Petty's Purist LotR Edits

Pettytyrant101 wrote:I've thought of a way to check your picture settings Orwell- admittedly probably to late to help but still- go to the scene where Sam fights Shelob. When he has the palantir in his hand that is unfiltered original brightness levels, when its knocked out his hand the filter comes back on- that should be darker and more red. Using those two bits you should be able to get a balance where you can see whats going on.

Maybe I will, one day, and maybe I won't...

I've finished!

Immediate thoughts:

(1) There are some really great scenes in these movies.
(2) I love Arwen and hate (because of my jealousy) Aragorn.
(3) There are very few bits you cut out that I would quibble about. (I fear we see eye to eye on too many things, but let's face it, only One of us can wear the ring - though you can be my minion come our re-filming - and you can't be crabbit about that, surely!)
(4) As always, PJ did a lot right and even some things he got wrong weren't too far wrong, even some of his "addings" seemed, at least, true to the spirit of Tolkien, but too much was utter crap - and you did a stirling job to remove most of it.
(5) Sadly, much is disjointed because of (4).
(6) Your attempts to get things in proper sequence were Herculean.
(7) Loved the taking PJ out and putting Tolkien in reference.
( I love Arwen (though a couple of scenes, especially early, made me cringe - PJ you bastard!)
(9) We will have to remake the movies one day (taking into account bracketed caveats in (3) ).
(10) Would Liv Tyler divorce her husband and come to live with me if: (a) I can get her contact number, (b) someone can persuade my wife that it's for the best.
(11) I know I've said it before, but these movies could have been done properly, not just partly properly, if PJ had listened to Tolkien, and had he not tried to reinvent Tolkien's perfectly circular wheel.
(12) {{{{{ You are a very thoughtful and talented Scotshobbit, Petty, and I love you passionately, but I will never admit that in an unencrypted sentence - people might think I'm from Skattykatzenfjord if I did}}}}}}
(13) The Megadedit brought me much pain amid the pleasure, and I hate you for making me watch it - passionately.

Oh yes, the Two Towers parts are overall the best and most flowing.

Point 3 I am keen for an expansion of.

And as to point 13 as someone is fond of saying "here to help"

{{And I am too embarrassed by point 12 to respond properly and at the risk of this being a love-in I am not the only one who could be described in such a fashion around here }}}


edit add- No mention of the filter effect? Is that a good or bad thing?

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Point 3 I am keen for an expansion of.

And as to point 13 as someone is fond of saying "here to help"

{{And I am too embarrassed by point 12 to respond properly and at the risk of this being a love-in I am not the only one who could be described in such a fashion around here }}}


edit add- No mention of the filter effect? Is that a good or bad thing?

Now I have to remember what they were, do I? Does this never end?

Two come to mind.

(1) Elrond's recital of the Ring poem.
(2) I ddn't mind Gandalf telling Pippin to not say anything. It was kind of funny, and not really un-Tolkienish in my opinion. I do see why you removed it, but I don't think I'd have felt the need to be quite so zealous about it. It's a quibble, though, not a full blown disagreement. As I said, I can see why you did it.

Btw - how about being a bit helpful. Study (10) please and offer some suggestions. Not silly suggestions, mind, only practical ones!

As to "filter effect", I think you're on the money there. It was just some was a bit too dark for me. When Theoden arrives on the crest of the ridge, it was too dark for me - but it may also have been my computer.

{{{{ (12) Oh yooooouuu.... We're becoming a couple of suck-up Pansies, aren't we! Glad no one knows how big suck-ups we are. That would be truly embarrassing! }}}}}

Well point one- her contact number I reckon you could get deemed a stalker for persuing directly, needs to be done with great care. I would suggest setting up a fake buisness as an Australian casting agency then contact her agent with a juicy role and a huge fee and you are bound to get her number (not that I've thought about this, or um anything )
Point 2, persuading your wife- well, em, how can I put this- if she is 'friendly' also towards lady folks that would certainly make it a lot easier- if not I would say you tell her that you are sick and tired of seeing her work to the bone and run a home all at once, its not fair and she deserves so much better, and you've finally decided to hell with the cost you are going to get a house maid- and this is the good bit- you then under the guise of your film agency have Liv come over to shoot 'rehersals' at your house as the 'maid' (extra ideal 'cause she will have to wear a maids outfit- and not a frumpy real one, she thinks she's in a film so a film one ie sexy). Place a few cameras around the house and give her your, ahem, script to perform and there you go- thats at least a crate of buckie you owe me for that- takes a lot out of a hobbit that level of devious thinking even a Scots Tyrant hobbit.
Oh and seeing as you'll have the cameras around the place..........

