Re: Countdown to Release: Film 3 details revealed | SPOILER THREAD

[RA]

That's good that the Azog thing was fake. I thought that was too over the top to be true.
If the Second film is about the Desolation of Smaug, what's the third film going to be about?

[Eldorion]

I did a bit of poking around on TORn and it appears that while the Games Workshop list was fake the other action figure list is still being reported as true. That list, which was translated into English by a member of the TORn forums, still mentions zombie Azog.

TORn article

Translation of the supposedly reliable list

It was said that Azog the Desecrator fell many years ago in the great battle between the Orcs and the Dwarves. But now he appears again at the top of a deadly horde of killer orcs. For Gandalf begins a race against time because he has to figure out the connection between the most dangerous orc commander and the growing evil, which takes shape in the ruins of the fortress of Dol Guldur. One thing is totally clear: no one will deter Azog from his intention to destroy Thorin Oakenshield’s companions to the last dwarf.

I'd like to think that this isn't true but I'm waiting for either official word or until I actually see the movie myself to stop worrying about it.

[David H]

I'm resigned to this. The way I see it, PJ&Co couldn't figure out how to show a Necromancer without having him "necromance" something. So why not a famous dead Orc leader? And why not some Nazgul while he's at it? (leaving aside the minor detail that they weren't dead! )

That link gives a better translation than before. I was reassured to see this:

GIANT SPIDERS OF MIRKWOOD
In the course of many years, giant spiders nestled in the once peaceful Greenwood and helped [it get] the eerie name Mirkwood. It is believed that these creatures are the offspring of the monstrous Shelob the Great. They devour unfortunate travelers who go astray in the forest. But when the big spiders catch a company of dwarves in their webs, they suddenly have to deal with an unusual, unseen opponent whose sting is even longer than her own!

That sounds like a fair description of the last scene I was afraid they might muck up beyond recognition. So maybe not!

On the other hand there is this:

RADAGAST THE BROWN
Radagast is forgetful, seems to be slightly absent-minded and very eccentric. He talks preferably with animals than with people. As a magician colleague and friend of Gandalf the Grey Radagast is one of the guardians of the great forests of Middle-earth. Often you meet him on his walks through the woods near his strange little house called Rhosgobel. The little wizard senses impending doom, because not everything is as it should be in the dark corners of Mirkwood.

I'm not sure what his role is going to be, but I can't think of anybody who ought to be meeting him on walks. Certainly not the company! (I hope....)

[Orwell]

For the development of Sauron's character, why not have him see Galadriel and Gandalf holding hands, and his jealousy sets him on the path of forging a Ring as revenge. See, he's already forging an Engagement Ring but now puts all his malice and his will to dominate (Galadriel) in it! Perfik! This would (and I think even Mrs Figg would have to agree) still very much be in the spirit of what Tolkien intended.

[Eldorion]

I'm not sure what his role is going to be, but I can't think of anybody who ought to be meeting him on walks. Certainly not the company! (I hope....)

I don't recall if it was stated or not, but I'm pretty sure just based on the quote you gave that Radagast's home will be placed inside Mirkwood. I wouldn't be surprised if the Company meets him while they are travelling through the forest, although I suppose his appearance could be restricted to the White Council scenes. However, it's looking more and more likely that Mirkwood will be the setting for the climax of the first film, so they'll need to expand the events and the stakes considerably. Throwing Radagast in with the rest of them would be one way to do that.

[RA]

The point about Jackson and the Coven adding in a zombie because the Necromancer should "necromance" something makes way too much sense. I could see Jackson defending that choice to include zombies by that logic. "This Tolkien guy didn't even have the Necromancer use his powers!" he'd say.

TORn needs to have an outcry against this possibility. Jackson listens to them, maybe he'll confirm it or scrap it if he hears them.

[David H]

Eldo-" Throwing Radagast in with the rest of them would be one way to do that."

Well I suppose that would be OK as long as they do it in a way that Petty can cut him out again.

