Re: Countdown to Release [2] SPOILER THREAD

by MeikoElektra Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:54 am

Now I remember why I quit German in school! The grammar is tortuous... Give me conjugation of French irregular verbs any day!

I was going to watch The Hobbit (Part 1 of 27) on the first day but I'm going to be living with my partner by then and I'm afraid he'll laugh at me (which isn't at all fair because I don't laugh at him for watching Friends - or having more bottles of scent than I do). But to avoid that I think I might have to wait til he goes away for a few days in January.

The Misty Mountains theme and "intelligent" trolls have made me a tad more optimistic than I was, which is dangerous.

by Pettytyrant101 Fri Nov 16, 2012 6:23 am

Have a read of the Boyens interview Meiko on the other thread- soon get your crabbit and pessimism levels going again!

by azriel Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:14 am

Cripes ! Petty, If Meiko read all the stuff that Boyens & the rest of Witches of Eastwick have stated,the poor chap will miss the film altogether ! Theres bucket loads ! Enough crap to fill a zoo.

by Mrs Figg Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:02 am

wheres Yooper?

by Eldorion Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:37 pm

Interview with Philippa Boyens

http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/film/7958977/Philippa-Boyens-film-powerplayer

The wording is a bit unclear but it seems to suggest that they did not change the placement of Smaug's death. Possibly encouraging news after the previous hypothesis about Smaug.

by Norc Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:46 pm

I was going to write OMG YOU SHIT KID, THAT'S A HELL OF A SPOILER but then I remembered... I've read the book...

by Eldorion Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:48 pm

el oh el?

by Norc Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:51 pm

ell øuh ell, yes..

by Pettytyrant101 Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:28 pm

I posted that interview a while back Eldo- but from a different source (and I think its on the picture spoiler thread) seems like a reprint of that story- so sadly her other comments about Smaugs death being to early and not tied in to the Necro ect seem to come later than this one. Just to further muddy the waters.

On another issue altogether-

'Animal wranglers involved in the making of The Hobbit movie trilogy say the production company is responsible for the deaths of up to 27 animals, largely because they were kept at a farm filled with bluffs, sinkholes and other “death traps.”
The American Humane Association, which is overseeing animal welfare on the films, says no animals were harmed during the actual filming. But it also says the wranglers’ complaints highlight shortcomings in its oversight system, which monitors film sets but not the facilities where the animals are housed and trained.
A spokesman for trilogy director Peter Jackson on Monday acknowledged that horses, goats, chickens and one sheep died at the farm near Wellington where about 150 animals were housed for the movies, but he said some of the deaths were from natural causes.
The spokesman, Matt Dravitzki, agreed that the deaths of two horses were avoidable, and said the production company moved quickly to improve conditions after they died.
The Associated Press spoke to four wranglers who said the farm near Wellington was unsuitable for horses because it was peppered with bluffs, sinkholes and broken-down fencing. They said they repeatedly raised concerns about the farm with their superiors and the production company, owned by Warner Bros., but it continued to be used. They say they want their story aired publicly now to prevent similar deaths in the future.
One wrangler said that over time he buried three horses, as well as about six goats, six sheep and a dozen chickens. The wranglers say two more horses suffered severe injuries but survived.
The first horse to die, he said, was a miniature named Rainbow.
“When I arrived at work in the morning, the pony was still alive but his back was broken. He’d come off a bank at speed and crash-landed,” Langridge said. “He was in a bad state.”
Rainbow, who had been slated for use as a hobbit horse, was euthanized. A week later, a horse named Doofus got caught in some fencing and sliced open its leg. That horse survived, but Langridge said he’d had enough.
Wrangler Johnny Smythe said that soon after Langridge left, a horse named Claire was found dead, its head submerged in a stream after it fell over a bluff. After that, he said, the horses were put in stables, where a third horse died.
Smythe said no autopsy was performed on the horse, which was named Zeppelin. Veterinary records say the horse died of natural causes, from a burst blood vessel, but Smythe said the horse was bloated and its intestines were full of a yellow liquid; he believes it died of digestive problems caused by new feed.
Smythe said the six goats and six sheep he buried died after falling into sinkholes, contracting worms or getting new feed after the grass was eaten. He said the chickens were often left out of their enclosure and that a dozen were mauled to death by dogs on two separate occasions.
Smythe said he was fired in October 2011 after arguing with his boss about the treatment of the animals.
A fourth wrangler, who didn’t want to be named because she feared it could jeopardize her future employment in the industry, said another horse, Molly, got caught in a fence and ripped her leg open, suffering permanent injuries."

Ah well so long as PJ and co make their bucks whats a few cases of animal cruelty and death.

by Norc Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:49 pm

no! you're kidding! that is aweful! but I have to point out, PJ has probably nothing to do with it. Yes, his name is on top of the movie poster adn all, but there are different companies doing different things, and some, unfortunately, are not so serious. Oh, god, this is horrible. That's what happens when productions get so large.

by Pettytyrant101 Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:58 pm

How hard can it be for PJ's company- he is Lord and Saviour of NZ afterall- to hire someone to make sure the animals used in HIS film are properly treated?
PJ cant be expected to handle every detail himself but thats why you delegate, after the first death and complaints from the wranlers he should have stepped up to the plate and ensured someone was responsible for the animals and that they were moved to better conditions and not allowed the situation to just continue. If complaints had been made about the conditions the actors were having to live in you can be damned sure he would have done something then.
It seems there will now be an organised protest held at the NZ premiere by animal welfare groups.

