Re: Countdown to Release | SPOILER THREAD

[Ringdrotten]

Maybe you're right Come december and we'll know at last! Maybe he hasn't shat it all out

[Eldorion]

Don't get me wrong, I want to enjoy the movies, but I'm not going to try to make myself like them if I don't think they're good. I hope that the negativity is just the result of having too little to go on and too much time to talk about it, but we'll see.

[Pettytyrant101]

Since then we seem to have taken a turn for the cynical, except for Petty, who has of course been a cynic since the very beginning.- Eldo

Ahead of the pack Eldo that's all - its the buckie, lets you see things as they really are in their true form- PJ is a fraudster incase you are wondering.

[Eldorion]

I still need to go back and do a full write-up of my impressions of the Comic-Con reports but in the meantime there is still more information coming out. TORn pointed out this little nugget in an interview PJ and Andy Serkis did with Collider.

http://collider.com/peter-jackson-martin-freeman-the-hobbit-interview/180675/

JACKSON: The technology that advanced the most, in the last 10 or 12 years, is really the fact that we did a lot of miniature shooting on The Lord of the Rings. All the big architectural structures of Middle Earth were really miniatures, some of them quite large. But, you’re limited to what you can do with a miniature because you literally have to have a big camera that has to sweep past it, so you can’t get too close to it and the detail doesn’t hold up too well, if you do. This time around, there are no miniatures. It’s all done with CGI. Everything that we need to build, from a miniature point of view, we build as a CG miniature. I can now swoop in, over rooftops and through doorways. I can do things that I never could have dreamt of doing with the miniatures. For me, that’s actually one of the most profound differences. Gollum has more muscles in his face than he did, 12 years ago. Hopefully, Andy [Serkis] has made those muscles work in a brilliant way. We deliberately made Gollum look very similar to how he did because we wanted consistency through the films. WETA Digital, who do the work, have subsequently been working on Avatar and built a very sophisticated motion-capture facial system, and Gollum inherited some of the technological advances of that.

I'm excited about how the changes in CGI technology will reflect in the films but I'm a little uncertain about this. I'm sure what Weta will be at the top of their game and after both LOTR and Avatar no one can question that they are among the best effects houses in terms of CGI. However, many of my favorite effects shots from LOTR were done with miniatures and I had hoped they would go that route again. The CGI in LOTR is very good and still holds up today, but it is starting to look a little dated. I don't know if this will happen to Avatar as well, but using physical models gives a different feel to the films. Perhaps PJ will make the CGI miniatures work just as well, but I worry what exactly he will have dreamed up in the last 12 years. If King Kong is any indication, it won't all be enjoyable to me.

Who knows though? Maybe CGI has crossed the threshold where it's just as good as miniatures. As with all my doubts, I'd love to be proven wrong.

[Ally]

Yeah apart from the green screen in Gondor at the end- so realistic that was


Also if there is new footage that I can see on my computer send it to me

Personally I think Peter Jackson is such a good director he doesn't really need to stick to the book that much anyway, I mean he supposedly didn't with LOTR, and that's one of my favourite films- obviously a genius of creativity!

[Mrs Figg]

Its funny, I love LOTR and want to like The Hobbit as well, but all the news I read seems to make me less and less able to believe this film is going to be any good. It seems cheap and nasty in a strange way. I dont mean its going to be less of a professional job, thats a given, but the content seems a bit, well tawdry a bit obviously pandering to the youth market at the expense of something classic. Tauriel is a classic example, she is solely there as eye candy, nothing else, and her looks are pretty but pedestrian, she is not nor ever could look like an Elf. The whole shebang is making me have very low expectations.

[Ally]

Didn't they do the same thing with expanding Arwen's role in the films? It's not necessarily a bad thing, as long as it is done nicely and doesn't jarr the narrative. I think new characters which fit in with the overall thematic structure that the film is aiming for won't impact on the film negatively at all!

Now is there any new footage that I can see

[Pettytyrant101]

Peter Jackson is such a good director he doesn't really need to stick to the book that much anyway- Ally

Why bother then? Why wreck and deface someone elses work? Why not come up with his own original fantasy film and bugger off and make it instead rather than pissing all over Tolkiens memory? Or could it be Tolkiens name and the name of LotR's meant boxoffice gold when a PJ only creation of shallow characters and non-stop cgi would die a deserved death?