On a different subject, I notice that Warner Brothers only has 3 releases before The Hobbit. Dec 14.

These are:
Trouble with the Curve (Eastwood) Sept 21,
Argo (Affleck) Oct 12.
Cloud Atlas (Hanks) Oct 26.

They're all probably hoping for a little bit of Oscar buzz, and it wouldn't hurt them to build some popular buzz as well...
Like maybe a new Hobbit trailer? That's what I'd do if I were a distributor.

Are there any such rumors out there?

[Eldorion]

As I recall the word from Comic-Con is that the new trailer will hit some time in September. It's not necessarily going to be in front of a Warner Bros. movie though. For that matter, it'll probably premiere online before showing up in theatres, same as the first one.

[chris63]

[Eldorion]

I tried reading Sibley's guide to the LOTR trilogy but it was just embarrassing how excited he got about everything. Part of it was because he uses exclamation marks way too much. It might not be an entirely fair reaction but the tone was off-putting to me.

[Pettytyrant101]

Seems you are right Eldo about Azog- the zombie orc malarky comes from the WB character descriptions, not the GW list- so Galadriel in a barell and Dwalin on a cold drake is fortunetely out- zombie orcs are as of yet still in as far as we know.

[David H]

As I recall the word from Comic-Con is that the new trailer will hit some time in September. It's not necessarily going to be in front of a Warner Bros. movie though. For that matter, it'll probably premiere online before showing up in theatres, same as the first one.

Then I'm betting we see it on or before the 21st, so a little over two weeks.
Picking release dates is a science. They try to coordinate all the little details for their own advantage, without helping the competition more than necessary.

[Mrs Figg]

I like that description of Radagast and the big spiders.

Orwell, et tu Brute?

[Eldorion]

Seems you are right Eldo about Azog- the zombie orc malarky comes from the WB character descriptions, not the GW list- so Galadriel in a barell and Dwalin on a cold drake is fortunetely out- zombie orcs are as of yet still in as far as we know.

At least there is some consolation that we can take in all this.

[Eldorion]

Then I'm betting we see it on or before the 21st, so a little over two weeks.
Picking release dates is a science. They try to coordinate all the little details for their own advantage, without helping the competition more than necessary.

I think that you're probably right about the date. September is shaping up to be a pretty quiet month at the box office without any really major releases so I would think WB would like to help their own films as much as possible.

[Norc]

and where can I know discuss the Hobbit?

[Eldorion]

I made a special spoiler-free thread when you first raised this question, remember?

http://www.hobbitmovieforum.com/t437-the-hobbit-spoiler-free-discussion

[Norc]

... yeah.. but no one post there..

[chris63]

[chris63]

Peter Jackson accused of creative stagnation with third Hobbit film

http://www.examiner.com/article/peter-jackson-accused-of-creative-stagnation-with-third-hobbit-film?cid=db_articles

[Eldorion]

I'm not sure if it's so much that PJ "knows" he doesn't have anything else or if he's just really bad at saying goodbye to what he's familiar with. The Guardian's critic makes a few reasonable points, particularly about Jackson's other post-LOTR work, but I think he's reaching a bit. His jab at Middle-earth being "created as an escape" was rather silly too.

[Mrs Figg]

PJ if anything suffers from too many creative ideas and wants to stuff them all in, thats why he wants 3 films, and its not because he has reached stagnation point. This guy hasnt even seen the films yet so how he can make these claims is a bit odd. Maybe he is insinuating by going back to ME its not really going forward creatively, but within the Hobbit there will be a completely new set of creative ideas, there is Mirkwood, Dol Guldur, Smaug all these are new elements. I didnt like King Kong, and I didnt think Lovely Bones really delivered visually, but I find PJ still has one of the most visually attractive aesthetics today. along with GDT and Cuaron.

