what sort of jokes can I get away with?

Carly Castle wrote:~all pictures of jesus show him as super buff~

American Jesus

Yeah but I bet you just googled fat jesus
if you google just jesus I bet all the pics are super hot

Fuck this is the first image on google:

I think the only thing everybody agrees on is the beard and no glasses.

no, I'm wrong.

Yeah, but you just typed in histper jesus didn't you? He's mostly buff

you're looking for this one, right?

Early texts close to Jesus life time describe him as a short, slightly hunchbacked* dark haired Jew- they never draw him like that in the stained glass windows!

*God seems to like picking the impaired as His messengers- Moses had a speech impediment and had to ask God if it was OK for his brother Aaron to do all the talky bits!

Which early texts, Petty? I googled "Josephus description of Jesus" and found this page with many sources but several I suspect were from later forgeries.

http://www.thenazareneway.com/likeness_of_our_saviour.htm

{{{{hehe! Norked and couter-Norked! }}}

In the eighth century, the archbishop of Crete, one Andreas Hierosolymitanus, quoted a description of Jesus Christ which could be found in a version of Josephus extant at that time.
Jesus, he said, was a dark-skinned hunchback with a big nose, thinning hair, a patchy beard, and eyebrows that joined in the center.

Other early Christian writers -- Tertullian, for example -- make reference to Jesus being disfigured and un-handsome.

The "Pilate" letter appears to be an anti-Semitic forgery, or fantasy, allegedly found "in the Achoko Volume in the Congressional Library in Washington, D.C."

The "unibrow" detail is reflected in some early Christian art.
he may have been clean-shaven, since other young Jewish fellows of that day had taken up Roman style.

The earliest known painting of Jesus (approx 225AD) depicts him as beardless, with short hair and dark skin.

However to go into a bit more detail-

"But moreover the Jew Josephus in like manner narrates that the Lord was seen having "meeting eyebrows, goodly eyes, long-faced, crooked, well-grown."- Josephus (now lost)

The word "crooked" used here is a translation of the Greek epikuphos, usually meaning "crooked, bent over."

Just as there were many who were appalled at him[a]—his appearance was so disfigured beyond that of any human being and his form marred beyond human likeness— Isaiah 52:14

Hope that helps!

Pettytyrant101 wrote:
Just as there were many who were appalled at him[a]—his appearance was so disfigured beyond that of any human being and his form marred beyond human likeness— Isaiah 52:14

Hope that helps!

Hmmm.... Not to question prophesy or anything, but it seems to me that a description from 800 years before Jesus was born would be even less reliable than one from 800 years after he was born. Don't you think?

That all depends on when you think such things were 'actually' written and whether or not later events were interjected Big Brother style to make prophecies seem more accurate.

There is a heated debate over how much one can rely on Josepheus (and any other early source) and whether he just copied Luke, or even if the early church just made it up and aid Jospehus said it- there is some good evidence that either Jospehus copied Luke or some of Josephus words were 'added' to- for example Jospehus says Jesus was the Messiah- yet that ony appears from about 300AD onwards- but we have quotes from others before this which not only do not include this but state that Jospehus thought Jesus was not the Messiah.

'The Arabic version of Agapius, also lacks this phrase.(the messiah bit)

"On the third day he appeared to them restored to life, for the prophets of God had prophesied these and countless other marvels about him."- Jospehus

There are parallels to all the concepts in this sentence at the parallel location in Luke. Moreover, there are peculiarities of vocabulary that appear both in this Josephus passage and in Luke at this point. Most noteworthy, the odd use of the accusative form of the third day (literally, "having/spending a third day") that is found in both texts are the only two instances of this usage in Christian literature.

Jospehus also said Jesus taught the 'truth'
The word "truth" does not appear in parallel in Luke, nor in the Arabic translation of Agapius.


Just to give an idea of some of the problems with early sources.

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Just as there were many who were appalled at him[a]—his appearance was so disfigured beyond that of any human being and his form marred beyond human likeness— Isaiah 52:14

Hope that helps!

Maybe that old lady in Spain was right after all!

Pettytyrant101 wrote:That all depends on when you think such things were 'actually' written and whether or not later events were interjected Big Brother style to make prophecies seem more accurate.

Yeah, early sources are interesting because of how freely people altered texts. Josephus is questionable in his own right, and quotes from editions of Josephus that no longer exist are interesting, but it would be hard to say if they were more or less reliable I think.

But Isaiah was kept in the Jewish tradition as well, wasn't it? So that should give a fair check on the text, at least from "helpful additions" by the early church.

Just checked. There is a copy of Isaiah in the Dead Sea Scrolls dating from about 100 BCE.

Does it contain that passage David?

I don't know. That's an interesting question.

If it does, it would be possible that later descriptions of ugliness were attempts to make reality match prophesy, and might not be an accurate description.

If it doesn't and it was added later by early Christians to make the prophesy match the reality, then why wouldn't early Christians also have retained and accentuated the image in iconography?

Yes it does. Here's the corresponding translation from the Qumran scrolls:

1. (Chapter 52:13.) Behold, my servant shall deal prudently, he shall be exalted and lifted up, and be very high (14.) as those who were astonished
2. at him are many; because his visage was marred more than any man, and his form more than the sons of men:
3. (15.) So shall he startle many nations; the kings shall shut their mouths at him: for that which
4. was not told to them shall they see; and that which they had not heard shall they consider. (PP)
[*]

http://www.ao.net/~fmoeller/qa-tran.htm

Jesus came across an adulteress, crouching in a corner, with a crowd around her preparing to stone her to death. Jesus stopped them and said, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

Suddenly a woman at the back of the crowd fired off a stone at the adulteress. At which point Jesus looked over and said, "Mother! Sometimes you really tick me off!"

Nice!

Pettytyrant101 wrote:There is a heated debate over how much one can rely on Josepheus (and any other early source) and whether he just copied Luke, or even if the early church just made it up and aid Jospehus said it- there is some good evidence that either Jospehus copied Luke or some of Josephus words were 'added' to- for example Jospehus says Jesus was the Messiah- yet that ony appears from about 300AD onwards- but we have quotes from others before this which not only do not include this but state that Jospehus thought Jesus was not the Messiah.

Try it the other way around and there might be some good evidence; that is, there is good evidence that Luke was aware of Josephus. Much of Luke uses all sorts of texts and a fair dash of Pauline duplicity, to create his pseudo-histories or myth-histories or theological histories (including the Old Testament, of course). Call the Gospel of Luke and Acts whatever you like, they are far more untrustworthy than Josephus. Josephus was deeply involved in things (and at the heart of power) with access to aminisrative documents and other texts of the time. Josephus is not always trustworthy but most of the things he can't be trusted on are fairly obvious, where Luke is extremely untrustworthy --- and very probably dependant on Josephus in places.

Jesus looked like Robert Powell. everyone knows that.

I don't get some of these latest jokes.

Don't try to wake me in the morning
For I will be gone...
Deep in the cell of my heart,
I really want to go.
There is another world, there is a better world,
Well, there must be; there must be.