Eldo on the minautures thing- I for one am very sorry to see them go- I always feel the best of both worlds is models enhanced by cgi- look at the Star Trek films- you watch the older films- Motion Picture is a good example- the ship looks somehow more real, more solid, than its modern cgi counterparts. There is something about having to use a real camera not a virtual one, something about how light acts on a real physical object cgi does not quite capture. Enhance with cgi by all means but getting rid of the minatures altogether- not sure about that at all.

Mrs Figg- I thought he did this in LotR's so I'm not the least suprised following its success that he feels unrestrained in a way he did not doing LotR's- him and his partners in crime also now seem convinced if the mutter the words 'spirit of Tolkien' it covers any obsceneit y to his work.

I feel another crabbit attack coming on- more buckie nurse!

[David H]

The whole shebang is making me have very low expectations.

But low expectations are your best friend whenever it comes to hollywood adaptations of well-loved books. It's the only way I was able to enjoy Jackson's LotR and so many other movies that I'd known as books first. If I find I can't set my expectations low enough, I won't even watch the movie.

Hanging out here with Petty's cynicism is a kind immersion of therapy for me. I can't think of a better way to set my expectations so low that it'll be almost impossible to be disappointed by anything PJ could do.

Out of curiosity, what were your expectations going into Jackson's Fellowship of the Ring, Mrs Figg?

[Eldorion]

I have a custom title in mind for Ally that I think is quite fitting but I'm not sure if it would count as tyranny to give it to her without warning.

[Eldorion]

Eldo on the minautures thing- I for one am very sorry to see them go- I always feel the best of both worlds is models enhanced by cgi- look at the Star Trek films- you watch the older films- Motion Picture is a good example- the ship looks somehow more real, more solid, than its modern cgi counterparts. There is something about having to use a real camera not a virtual one, something about how light acts on a real physical object cgi does not quite capture. Enhance with cgi by all means but getting rid of the minatures altogether- not sure about that at all.

Agreed, and I think they did this very well on LOTR too.

[Eldorion]

Its funny, I love LOTR and want to like The Hobbit as well, but all the news I read seems to make me less and less able to believe this film is going to be any good. It seems cheap and nasty in a strange way. I dont mean its going to be less of a professional job, thats a given, but the content seems a bit, well tawdry a bit obviously pandering to the youth market at the expense of something classic. Tauriel is a classic example, she is solely there as eye candy, nothing else, and her looks are pretty but pedestrian, she is not nor ever could look like an Elf. The whole shebang is making me have very low expectations.

I have similar worries. I was never actually chomping at the bit for a Hobbit film because I felt that the whimsical side of the book wouldn't translate well on screen, at least not given people's post-LOTR expectations, but also that PJ wouldn't even try to do that. (One wonders why I've spent so much time on Hobbit forums in light of this. ) I do really hope that the films are great because I love LOTR even with all its flaws, but I can't shake the feeling that it's going to be a mess. I've come to terms with the book being stretched into two films but I don't think that decision was made for the right reasons and I'm still less than thrilled about the White Council being added. The trailer gave me hope, but I still have the same worry that I did four years ago that The Hobbit will be an ugodly hybrid of children's literature whimsy and LOTR-esque seriousness. Like how Tom Bombadil would have been if PJ had kept him.

[Mrs Figg]

well Dave, I had no expectations really. I had always loved the books and I went to see FOTR and was blown away having read nothing about it before hand. I did notice the changes and missing bits like the Old Forest to Bree part (my favourite in the whole books) and that did cheese me off somewhat, but I had never been on a forum and was a bit of an innocent I guess. I just loved it without any deeper thought or analysis. I only started with foruming when they started with the Hobbit news, and gradually I have become more cynical towards things. I can thankfully still enjoy LOTR when I watch it and still think its brilliant and it still makes me blub. I look at it as good entertainment and dont take it too seriously. No matter how silly things get I will probably enjoy the Hobbit films ride for what it is, high quality entertainment, it aint Tolkien really, its very loosely based on Tolkien, when I want the real thing I read the books.

[Eldorion]

Don't worry Mrs Figg, spending enough time on forums will eventually make you hate everything about humanity and all we have produced.

