Doctor Who [4]

Yeah Who has never looked better- here's some more stills grabbed from series 6 episodes.

the thing is that the whole point of Who is that the special effects were always on a shoe string from the beginning. thats the charm of it. You miss the whole point of it if you need to see glossy effects. Its not Transformers, its Who, and Who is about that particularly British homespun tea time lets make everything out of plywood in some blokes shed thing. Its part of BBC tradition like Blue Peter which taught kids to make things out of cardboard and spit, its part of the post war arts and crafts, allotment, make do and mend mentality. I know its hard for younger viewers, they are given highly glossy and Hollywood style special effects from birth and anything less looks dull. The first episodes of NuWho are not as glossy as today, but I think Who has lost a great deal of its charm and even Tolkienness in the process. You cant put a sheen of sophistication over everything and try to sell style over content without losing the essential Whoness of Who.

The whole point of Who is not that the effects should be bad- they werent trying for bad when they made them you know. They were trying their damndest on a shoestring budget to make them good- often the badness though was to the detriment of the story.

The Ark in Space (4th Doctor) I linked to above is a great example of that- briliant story, great script, excellent characters but its hard to take seriously when the bad guy is a bloke wrapped in bubblewrap spray painted green.
It doesnt add charm to the episode it just looks bad and ruins the suspension of disbelief- and it always did- I remember thinking it looked bad when I was a kid.

For so long as effects dont come to dominate and the characters and story remain the heart of it, and whatever you might say about Moffat's Who you cant accuse it of lacking story and characters ideas, the effects should be as good and as wonderous as they can make them.

And I think the examples above demonstrate that the quirky, eccentirc streak of Britishness in Who that makes it what it is, is just as evident in the effects work.
If it adds to the story and the looks beautiful, as it often has of late, I dont see it changes Who at all. Its just finally that the effects can match the writers imaginations better.


"The first episodes of NuWho are not as glossy as today, but I think Who has lost a great deal of its charm and even Tolkienness in the process."- Mrs Figg

I couldnt disagree with this more Mrs Figg.
I dont think there is any real difference betwen the amount of effects in an episode in the 9th Doctor and now save the quality has got a lot better and they are more imaginative.
There were just as many effects when it restarted and they were as good and as glossy as they could afford to make them at the time.
I dont remember anyone complaing Eccys Tardis was no longer held on a string.

"The whole point of Who is not that the effects should be bad- they werent trying for bad when they made them you know". Petty

thats a pretty disingenuous statement, and twists my meaning. I know they didnt make the effects bad on purpose I also think that Moffat relies on whiz bang glossy effects to disguise the empty spectacle of the Who storylines. Its stylish and thats what attracts young viewers, and he knows it. Its self consciously using video game aesthetics to attract new viewers. Studio based stuff, with a lot of dialogue is 'boring' for video gamers, they see the family dramas of RTD as 'boring' kitchen sink drama rather than the rich human emotional connections they are. Give me content over style any day.

I dont think I need to defend Moffat as viewing figures for any show he writes speak for themselves.

"Moffat relies on whiz bang glossy effects to disguise the empty spectacle of the Who storylines"- Mrs Figg


I have been watching Who all my life and I cannot see how it is now style over substance any more or less than it ever was.
There are no more effects in the average episode now than there were when Nuwho began- so I have no idea what you base the idea on that is now all gloss and style. The physical evidence does not support it- effects are better now but there are not significiantly more of them.

Episode like the Doctors Wife, the Girl Who Waited, Closing Time ect have effects in them but by no stretch of the imagination could they be said to be anything other than character and story based episodes for example.

"Studio based stuff, with a lot of dialogue is 'boring' for video gamers"- Mrs Figg

I sometimes wonder if you have really watched any Moffat Who Mrs Figg. Moffat writing is packed with dialogue, its what he is most famous for- including monolgues like Rivers speech at Demons Run, or to Rory about the day she fears most, or the Doctors monologue by young Amy's bedside- I am struggling to think of many RTD episodes that have such comparable long pieces of dialogue (and those I can think of, Moffat wrote- Girl in the Fireplace, Blink, The Empty Child) perhaps you could enlighten me.