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Well point one- her contact number I reckon you could get deemed a stalker for persuing directly, needs to be done with great care. I would suggest setting up a fake buisness as an Australian casting agency then contact her agent with a juicy role and a huge fee and you are bound to get her number (not that I've thought about this, or um anything )
Point 2, persuading your wife- well, em, how can I put this- if she is 'friendly' also towards lady folks that would certainly make it a lot easier- if not I would say you tell her that you are sick and tired of seeing her work to the bone and run a home all at once, its not fair and she deserves so much better, and you've finally decided to hell with the cost you are going to get a house maid- and this is the good bit- you then under the guise of your film agency have Liv come over to shoot 'rehersals' at your house as the 'maid' (extra ideal 'cause she will have to wear a maids outfit- and not a frumpy real one, she thinks she's in a film so a film one ie sexy). Place a few cameras around the house and give her your, ahem, script to perform and there you go- thats at least a crate of buckie you owe me for that- takes a lot out of a hobbit that level of devious thinking even a Scots Tyrant hobbit.
Oh and seeing as you'll have the cameras around the place..........

Wonderful advice! I'll do it! (I'll put down the lack of knickers and bras, and inclusion of suspender belts with the maid's outfit, to it being an Art House film, I think. The Missus can be sent off to watch "Chick Flicks" while we film certain scenes.... We must, of course, strive for realism, no matter what it takes)

Ah got to love Art House films. Good idea.

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Ah got to love Art House films. Good idea.

"I ddn't mind Gandalf telling Pippin to not say anything. It was kind of funny, and not really un-Tolkienish in my opinion."- Orwell

I didn't really remove it for being untolkienish- although its certainly not accurate either. It was more a tone thing, I felt the sequence worked better with a maintained air of seriousness.

Pettytyrant101 wrote:"I ddn't mind Gandalf telling Pippin to not say anything. It was kind of funny, and not really un-Tolkienish in my opinion."- Orwell

I didn't really remove it for being untolkienish- although its certainly not accurate either. It was more a tone thing, I felt the sequence worked better with a maintained air of seriousness.

It's a bit stilted now I think; and the humour offset the seriousness nicely, I thought.

I can see how you might feel that Orwell but there was something about Gandalf basically telling Pippin to just up because he was to stupid (which PJ's version is) grated with me. It felt wrong, something Gandlaf would never say or imply.

How are you getting on in your viewing Baingil?

Been rather busy lately and waiting for a nice quiet evening to look at more.

Pettytyrant101 wrote:I can see how you might feel that Orwell but there was something about Gandalf basically telling Pippin to just up because he was to stupid (which PJ's version is) grated with me. It felt wrong, something Gandlaf would never say or imply.

How are you getting on in your viewing Baingil?

Been talking to a mate about your edit and the things you did to Purify PJ's LotR, Petty. Talking about it reinforced my view that you did a Herculean job with it. A crying shame you haven't been approached about a remake! A scandal they haven't, in fact.

Give your friend a copy to watch Orwell- spread the Tolkienesque version throughout OZ! Maybe it will reach NZ and PJ will see it.

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Give your friend a copy to watch Orwell- spread the Tolkienesque version throughout OZ! Maybe it will reach NZ and PJ will see it.

Does that mean I have to burn a copy somehow! Look, I know my IT skills are of a high order (for a newt) but... well, my IT skills are those of a newt.

Number of ways you could do it- you could burn it off to a disk- either as a dvd or just as a data disk. Or you could put it on a memory stick or flash card and give him that.

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Number of ways you could do it- you could burn it off to a disk- either as a dvd or just as a data disk. Or you could put it on a memory stick or flash card and give him that.

More thinkin' to be done then ( ). It's not easy for Ozhobbits, you know, thinkin' - no matter how simple the thinkin' required might be ( ) It's the "effort" needed that's the problem ( )

This is nothing but a shameless piece of thread bumping seeing as we have some new members.

In an attempt to justify it, um, Odo did you ever get round to watching it all? And Eldo did you ever get round to it at all? Baingil (wherever you've gone) did you watch it all after you dl it?

Don't know about Odo, but I did. Actually, I thought I emailed you or something to tell you. It was around the time you cut out the scene where Elrond recites the Ring poem, I think. Anyway, if I haven't replied (or have and you've forgotten), I did watch it all, and most of it I thought was spot on - or the very best that could have done with what you had to work with.

Btw I see you've made a new friend in Bree. Excellent! The fight goes on!

Greetings all, I was lead here from another forum by a trail of breadcrumbs, but I believe I may recognize a couple of voices.

So to get down to business:
Pettytyrant, I thoroughly enjoyed your megaedit on a single watch-through, but of course it raised a thousand questions, mostly quite niggley. I'd like to give you one "why did you..." and one "why didn't you..." and see if I can extrapolate from that.