by David H Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:08 pm

The way it's usually done is that the production company rents as many things as possible. and contracts for services that are not rentable. There may be hundreds of these subcontractors. In a production this big it could be thousands. If you rent a horse from the owner for a certain number of days and you treat it well during those days, you wouldn't necessarily know what the owner or the transporter or all of the stables and kennels are doing to get it there for you. I have a horse that would probably have been fine in that pasture with bluffs and barbwire, but would go dangerously crazy if you put him in a box stall at a stable. On the other hand a stable horse shouldn't be expected to know how to take care of itself, just like you wouldn't turn an indoor cat or dog outside if it didn't know how to climb trees or interact with other animals.

by Norc Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:15 pm

also, it may have been that complaints never reached PJ, but were hushed down.

by Pettytyrant101 Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:20 pm

From what I can tell from reading a few press stories covering it all the animals used in the film were housed at this one farm- which is in Wellington- where PJ and his company are also based. So not like it was at the other end of NZ or something out of sight and out of mind.
I get how they might not have been aware at the start there was any problem but once there had been deaths and complaints being made something should have been done there and then.
And I might be wrong but this is ringing bells of similar accusations made about the treatment of horses during the filming of LotR's.
If so you might think they would have taken more care this time out with the treatment of animals.

Norc that is a possibility.

by Norc Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:26 pm

anyways, this is very embarrassing for the production.

by RA Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:28 pm

That's awful. Better care should've been taken after the first death.

by Eldorion Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:09 pm

This is tragic enough without trying to tie it to any sort of vendetta against PJ.

I wonder if, given the New Zealand government's unhealthy obsession with the LOTR movies, they will obstruct any attempt to get to the bottom of this or hold anyone accountable. Seeing as they were willing to rewrite legislation in order to keep the films in NZ (labor laws in that case) I'm not holding my breath for the government to look too closely.

Either way, very sad news and I hope that they are able to learn from this to prevent future deaths of this sort.

by Pettytyrant101 Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:15 pm

Not a vendetta Eldo- I just believe if you are in charge of something responsibility ultimately rests with you- how many leaders, or company bosses ect have had to go because ultimatley they are responsible, even when they were unaware of what was going on in the ranks beneath them?
When I was a senior in a care home I was responible (legally as well) for anything which happened on my shifts- whether I did it or knew about it or not.

by Eldorion Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:19 pm

No offense Petty but I think we all know you have a vendetta against PJ that goes back way longer than this thread. Razz

That said, I understand where you're coming from, but not knowing the details of the complicated web of companies involved in the production I'm willing to give PJ the benefit of a doubt. Whoever was in charge of the stables or the company that owned the horses? Not so much.

by Norc Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:14 pm

the ones responsible for animal care are the ones responsible. Both for not reporting, not following up reports and yeah.. I director isn't supposed to keep track of it all, my guess is he didn't know about this (the man has three pugs, he probably loves animals, pugs are god awful creatures). Though, this comes down to warner brothers.. i think. they are one the top, right? they're supposed to have the full picture?

by azriel Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:59 pm

All the more reason for PJ to do something about the animals HE uses for HIS films ! Hes got dogs,so he loves animals yeah ? someone has to take the blame & as hes head of his empire,the buck stops with HIM. even if you arent keen on animals,you should still deal with it. the only thing I can think of is, bad publicity for not only PJ,but for NZ on the whole ! Thanks to him,LOTRs brought much needed tourism,EVERYONE wanted to see "lotrs" so they booked their flights & charged to NZ in droves, Cant loose a lucritive business like that now can you ?! especially as The Hobbit is almost out, more tourists coming up !

by Mrs Figg Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:04 pm

Petty what now you are blaming PJ for these animals dying?. Thats absolutely ridiculous. Its just not on. You dont know the full facts. You have crossed the line on this one, stepped over into weird vendetta land.

by Pettytyrant101 Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:27 am

According to the reports Mrs Figg the Production Company is responsible for the oversight of the animals-

'A spokesman for trilogy director Peter Jackson....Matt Dravitzki, agreed that the deaths of two horses were avoidable, and said the production company moved quickly to improve conditions after they died."

And who is the on the ground Production Company in NZ for TH? Why Wingnut Films- PJ's company of which the head is, PJ and Fran Walsh.

So yeah, as head of the company in charge of overseeing these things PJ is ultimelty responsible, even if no one told him.

by Eldorion Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:34 am

According to the the Associated Press report (link) the production company is "owned by Warner Bros". I'm not sure what exactly they're referring to but if this is accurate then it's not Wingnut Films, which is as you point out owned by PJ.

It's possible the AP got their facts mixed up, but either way, it's a mess and I don't think any of us know for sure what happened.

by Pettytyrant101 Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:44 am

"Animal wranglers involved in the making of ‘‘The Hobbit’’ movie trilogy say the production company is responsible"

A quick trip to IMDB to see who is the production company gives you-

New Line Cinema, Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer (MGM), WingNut Films

Only one of which is based in NZ, and in fact in Wellington where the farm was.
That Wingnut Films are the production company responsible for the oversight of such things seems fairly clear to me from the fact the person who is the spokeman for the production company in the article defending what happened is Matt Dravitzki, an employee of Wingnut Films who has worked closely with PJ on all LotR's fiilms, the lovely bones and King Kong, District 9 and Tintin.