"they see the family dramas of RTD as 'boring' kitchen sink drama"

Not liking kitchen sink drama in Who is not anything to do with quality, thats just taste- I would argue there is more depth, scope and content in Who now than when it was just kitchen sink drama, probably than ever before in fact- and it managed for 40 years before RTD came along without being kitchen sink drama.

You are welcome to your opinion- its when you make what seem wild unbased statements when there is no evidence to support it at all that it needs correction.
You are free to prefer RTD Who to Moffat but no, just because you dont like Moffat, I wont just let you make unfounded claims that might put others off watching without repsonding.

One of the things that's changed over the years is the screens people are watching on. I have very fond memories of our family sitting around a 19 inch TV screen with a snowy, grainy Black-and-White picture that occasionally rolled vertically as the set warmed up or cooled off.

The sound wasn't always great either, so during commercials we spent our time sharing our best guesses as to what was actually happening. Now that's family entertainment!
Shows like Star Trek had a lot of broad acting and only a few simple images on the screen at a time so they didn't leave their audiences behind.

I still enjoy watching vintage TV. Some of it was truly brilliant considering what they had to work with. But I've found that it's better for me to watch it on a small computer monitor, the smaller the better. It was never made to be blown up to a giant movie screen and a lot of flaws show that shouldn't.

On the other hand modern SciFi TV is designed to be watched on a fathom-wide screen. If you try to watch it on your smart phone it can be confusing.

Very true David.
Most of what we consider the 'style' of that period of tv was down mainly to technical limitations.
Things had to be shot a certain way because cameas were cumbersome and awkward. Studio lighting tended to be universal rather than setup specifically for the thing being filmed.
On location shooting was rare due to the difficulties with the heavy equipment.

Usually choices were made not for artistic reasons but for practical ones.
The original Who Producer Verity Lambert hates it when people say about the eefects that they were part of the charm- as she knew the people who made them and how hard they were trying to make them believable and as good as they possibly could.
That moden tech makes things possible now that they could only dream of when the show began I see as a positive not a negative. It enhances the story telling, it doesn't replace it.

Some classic Who effects work- from the Cave of Skulls and The Dalek Invasion of Earth (1st Doctor)

well thats the crux of the matter, you dont want me to express my 'wild' opinions in case I put people off, thats the reality isnt it? But just a hint, you are not going to encourage them with a fanatical defence mode. chill out a bit and let others express their opinions.

There are OTHERS????

Mrs Figg I am not making a fantacal defence- I am making a defence of fanatical claims by you that there is no dialogue or characters left and its all special effects and style with no substance- which simply could not be further from the observable account- regardless of anyones personal taste.

And yes I think it is beholven on me as the person who set up this thread to promote Who to correct statements that are simple untruths.
Opinin is one thing, there is plenty Who that is not my thing- almost the entire Pertwee era for a start - but just making accusations up which have no foundation in the evidence just to have a go is quite another.

no Dave, just little me

gosh sorry did I invade your thread? with my fanatical wildness? cor blimey!

No just your accusations with absolutely no backing.

buisness as usual then?

Wouldnt be Who if the fans actually agreed on episodes- we know the show is brilliant- just all the details we disagree on.

Who fans are almost as barking as Sherlock fans, no hang on, Sherlock fans are waaaaaaaaaay weirder.

Oh yeah Sherlock fans are weird. Who fans are just fiesty and it takes more than a half empty studio with a pot of paint in it to get a reaction out of us.

too right!

This is vying now for my favourtie Murray Gold music piece- so emotional and sad and yet magical all at once. Bit like the Doctor himself.
I am looking foward to the proper full version of it on the series 7 soundrack (this is from the episode with the voice tracks dropped out, more or less)

Bit different from the usual- interesting choice of music

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Bit different from the usual- interesting choice of music

Oh that's clever! Loved it!!

I liked it to, Amarie !

LOVE THE SONG!

ok. I've made two recordings for petty. It sucks. It's made in like five minutes.. It's not practised. I just.. played it. So it's false in places, out of rythm and... terrible sound.. on captivity and freedom I had this thing on the violin to reduse the sound (cus I have a small room and to spare my ears, sounds like I'm playing a toy violin) so... yeah.. it's here:
http://dorkynorc.tumblr.com/
password: forumshire




something to compare later shit with. it's sof alse in places it hurts and I can't believe I'm putting this up...... it sucks. also the wooden thing on the violin is too flat so I keep playing other strings as well... god.. why did I do this.