When Frodo has just picked up the ring and is talking to Gandalf, why did you bother to remove the line, " he's gone to stay with the elves"? I don't see it as worse than any other part of PJ's rewrite of the dialog and far more useful than many.

Why didn't you remove the sequence below Weathertop when Strider presents the hobbits with ancient daggars/swords of Westernesse and the epic line, "These are for you." If that had just been left open, those of us who chose to could imagine the swords had been traveling with the ponies since they were given to the hobbits by Tom B.

That's probably enough for now.
Thanks,
David

G'day David, welcome to Forumshire. You're the second Bree-lander to come visitin' in the past week. I trust you'll catch up soon enough with Mrs Figg. She seems to have mellowed, too, which surprised me, perhaps minding her manners for the time being in a new forumland - but I don't expect that to last, hot blooded woman she is and all. Btw I love the bike! As to Petty's mega-edit. Be as cruel as you need to be, though he did do his best. (To be fair, he only had PJ's abomination to work with).

Um, thanks Orwell.

Good to see you here David, hope you pop by often, its a great place to be.

As to to your question. Well oddly enough Ringdrotten asked me the exact same one about 'he's gone to stay with the elves'- I'm not sure if this testament to the insidous nature of PJ's writng or not but I took it out for the very simpl reason that in the book Frodo doesn't know where Bilbo has gone, or even if he is alive still. Although Frodo continues to throw a birthday party in Bilbo's name he has no idea where he is, it was just a matter of keeping this in line with the book by removing that line. Frodo should not know where Bilbo has gone (nor should Gandalf yet as Bilbo hasn't made up his mind- he just wants to see mountains again).

Your second point I had never considered. (which is one of the reasons feedback is so welcome). When I did the edits I had a couple of aims, one was to restore them as close to the book as possible but another was to show that the films could still be watched, understood and accessible in that form to a viewer who has never seen the originals or even read the books. For that reason I left the sword giving in as its the only explanation PJ offers to why they are suddenly armed.
Whilst I'd be quite happy to imagine the swords had come from the Barrows as they should have, a new viewer watching them just as films would not know this.

Still it is a fair point David so I'll throw this one open for others to comment. What do you think regards the sword giving scene?

And thanks again for taking the time and effort David. Feel free to raise more points too.

Welcome, David

Petty - my thoughts on the sword scene: I wouldn't mind it if you cut that one out. Partly because I never liked it (ok, Aragorn could have brought the swords from Bree, but why didn't he give them to the hobbits earlier?), and partly because I think your edit is best enjoyed by those who have read the book, and they will probably understand why the hobbits have got swords. But then again, if you'd like to show the film to "non-readers" I'd say keep the scene, as it will be confusing without it. (Like you said, Petty, never ask a Norwegian, for he will say both yes and no )

Norwegans!
When Aragorn brings them the swords they are wrapped in cloth. In the book the rangers leave a stash of supplies- firewood and the like- for othe rangers, I think the implication was supposed to be the swords were pre stashed at Weathertop. Although that too does require book knowledge to piece together.

Thanks, that makes sense. To be clear, I'm not advocating any changes, I'm just asking questions to try to better understand the editorial choices.
It seems you tend to "rake out the bumps" while I tend to want to "fill in the pot-holes". Can I do an imaginary montage that lets me fill in the Old Forest, the Barrow Downs, Ghan and the Wildmen, for example? If not, it's a poor edit for me.

In the first case I raised, I always thought that Frodo already would have known that Bilbo was with the elves. In the book Frodo was a co-conspirator, enjoying the chaos of Bilbo's disappearance, and his main regret was that he hadn't returned in time to say goodbye. Maybe elves aren't explicitly stated, but where else would an elf-friend go when he's determined to take a vacation from his own kind?

But I think PJ didn't want Frodo's first actions to be "tricksy" from a point of character arc through the whole trilogy, so he left him ignorant and used it as a device for Gandalf to exposit and save voice-over narration. If I'm right then "he's gone to stay with the elves" does 2 things: it reassures Frodo that Bilbo isn't alone, which would be his first concern, and it lets the new viewer know that this is a world where people go to the elves like we might go to the beach.

On the other hand, with it removed, it leaves a little pothole where Frodo doesn't know Bilbo has support, and it also makes a visual/audio blip exactly as we are drawn to the focus of a defining scene. That's why I noticed it.

In the book Bilbo goes away and I even think he says it will be his last adventure. He is old and might die at any time. He also might live at the Lonely Mountain for all we know. He went off with some dwarves - which was sensible for a hobbit his age - and clearly maintained that friendhip. In a way, it was a surprise he ended up in Rivendell. I was pleasantly surprised when Frodo found him there - and still alive!