{{{I kid ... I love you guys. And I agree with Dave about deliberately lowering expectations for such anticipated movies.}}}

[Mrs Figg]

I guess I could sleep through it lulled by Howards lovely music and then I could dream its like I imagined it

[Pettytyrant101]

Strangely enough I went into FotR full of high expectations, and worse, the certain belief they would be met.
It was a director I had spent many years of my youth telling anyone who woud listen that he was a genius. I even (Eru forgive me) thought Boyen could write a bit (I had seen the film they did based on the two Australian school grils that committed a murder and thought it excellent) and assurances were ringing in my ears it was Tolkien to the core with ommissions only where necessary for adapting- they had got two of my favourite Tolkien artists to design the look- they even cast Ian Holm who I loved in the BBC radio production, and Sir Ian and Sean Bean seemed inspired casting (those two I still think that, despite some gripes with the portrayals, Gandalf in particular)- no I went in all innocence and full of expetactions of sheer unadultrated joy for the next 3 hours.
That'll teach me to let my crabbit guard down.

[David H]

I went in all innocence and full of expetactions of sheer unadultrated joy for the next 3 hours.
That'll teach me to let my crabbit guard down.

What a tragic image: an innocent, optimistic Scotshobbit parting with a few coins to see a long-anticipated movie, entering the theater like a lamb going to the slaughter.....
and emerging 3 hours later as a charred ember of himself.

I admire optimism, but never, never, NEVER let your guard down!

[David H]

well Dave, I had no expectations really. I had always loved the books and I went to see FOTR and was blown away having read nothing about it before hand. I did notice the changes and missing bits like the Old Forest to Bree part (my favourite in the whole books) and that did cheese me off somewhat, but I had never been on a forum and was a bit of an innocent I guess. I just loved it without any deeper thought or analysis. I only started with foruming when they started with the Hobbit news, and gradually I have become more cynical towards things. I can thankfully still enjoy LOTR when I watch it and still think its brilliant and it still makes me blub. I look at it as good entertainment and dont take it too seriously. No matter how silly things get I will probably enjoy the Hobbit films ride for what it is, high quality entertainment, it aint Tolkien really, its very loosely based on Tolkien, when I want the real thing I read the books.

That sounds very well balanced and open minded, Mrs Figg. I predict that you'll enjoy the Hobbit movie every bit as much as you did LotR, despite all.

[Pettytyrant101]

never, never, NEVER let your guard down! -David

The lesson was learnt Dave, believe me, it was learnt. Rule One- PJ lies.

[Tinuviel]

Coming into Comic Con, my expectations were pretty low because of what I heard from Cinema Con. So when the recap of the footage came out, I was slightly pleased with it. I liked how people laughed at certain parts, which shows that there's still some lightness to it (regardless if it's appropriately placed). I don't entriely mind material being pulled from out of UT and the appendices, because I think that's the beauty of making a book into a movie: you can show more. Of course, I'll cringe at certain parts, but I'm just keeping my expectations as low as dirt, so I can enjoy whatever I hear or see

[RA]

I think, in general, posting on forums about anything can cause one to enjoy the end result less than if one went into a movie or a game (or what have you) with no prior knowledge.

That said, I only post in forums about things I have more than a passing interest in. What happens in Middle Earth concerns me!

[chris63]

http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Hobbit-Brings-Riddles-Danger-Fainting-More-Comic-Con-31936.html

[chris63]

[Pettytyrant101]

'The first scene of the footage features all of the dwarfs convening in Bilbo’s house discussing whether or not they should make the trip to the Lonely Mountain to try and get the treasure that Smaug stole from their ancestors. Though there is some question, Thorin Oakenshield (Armitage) manages to get everyone to agree to go with a stirring speech.'

Mmm, but Gandalf puts the mark on Bilbos door to tell Thorin and others thats the house of the burglar they are to go to to hire for the job. If they havn't even decided to go before they get to Bilbo's whats the mark for? Good sandwich maker?

'but the room goes silent as Gandalf stands and bellows, controlling the entire room with his voice.'

Seems a bit melodramatic. He does flare up at Thorin in the UT account but this seems an attempt to recapture, or echo the scene with Bilbo in FotR to me.

'things get much worse from there as he reads about the potential laceration and incineration that may result from the trip. He begins to feel faint and Bofur (James Nesbitt) hops up to make things worse. As Bilbo starts to swoon, Bofur talks about being set on fire and being turned to ash, which promptly causes the hobbit to fall to the floor. '

So putting aside what will probably be some painful, clumsy PJ humour Bilbo swoons at the thought of the terrible things which might happen to him, read out as a big comical list. This is typical of how they write. In the book Bilbo passes out when Thorin says of him "if he returns at all". PJ takes this one thing and ladles it on to tedium.

