th anniversary special-

"You will not be disappointed - I read it and I clapped at the end. It's epic and vast."

bollox never heard so much bollox.
if ever there was a brainless bitch its Amy. she treats her husband like shit and sucks up to the Doctor like a tart in heat.

Your response Mrs Figgs is emotive and completely lacking in any details or supporting evidence.

You say its bollox- are you then contending how Rose treats Mickey or her mother in the first episode?


As to Amy being brainless- there are countless times she either works out what is going on far more than Rose does in fact.
Amy loves Rory- that is clear and undeniable-its a large part of her story is her coming to realise just how much she does love him and what she is willing to sacrifice to be with him- her entire life with the Doctor.

Rose is the opposite- she casts everyone else aside to be with the Doctor.

And the only time she is 'tarty' with the Doctor is following the Angels two parter and her near death experience- and the Doctor reacts with shock and disbelief ( a much more 'Doctor' reaction than Tennants Doctor gives to Roses advances) and immediately sets about getting Rory into the TARDIS.

oh fuck off

I know I said Who discussions could be fiesty but I dont think just telling me to fuck off is very fair nor I'm afraid am I likely to- never have been a good fucker offerer.

But first you tell me my points are bollox without bothering to say why, addressing any of the points I had raised or offering alternatives.

You then make statements about Amy which do not seem to me to be supported by the episodes themselves (and just seem like a string of insults only- brainless bitch, tart in heat) and then you tell me to fuck off.

Petty I will apologize for telling you to fuck off, that was wrong of me, but I wont be reading this thread again as it looks like you make posts with no other reason other than to get a rise out of someone, otherwise why make such a futile post. I have no other comment to make.

I made the post because whilst I was stuck off line I watched quite a lot of older episodes including Rose and I wanted to put my thoughts on it down- I also said this when I came back on line that I had been thinking about these things so that post was not cooked up to be fiesty or something- it had nothing to do with deliberately getting a rise it was simply me setting out my thoughts based on recent rewatchings of that era of Who.

Whilst I have expressed a dislike for Rose in the past I have never actually set out with examples from an episode why- so this seemed perfectly appropriate to me to do so.

I know you dont like Amy but I can make exactly the same points and comparisons with Donna, who I also think is a far better written and rounded character than Rose ever was.

"I am getting married tomorrow, but you saved my life, so let's have sex!" = Tart.

she's engaged, committed, whereas Rose is arguably in a sort of open relationship. Amy acts like Rory is whiny if he's concerned about her, he learns----via the Doctor, not even by Amy herself--that Amy tried to cheat on him, right in front of him she sort of blows him off by saying it's not weird for him to pretend to be her brother, but it's weird for the Doctor to do so, remarks disbelievingly "We're still together in 10 years?"
I can't imagine how badly all of those things would hurt your feelings if you were Rory! He lets her do it though, my only complaint with him. I would have been a bit "Wow, why am I marrying you?" and leave. = Bitch.

this reminds me of a how I met your mother episode

"I am getting married tomorrow, but you saved my life, so let's have sex!" = Tart.- Mrs Figg

I think the character of each person and the context of the circumstances are important.
In Rose we are given nothing to explain the way she treats Mickey- before the Doctor arrives she seems perfectly happy with him- then when the Doctor turns up, and particulary the final scene she is outright malicously cruel to Mickey- essentaily taunting him as being useless in front of her new 'boyfriend'.
She gives no thought at at all to Mickey, the consequences he might face, or even what worries her mother will go through if she just literally disappears off the face of the Earth.

Yes Amy does try to sleep with the Doctor, she does run away on the eve of her wedding- but she tries to forget about it, she tries not to think about it, but unlike Rose she fails at that. Becuase unlike Rose she is not really hard hearted or self important.

Take the last scene of the Beast Below where Amy asks the Doctor if he has ever run away from something because he was scared, or unsure, or even just because he could.
Amy has not just forgotten Rory and her wedding, its very much on her mind despite her trying to run from it.
Also in that episode she tells the girl she meets she is supposed to be getting married in the morning, and the first thing she asks the computer when she realises it has her records on file is if she got married. Amy is trying to run away from her problems and failing to.
I cant even remember when the next time Rose even mentions Mickey after the first episode. Not until he comes back into it again I dont think. Its not an issue for her.

And Amy is, early on especially, either using sex to deal (or not deal) with the fact her life makes no sense thanks to the cracks in time eating her family and who knows who else, or she just has a more open attitude to it- its no coincidence the first tme we see adult Amy its in her 'work clothes' as a stripagram.

Amy has issues- caused by the Doctor meddling in her life. And when she tries to seduce the Doctor she has just, for the first time since going off with Doctor, come very close to dying. Emotioanlly she is a bit all over the place.
In other words there are charctaer and narrative reasons which have a bearing on her actions. I dont find that with Rose who is just bitchy because she is bitchy.

And if we are comparing morality what about Rose when she meets Captain Jack? She' all over him like a rash.
And I dont see any evidence she is in an open releationshiop with Mickey- certainly not from his point of view anyway- if she is in an open releationship I dont think she bothered telling Mickey- which granted would be typical of her.

The only character and narrative reasons we have for why Rose acts as she does towards others is she is not a very nice person.

Another good example of this is the episode School Reunion- the episode where Sarah Jane reappears- Rose is jealous, spiteful and downright openly bitchy to her from the off- take this exchange for example whnen Rose first meets Sarah-

Rose: Who's she?
The Doctor: Rose, Sarah Jane. Sarah Jane, Rose.
Sarah Jane: Hi. Nice to meet you. You can tell you're getting older. Your assistants are getting younger.
Rose incensed: I'm not his assistant.

or this-

Rose: The thing is, when you two met, they'd only just got rid of rationing. No wonder all that space stuff was a bit too much for ya.
Sarah Jane: I had no problem with space stuff. I saw things you wouldn't believe!

Its very bitchy for no good reason- and even when they do finally get on it's telling they only bond over laughing at someone elses expense- the Doctors.

I find nothing likeable about these personality traits- she is jealous, bitchy, snooty and self-centred.

Yes Amy is more sexually ambigous, yes she can act dismissive and uncaring- but thats the difference, with Amy its an act, a defence she has built up over her life to deal with all the weirdness and impossibilites, with Rose it seems she really is like that.
And Amy's act is slowly broken down over the series she and Rory are in, and she is revealed to herself- their releationship develops and grows and becomes much deeper until Amy is finally in a position where she understands her life and the choices she has, and is willing and happy for that choice to be Rory.
One of the traits of Amy I really enjoy, especially in a female character, is no matter what she does, even trying to seduce the Doctor, or working as a stripogram, she does it always on her own terms.
And in the end, that includes choosing her own ending.

is this show like happy endings

Not always, no. (Amy!)

u misunderstand