[Pettytyrant101]

Even I would have to say the the writer of that is presuming a lot and then drawing conclusions from those presumptions.
I think a lot of these films will suck from a purist stand point- but I at least base that on genuine news and I am still prepared to (hopefully) be proved wrong (but I doubt it).

I am not sure about PJ asethics being among the best Mrs Figg.
I think he is creative with his camera work, but the actual aesthetics of LotR's are in a large part down to the artists as well as (as with all films) the lighting people.
I did not find King Kong aesthetically pleasing at all but it still had plenty of clever camera work- which is more a PJ trade mark for me than the look.

[Mrs Figg]

All directors have a vast artistic team behind them, so you could say that about all of them, so thats not a valid argument. PJ in my opinion has not only the best team in the buisness but he also has the most creative vision, and I appreciate it the most. I also love Cuarons work on The Prisoner of Azkaban which was much more creative than the tired stuff Yates did later.

[Mrs Figg]

Heres some speculation done at TORn about the figurines character biographies Gandalf,

Description:
While accompanying the Company on the Quest, “Gandalf finds indication that the world could be haunted by an ancient evil. To get to the truth of the matter, Gandalf has to leave his companions to their own devices — his own path leads him into the darkest corners of Middle-earth, where he found his worst suspicions confirmed.”

Analysis and speculation:
‘Gandalf finds an indication that the world could be haunted by an ancient evil’ suggests, at the very least, that he comes across the Morgul blade (the ‘indication’), as shown in the footage at Cinema-Con in April, somewhere between Hobbiton and Rivendell.

It therefore seems plausible that the film will have the Dwarves pass through the Barrow-downs on their way between Hobbiton and the Trollshaws. This would mean including in the Hobbit a scene that was left out of the Fellowship of the Ring (FotR) film.

Doing this would not be unprecedented: Jackson has a track record of moving scenes and dialogue in, and between, films in the Lord of the Rings (LotR) trilogy. For instance, Old Man Willow appeared in The Two Towers (TTT) instead of FotR.

In Tolkien’s world, the Barrow-downs — located east of the Shire, but west of Bree — are places where the ancestors of the Edain (the (the three great Houses of Men that constitute the Dunedain) were buried long ago. The Witch King of Angmar (who later became the head of the Nazgul/ black riders) later sent evil spirits, called wights, to inhabit the barrows. In FotR, the four hobbits are trapped by these spirits in the Barrow-downs mists before being rescued by Tom Bombadil.

What is likely to therefore happen is this: the Company will travel through the Barrow-downs on their way from Hobbiton to the Trollshaws, and become trapped in the same manner as the Hobbits in FotR. Gandalf will likely rescue them, instead of Tom Bombadil

However, while they are there, Gandalf comes across a broken crypt, and in it the Morgul blade (in the FotR book, the Hobbits each take Dunedain blades from the barrow in which they are held by the wights). The writers could therefore be planning to turn the Barrow-downs from the burial site of the Dunedain that was infested with evil spirits sent by the Witch-King, to instead be the place where the Dunedain had entombed the Witch-King long ago. Gandalf finds the tomb broken, and thus he is alerted to an evil haunting the world, which leads to the discussion of the Morgul blade at Rivendell during the meeting of the White Council.

From a pacing perspective, including the Barrow-downs scene here would be a good addition to the Hobbit, as in the book basically nothing happens between leaving Hobbiton to arriving at the Trollshaws. Bear in mind this is roughly the same journey as taken by the Hobbits in FotR, but in that film they passed through farmland, the ferry, Bree, the Midgewater Marshes and Weathertop.

Jackson therefore has the challenge of indicating the journey is still that far and on the same route without the journey feeling repetitive. This means they may have to travel through the Old Forest, the Barrow-downs to give a sense of the journey being arduous and long. I’d wager that Bree itself might get a cameo, as a nod to the appendices, in which Tolkien writes that the Quest for Erebor is hatched through a fortuitous meeting between Gandalf and Thorin in the Prancing Pony, a meeting that ultimately leads to the formation of the Company some time later