'Kicking off with Gandalf riding a horse across a desert'
Harad?!!

'Gandalf is getting ready to enter some catacombs and is told by a bystander that it might be a trap. Gandalf tells his friend to leave as “it’s undoubtedly a trap.”

Radagast surely? Why would a 'bystander' just handily be about a tomb to talk to Gandalf? As to the standard of dialogue....

'Smeagol then begins to talk to himself (as he has been known to do), leading Bilbo to become confused'

This is the bit about that scene which troubles me.

'She (Galadriel) responds in Elvish, “If you should ever need my help, I will come.”
"Use the bat signal."

'It then quickly cuts back to Smeagol’s cave where Bilbo discovers the One Ring, and then a confrontation between Bilbo and Gandalf. The wizard remarks that the hobbit has changed, to which the hobbit has an answer. “. “I was going to tell you,” he says as he begins to reach into his pocket. “I found something in the goblin tunnels.” He pauses and takes his fingers out of his pocket “…My courage.” Gandalf smiles and responds, “Good, that’s good, You’ll need it.”

I am wondering if in PJ's Bilbo will actually tell the others about the Ring at all.
According to Gandalf he did, he told them all that Smeagol had offered it as his prize in the riddle game, and when he went to get it Bilbo realised he already had it so really it was his fair and square, he had already won it. This of course is Bilbo putting his claim to the Ring beyond doubt same as Smeagol did calling it his birthday present.
I suspect PJ's Bilbo will keep it a secret throughout. It is worth noting however that even later editions of TH don't entirely match up with Gandalfs version of events but you would think given everything else this is one thing you would bring into line with LotR's- Bilbo original lie about the Ring- why change it?

"and a sled being pulled by massive rabbits."



"The footage concluded with a shot of Legolas (Orlando Bloom) pulling out an arrow and pointing it straight in Thorin’s face. "

[Pettytyrant101]

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/57079

Detailed account of the footage shown.

'The final day of shooting involved Mirkwood, with crazy twisted trees. Gandalf says, “I need a horse!” Someone asks, “Where are you going!?!” “In search of answers!”

This raises a few questions- Gandalf leaves them before they enter Mirkwood, they are on their own with the magic stream and spiders. And even assuming it is on the edge of Mirkwood are they going to bring Shadowfax back into it I wonder- a horse he does not get in the book until his escape from Orthanc. And answers to what at this point? This is just after Bilbo gets the Ring and the Beorn stuff, I hope its not connected to the Ring in any way.

'especially Bilbo who is eavesdropping the whole conversation doesn’t realize Gandalf’s about to pull him into the adventure.'

Why is Bilbo eavesdropping? The dwarves are there believing he is a burglar for hire, they would expect him to be in on the ocnversation not eavesdropping it.

'James Nesbitt’s Bofur then excitedly starts talking about the dragon. “Think furnace with wings!”

I think I'm going to hate his character, I feel like I do already.

'Radagast the Brown as played by Sylvester “I’m a Timelord” McCoy. We see him nursing a hedgehog back to life. He’s a ratty figure, long dark beard, side of his head covered in bird poop, big (but not pointy) hat and wooden staff. There was a second shot with him as he lifted his hat and let a few birds fly under it.'



'What was interesting for me in this sequence was seeing how they divided up the scene between Gollum and Smeagol. Gollum wants to eat this hobbit, Smeagol seems overjoyed at having a bit of intelligent company.....(Gollum to Smeagol) And if it loses, what then? (Smeagol to Gollum) If it loses, precious, then we eats it! (Smeagol to Bilbo, matter of factly) If Baggins loses we eats it whole.” Martin Freeman holds this moment, milking it for an appropriate amount of laughs before going “Fair enough”

An appropriate amount of laughs? And the Smeagol/Gollum thing, so clumsy.

'or the red-headed Tauriel (Evangeline Lily) slicing up some Orcs or Legolas doing a slide through the leaves in Mirkwood, aiming an elvish arrow at our dwarves'

So it is Xena Princess of Elves then and more ridiculous acts from Legolas than you can shake a mumakil at.

'a Stone Giant (literally a man-shaped mountain-sized figure) tossing a giant boulder at the fellowship of dwarves on a rainy mountain ridge'

He couldn't resist could he.